HDR Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

The Kaleidescape downloads are approximately the same file size as a physical disc.

Kaleidescape makes the claim their HD downloads are bit for bit the same as Blu-ray disc, never heard the same for UHD Blu-ray disc. That would explain why they do their own UHD titles.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Kaleidescape makes the claim their HD downloads are bit for bit the same as Blu-ray disc, never heard the same for UHD Blu-ray disc. That would explain why they do their own UHD titles.

That Kaleidescape Rep said that their File Sizes can be bigger than UHD Discs, because the biggest UHD Disc is limited to 100Gigs while theirs can go up way pass that limit. So making Kaleidescape Downloads better than UHD Discs.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’ve read this paper from the SID 2019 (June) Symposium Digest of Technical Papers -



and I’d like to see if their ^ conclusions as ascribed to the value of 8K televisions at the 9 ft. viewing distance (and more importantly, beyond, which is more typical for many of us) be independently corroborated with real world UHD Blu-ray movie content (rather than specially rendered static images) by more than 6 folks (their study) with the observers having absolutely no affiliation to consumer TV manufacturers including potential indirect perks (that includes AV journalists) before I jump into purchasing an 8K tv for home viewing.

I like that word ... hyperrealism it sounds like . . . surrealism; better than what the human eye can see ...

• https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...st-more-pixels
_____

Save your money for next month ...
⊙ http://www.ladbible.com/news/technol...month-20190613

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

That Kaleidescape Rep said that their File Sizes can be bigger than UHD Discs, because the biggest UHD Disc is limited to 100Gigs while theirs can go up way pass that limit. So making Kaleidescape Downloads better than UHD Discs.

There is a big difference between “can be” and “is”. Want to bet their UHD titles are smaller in size than a the same title on UHD BD? If necessary, a UHD BD title can always occupy more than one disc. You are easily influenced by the power of suggestion.

[LordoftheRings]

What is the percentage of videophiles who own a Kaleidescape in comparison to videophiles who own a physical 4K Blu movie library?

What is more affordable, more reliable, more complete...visuals and sounds top best, more special features, more commentary tracks, more ergonomics, what is more better for the majority, what is best for OLED and 4K/3D HDR front projector owners?

What is best; picture quality, audio quality, features, simplicity, $$$ value, expansion (movie collection), access, availability, flexibility, support, 8K streaming, HDMI 2.1?

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by alchav21

That Kaleidescape Rep said that their File Sizes can be bigger than UHD Discs, because the biggest UHD Disc is limited to 100Gigs while theirs can go up way pass that limit. So making Kaleidescape Downloads better than UHD Discs.

Yes, it CAN BE, but all my clients’ UHD movie files are below 100 Gb, and all of them are the same size or slightly lower than physical UHD. After purchasing a handful 4K titles on his Kaleidescape, both my clients using Kaleidescape end up buying a Panasonic UB9000 and physical media, especially as they are really busy people and by the time they have the chance to watch something, the price of physical media of the same titles are about C$10 cheaper than the download version.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Kaleidescape is used mostly in projector based home theatre. There is no need for DV.

That's a bit disingenuous. I'd say that DV - or dynamic metadata at the very least - was absolutely crucial for getting decent HDR mapping on projektors early doors, but as there is no domestic DV solution for PJs (because they can't certify the PJ and whatever screen the customer is using) then it's been left to other devices to try and fill that void. (Is HDR10+ a thing for PJ's?)

Yes, the Panny remapping has done a great job but, given that we're talking about a separate playback solution (Kaleidescape) which can't go 'through' the Panny player, then PJ owners are kinda back to square one on the whole "HDR tone mapping" thing which makes me do a laugh. I guess that people who have a K system would also have someone come in and set up a custom curve or whatever for them though? Or are the K 'transfers' actually graded specially for projection systems?

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Geoff – honest, sobering comments like yours will not get you many ‘thank you’s or ‘likes’. You do see how well my metamerism posts with regards to WCG or the revelation of actually how difficult it was to get the experts to accept PQ HDR back in the day – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...m#post16508980

went over, don’t you?

Eh, I'm not in it for the likes. Obviously matey is going to crap on discs as he's literally there to shill his own service to the nodding cognoscenti in attendance, however its decline thus far is a matter of fact. How bad/worse it is depends greatly on one's own point of view. I think it'll be around for many years yet and I'll be buying everything that I can, but nothing lasts forever.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Nah, just sales speak. He needs to check his facts about BD sales vs DVD sales. Did you get the part where they are doing their own UHD/4K titles? I would wager a steak they are not bit for bit of the same title on UHD BD, even the well to do would not want to wait for a UHD BD download .

Another error, most of the time when I see a digital release that precedes a DVD/BD/UHD BD release, that time is only 2 weeks and only some studios do this.

Someone should have informed him that UltraViolet is shutting down as well as Sony Ultra streaming.

Hey now Wendell, but he’s an expert.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

I like that word ... hyperrealism it sounds like . . . surrealism; better than what the human eye can see ...

