HDR Discussion Thread

[PaulGo]

I remember (as most of you) Panasonic Plasma TVs which I though delivered an outstanding picture. Due to economic and technical reasons Panasonic decided to abandon the technology. The same happened with Samsung DLP TVs. All technologies have a life span (even CRT TVs).

[sapiendut]

Sure... when there is something better the technology will be abandoned. Currently there is nothing is better yet and all manufacturers already have the OLED production ready for 2020.

[ROSS.T.G.]

I find that hard to believe, they are extremely popular. Even if it was true, I’ll be holding on to my OLED like people held on to their Kuro’s. Until it dies.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

I find that hard to believe, they are extremely popular. Even if it was true, I’ll be holding on to my OLED like people held on to their Kuro’s. Until it dies.

That's very good what you've just said. In video forums many people are still happy with their Pioneer Kuro plasma 1080p TVs. And how many years it has been since Pioneer stopped production?

I think we are going to see a similar phenomena with LG OLED TVs when they stop making those panels. ...And other brands using those same panels.

The question is: How much more life is there in OLED?
Me I have zero clue...it all depends of how long it would take till improvements are to a standstill, and of how long till other technologies take over.
The article Paul posted reflects in part on this aspect.

HDR is @ its best appearance (most comfortable zone) when fully rendering its optimal potential. ...Highest nits.
If you compare last year's OLED models with this year's models it gives us an idea of where things are going.

Anyway it's my own view, my own interpretation.
I could be wrong and it wouldn't be a cataclysm.

Front projectors need all the HDR help they can get, same as OLED.
And front projectors aren't prone to burn-in issues...only the bulbs...not the displays.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Sure... when there is something better the technology will be abandoned. Currently there is nothing is better yet and all manufacturers already have the OLED production ready for 2020.

As long as burn-in issues remain and light output is still low in comparison to other technologies, not to mention the lifespan of certain colors of OLED lasting longer than others...I'm not interested.

[iaragorn1]

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real...d-burn-in-test

They don't expect most people to have a problem with burn in.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

1000 nits post calibration not bright enough for you?

Not when my set can do 2000

Originally Posted by iaragorn1

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real...d-burn-in-test

They don't expect most people to have a problem with burn in.

I'm not "most people" - games, letterboxed movies, PC desktop, etc.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

DanBa, you should do one of those for streamers and disc players

Sorry, more time should be required, and for the time being I am busy with some works.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Not when my set can do 2000



I'm not "most people" - games, letterboxed movies, PC desktop, etc.

When you're spending literally thousands on a TV you should be able to watch whatever the heck you like. If you have to baby the TV then it isn't fit for purpose.

We have a slight screen burn logo on our TV and we now only watch Movies and TV. No news channels, no games, nothing with any static logos.
Brilliant image but I will be glad when we eventually upgrade to MicroLED.

[sapiendut]

Yes and no. OLED is like a performance car. You can spend hundreds of thousands for a Huracan, and you can’t take it offroading.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Yes and no. OLED is like a performance car. You can spend hundreds of thousands for a Huracan, and you can’t take it offroading.

So news channels are unreasonable viewing? I have the YouTube logo burnt into the picture. Is YouTube unreasonable viewing? Especially seeing as the YT app comes with the TV.

[sapiendut]

I’m actually very confused why YT and NEws channel can have that much of an impact. I use a Pana FZ1000 OLED and watch a load of YT and CNN-style news channel (CP24 channel in Canada). I calibrate my TV. And still to this day I don’t have any burn-in.

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

I remember (as most of you) Panasonic Plasma TVs which I though delivered an outstanding picture. Due to economic and technical reasons Panasonic decided to abandon the technology. The same happened with Samsung DLP TVs. All technologies have a life span (even CRT TVs).

Plasma TV production ended for a couple reasons, but mostly because of CA stricter Engenry Star restrictions as they draw more current then LCD displays. The second reason was the manufacturing cost was significantly higer than LCD panel costs.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

As long as burn-in issues remain and light output is still low in comparison to other technologies, not to mention the lifespan of certain colors of OLED lasting longer than others...I'm not interested.

Please consider that although it's true that some LCD TVs can deliver close to 2k Nits vs, OLED that is about 840 Nits, it's the contrast ratio that that delivers the most pleasing and dynamic HDR image and OLED is the clear winner.

Only OLED TVs that start the dynamic tonal range at 0 luminance and when you see an HDR image that starts with a pure black floor and goes up to OLED's peak luminance the image pop and realistic look outperforms any LCD TV, even the one or two that can almost reach 2k Nits.

OLED's emissive technology has no halo or glow around bright objects displayed against a dark background and owners enjoy pure black CinemaScope cropping bars and much better off axis performance vs. all LCD displays.

Originally Posted by spider-neil

So news channels are unreasonable viewing? I have the YouTube logo burnt into the picture. Is YouTube unreasonable viewing? Especially seeing as the YT app comes with the TV.

You can watch news channels, YouTube and other content with static logos with an OLED TV. What you should not do is watch content with the same static logo for more than 2 hrs every day and not watch other content.

The proof is that the vast majority of OLED TV owners do not have burn-in.

With all this said, OLED is not for everyone and cost more than most LCD TVs.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

You can watch news channels, YouTube and other content with static logos with an OLED TV. What you should not do is watch content with the same static logo for more than 2 hrs every day and not watch other content.

