HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

relax Josh (at the far end of the seated panel)…..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws5fopAIH5U#t=44m40s

as the astute colorist, Fernando, seated next to you with the Spanish accent later indicated, many people (for that matter, in all aspects of life’s endeavors) have to work within budgets

plus Alexis’s (the panelist with the light colored jacket) project might not have had as much of a difference in aesthetics if he had had access to Dolby Vision v.4 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post16322429

A deeper dive into a workflow for HDR grading not covered during the ^ panel discussion…..start with the camera raw and then translate it into a working space using for instance Rec. 2020 color primaries with PQ transfer function or ACEScc, in essence, creating an analogous interpositive (celluloid world terminology used by Josh earlier in the panel discussion).

Once the HDR grade is finished, the colorist can then either render it out as a master and bring it back in as pre-rendered video, or move right on to the Dolby Vision grade using your existing HDR timeline –

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Yes, that's why people complained that they couldn't see anything, missing the Starbucks coffee cup.

I didn't know they had those during the dragons era.

It was a mistake, HBO fessed up, Daenerys had ordered an herbal tea.
Question is, how do all the fans know it was not a craft services cup.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

This morning someone sent me this ‘creative license’ picture I think as a result of your Chuck Norris contributions to this thread:

Don, Jerry, Kelly, Tom.
Chuck, James, George, ...
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhug.../#2bd8315932f3

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The fact that Kris, you and others got decent images kinda blows to bits the theory offered online as to the culprit of the issue being the colorist having screwed up the grade.

So most people's TVs are shit and/or aren't set up correctly. Who knew?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So most people's TVs are shit and/or aren't set up correctly. Who knew?

It’s a bit more complicated than that so I wouldn’t be so quick as to throw the typical TV owner under the bus, for I said ‘decent’, not, very good imagery (cause it was too dark, waaay too long, needed at least a little more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c6HSbI2Jm0#t=1s) and the struggling dull/artifactual picture quality that people received the day of the original airing, even those viewing on properly calibrated TVs, related to inevitable network bandwidth issue was another inherent problem with the episode.

I notice one the journos some of you guys reference from time to time has belatedly entered the root cause fray - https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#5bd8a27e77c6

[Penton-Man]

meanwhile....http://www.cinegearexpo.com/la-expo-special-screenings

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

It’s a bit more complicated than that so I wouldn’t be so quick as to throw the typical TV owner under the bus, for I said ‘decent’, not, very good imagery (cause it was too dark, waaay too long, needed at least a little more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c6HSbI2Jm0#t=1s) and the struggling dull/artifactual picture quality that people received the day of the original airing, even those viewing on properly calibrated TVs, related to inevitable network bandwidth issue was another inherent problem with the episode.

I notice one the journos some of you guys reference from time to time has belatedly entered the root cause fray - https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#5bd8a27e77c6

I would. I don't doubt that this was plainly too dark and that the encoding was living down to its usual low, low standard for broadcast TV but most people don't have a clue about how to set up their TVs properly either. It was the perfect storm of a shit source, a shit transmission and a shit display (in terms of the set's quality, its set-up, or both). Take either one of the latter two out of the equation and I'm sure more people would've got on just fine with it, but as it is? I'm so not surprised it's caused the brouhaha that it has.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The fact that Kris, you and others got decent images kinda blows to bits the theory offered online as to the culprit of the issue being the colorist having screwed up the grade.

It would be to the creators benefit, if they were to inform the viewer on what is the optimal preset for their content. Although, the display manufacturers are behind pushing standard mode with blue used to increase brightness and over saturated colors. Today LCD models have a high backlight setting, pushing the display well above SDR content mastered to 100 nits.

My brother has very little knowledge about picture settings and how they affect overall PQ.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

It would be to the creators benefit, if they were to inform the viewer on what is the optimal preset for their content.

I thought that was the whole point of Dolby Vision mode. So that the un-knowledgeable viewer can set one mode and know they are getting the best possible picture.

But then along comes "Dolby Vision Vivid", surely the antithesis of everything Dolby Vision was supposed to be about. And don't forget the "Netflix mode" as well (!).

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I notice one the journos some of you guys reference from time to time has belatedly entered the root cause fray - https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#5bd8a27e77c6

The lack of HDR and, especially, 4K resolution support for Game Of Thrones on any of the platforms where it can be watched has actually been an oft-discussed bone of contention among AV fans for a number of seasons now.

Wrong way around. That should read "The lack of 4K and especially HDR".

[Geoff D]

Eh, shows where his priorities lie. More pixels wouldn't have made an iota of a difference to how oppressively dark this now-infamous ep of GoT is. (For reference, while I like Big John he's not exactly my go-to journo for the most insightful take on the state of UHD. I mean, I don't 'follow' anyone at all aside from checking the HDTVtest YT channel from time to time, but I definitely wouldn't take every word of Archer's as gospel.)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

....It was the perfect storm of a shit source, a shit transmission and a shit display (in terms of the set's quality, its set-up, or both). Take either one of the latter two out of the equation and I'm sure more people would've got on just fine with it,

I wouldn’t be so sure about that Geoff. For example, this feedback was not an uncommon comment from some of those in the industry viewing on properly calibrated TV/monitors –

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Wrong way around. That should read "The lack of 4K and especially HDR".

agreed

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Eh, shows where his priorities lie. More pixels wouldn't have made an iota of a difference to how oppressively dark this now-infamous ep of GoT is....

and if he fancies himself as a good investigative journalist he really should dig deeper into what specific encoders the content provider used, rather than pushing that pixel narrative

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

I cannot wait to see what they do to with the Venice,

follow-up to yesterday’s above heads-up (post# 9349) to the Cine Gear screening, which at that time had yet to have been announced
if you check the link again, today, it has now been listed…..Wine Country (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8169446...ef_=tt_dt_spec )

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’d like to hear someone attending the 8K event that Robert is a panelist on ask the panel if they think viewers will see a superior picture in 1080p120 than either 4k or 8k at 60fps for sports, as sports are a big driver of selling new TVs

and it’s icing on the cake when miracles happen

Anfield erupts! Amazing scenes as Liverpool reach the Champions League final with stunning comeback! - YouTube

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

I thought that was the whole point of Dolby Vision mode. So that the un-knowledgeable viewer can set one mode and know they are getting the best possible picture.

But then along comes "Dolby Vision Vivid", surely the antithesis of everything Dolby Vision was supposed to be about. And don't forget the "Netflix mode" as well (!).

Dolby tried to set that standard, but display manufacturers made the push for Vivid modes.

Using Movie mode and a lower gamma setting would fix or should fix any PQ issues. Some manufacturers "out of the box", gamma setting, can be a little aggressive on the low end of the curve.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

this feedback was not an uncommon comment from some of those in the industry viewing on properly calibrated TV/monitors –

“My guess is that particularly dark scenes don’t play nice….”
That's a bingo

[Penton-Man]

^ https://www.siminternational.com/staff/arthur-ditner/

[Penton-Man]

Where’s PeterTHX?

Ears up, Floyd and others presenting –