• https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...st-more-pixels

Hadn’t seen that article, thanks for the link. One of the comments at the end is kind of funny - "We don't want or need 8K. Just stop already." I’m afraid to inform the commenter that the paper I read by the same author(s) already says “This suggests that 8K or higher resolution will contribute to the improvement in image quality by cognitive factors other than visual acuity.” So you know where that’s leading as to what they'll be selling next.

Well anyway, I think the investigators came up with that catchy name of hyper-realism based upon Mach Band, Cherveul’s illusion, etc. which is physically unmeasurable and can only be experienced cognitively. If that latest study described in the article by the AV journalist is similar to the journal published one I red in that both were funded by Samsung Display, then, like I said, I need independent corroboration before I pull the trigger on an 8K tv.

Too much vested interest in validating a product in a Summit like that for my taste.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Eh, I'm not in it for the likes....

Oh, I know you don’t. That comment was tongue-in-cheek. I admire you for telling it the way it is or at least how you think it is rather than telling people what they want to hear all the time.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Oh, I know you don’t. That comment was tongue-in-cheek. I admire you for telling it the way it is or at least how you think it is rather than telling people what they want to hear all the time.

The thing about Kaleidescape touting their at-least-as-good-as-disc quality is that streaming is making leaps and bounds in that respect. I mean, grainy stuff is still going to suffer on-line, either with pre-filtering or whatever gets lost during the compression - which really IS "super compressed" compared to what's put out on disc - but stuff with no grain can look good on streaming, like scarily good. I couldn't resist taking a peek at Captain Marvel a few weeks back and if that 12GB download had been put onto disc I would have had no complaints, it looked consistently sharp and detailed and handled various problematic moments with smoke and darkness like a champ, with virtually no banding.

So while those K folks are willing premium disc to die so they can get everybody onto their expensive platform, regular OTT services are making their own strides in the meantime and who knows how close it'll get by the time that the plug gets pulled on disc?

[Penton-Man]

Last night while discussing the recent TV shootout at the local dog park with a couple of my neighbors, one of them asked me “I don’t get my TVs calibrated and I’d bet most people don’t, so is there any shootout where they simply compare what is the best TV out of the box?”. I replied that I don’t know, so is there? Seems a reasonable query.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/sta...s/2900-2829/8/

^ for you , when you bring the kids down to Anaheim to ride this (S.R. not the CineJet) –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post16463278

Tickets go on sale June 21 -
https://www.starwarscelebration.com/

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Last night while discussing the recent TV shootout at the local dog park with a couple of my neighbors, one of them asked me “I don’t get my TVs calibrated and I’d bet most people don’t, so is there any shootout where they simply compare what is the best TV out of the box?”. I replied that I don’t know, so is there? Seems a reasonable query.

Not really, but in general Sony LCD in custom mode this year and cinema pro for previous years, Panasonic THX mode, they are somewhat close to calibrated (still wrong, but acceptable). All Samsungs I’ve encountered have dE>5, some models like the 8000 series can have dE>10 at 40 IRE and lower.

[Penton-Man]

“Also, for better or worse, the HX310 still targets the 1000 nits of brightness provided by the X300 OLED monitor, despite high dynamic range supporting much higher brightness levels than that.” (https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#1874582b2bb7 )

^ although, forgot to tell your readers that the BVM-HX310….

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

calibrating an HX310 – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post15675510


with a Colorimetry Research CR-300 Spectral Radiometer

is not handcuffed like the X300 (brightness limited to a smaller window, aggressive ABL) whereas, the HX310 can achieve 1,000 nits of full-screen brightness, which makes a significant difference in grading content.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Not really, but in general Sony LCD in custom mode this year and cinema pro for previous years, Panasonic THX mode, they are somewhat close to calibrated (still wrong, but acceptable).

Thanks, I'll pass that onto my neighbor who's in the market for a new TV. Also probably good info for JoeQPublic in general.

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Tickets go on sale June 21 -
https://www.starwarscelebration.com/

Closest my kids will come to the Millennium Falcon is a cardboard box and their imagination. And if they don’t mow my yard I’m taking those away.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Not really, but in general Sony LCD in custom mode this year and cinema pro for previous years, Panasonic THX mode, they are somewhat close to calibrated (still wrong, but acceptable). All Samsungs I’ve encountered have dE>5, some models like the 8000 series can have dE>10 at 40 IRE and lower.

About Sony and LG HDR OLED David?
...Out of the box...which movie mode for 4K Blus @ night?

[Staying Salty]

Marvel Is Remastering All of Its MCU Films in 4K Ultra HD

https://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...ultra-hd/44285

Likewise, despite the upcoming arrival of Disney+, which will serve as the streaming home for the entire MCU, Alonso doesn't think that the digital service will impact plans to release physical media versions of the studio's future movies.

[LordoftheRings]

That's good news...more HDR Blu movies coming up our way, and Disney can afford it too with $9 billion+ predicted this year @ the global box office.

• https://www-cnbc-com.cdn.ampproject....l?amp_js_v=0.1