The proof is that the vast majority of OLED TV owners do not have burn-in.

With all this said, OLED is not for everyone and cost more than most LCD TVs.

You can only take my word for it, but you won't believe how much I've babied my TV to still have screen burn-in. The YT logo is on the search screen so you can imagine that the logo is on screen for minutes, if not seconds at a time.
Good luck to the people that have no problems, I have burn-in despite going out of my way to avoid it and going so far as to not even watch news channels or play and games.

As a side note, I could have gotten panel changed as the exchange of panel was approved but I would have lost 3D and 3D on a passive OLED screen is even better than movies and my burn-in is minor and not even noticeable on 90% of content.

[Robert Zohn]

Try running the clear panel noise app to clean the screen. Which OLED TV do you own?

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Try running the clear panel noise app to clean the screen. Which OLED TV do you own?

Definitely screen burn-in. The YT logo is bright red so it has eaten away at the peak brightness for the red pixels.

LG OLED 65GV

If LG really wanted to help prevent screen burn-in would be to give the user the ability to manually select an area of the screen and then dim that area.
For example, if you were watching Sky, you create a rectangle and then drag it over the new bar and then dim that area. Problem solved.

OLED gives a brilliant image but screen burn is a major pain.
I had a plasma screen for 10 years and had no problems and I was using it as a computer monitor. If I used my OLED as a computer monitor I'd destroy it in a month.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Please consider that although it's true that some LCD TVs can deliver close to 2k Nits vs, OLED that is about 840 Nits, it's the contrast ratio that that delivers the most pleasing and dynamic HDR image and OLED is the clear winner.

Only OLED TVs that start the dynamic tonal range at 0 luminance and when you see an HDR image that starts with a pure black floor and goes up to OLED's peak luminance the image pop and realistic look outperforms any LCD TV, even the one or two that can almost reach 2k Nits.

OLED's emissive technology has no halo or glow around bright objects displayed against a dark background and owners enjoy pure black CinemaScope cropping bars and much better off axis performance vs. all LCD displays.

While good contrast is a fundamental cornerstone in getting good HDR, it's disingenuous to claim that it is the only thing needed for good HDR because it's a system built that is built around absolute luminance. That's a fact, and all these things like dynamic metadata and HDR Optimisers are merely agents of compromise when you really stand back and analyse them.

The same is very much true in the reverse though, that it's not solely about high luminance either, and contrast is perhaps still the most important part of the equation but this is why having a combination of great contrast and great brightness unfettered by ASBL and ABL is the utimate goal for HDR and is why I wouldn't trade my ZD9 for anything right now; I'd rather have good contrast and great luminance rather than great contrast and good luminance. Of course it's flawed up the wazoo, it's an LCD TV, but time after time after time I keep watching stuff on it and it still takes my breath away (do I get a point for a Top Gun reference?), it's extraordinary how over-engineered this TV was at the time.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

While good contrast is a fundamental cornerstone in getting good HDR, it's disingenuous to claim that it is the only thing needed for good HDR because it's a system built that is built around absolute luminance. That's a fact, and all these things like dynamic metadata and HDR Optimisers are merely agents of compromise when you really stand back and analyse them.

The same is very much true in the reverse though, that it's not solely about high luminance either, and contrast is perhaps still the most important part of the equation but this is why having a combination of great contrast and great brightness unfettered by ASBL and ABL is the utimate goal for HDR and is why I wouldn't trade my ZD9 for anything right now; I'd rather have good contrast and great luminance rather than great contrast and good luminance. Of course it's flawed up the wazoo, it's an LCD TV, but time after time after time I keep watching stuff on it and it still takes my breath away (do I get a point for a Top Gun reference?), it's extraordinary how over-engineered this TV was at the time.

Poor old Z9D. Must be getting real lonely at the top by now after 3 years (and counting)...

Even when I do the inevitable upgrade, which I have a feeling won't be for a while and will be either a Sony Mini or MicroLED since I have lost all hope in Sony's future for LCDs (mainly due to X-wide angle), it will be a long time before I part with my 75Z9D. I can't see myself getting rid of that one, it's my pride and joy!

And this is no OLED diss or anything. I would love to add (not having it replace anything) the A9G to my Sony familia if I had another room to spare.

[Geoff D]

And that's not to say that I'm discounting OLED completely as a future purchase, the newest Pannys would require some serious consideration if my Zed blew up tomorrow. But equally I'm keeping my eye on the state of other tech too, I think my dream would be a double-panel LCD from Sony. I know everyone's waiting on these mini/micro LED thingies but I'm sure I'd be able to make do with an LCD that had a million-to-one contrast and what is essentially a two-million-zone 'backlight', you dig?

Yes, I know 4K OLEDs have eight million 'zones' but how much content actually goes down to the single pixel level in 1080p, never mind 4K? Even an FALD LCD with a few thousand zones and a smarter dimming algorithm (one that could perhaps dial down the aggressiveness of the dimming when it sense a fade in/down, which is the main thing that still trips up the Zed, causing backlight 'blobbing' in certain shots in certain movies) would cover most of the foibles that FALD dimming has.

[DJR662]

I read about this dual stacked LCD tech. It sure seems very interesting but I don't think we'll be seeing this in stores in the near future. Although Hisense is apparently releasing their ULED XD in China, so who knows what might happen when/if other manufacturers follow suit...