HDR Discussion Thread

[DJR662]

Out of curiosity, I watched episode 3 of The Mandalorian yesterday and its visual style very much reminded me of Solo: dark, muddy, milky blacks and flat contrast. I did not do a SDR comparison, but things such as little lights, laser blasts and light shining through from the background did seem to have a "subdued HDR pop" effect to me.

Btw I'm curious what the outcome would be if 4K/HDR iTunes streams such as Heat and Edge Of Tomorrow would be analyzed, because IMO those really look as if it's just SDR with an HDR flag (at least last time I checked )?

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by multiformous

The HDTV Test analysis has now been written up in Ars Technica and Engadget. Disney responded to Engadget's request for comment:

Does Disney they not understand what was being analysed, then? From their comment, it seems not.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Out of curiosity, I watched episode 3 of The Mandalorian yesterday and its visual style very much reminded me of Solo: dark, muddy, milky blacks and flat contrast. I did not do a SDR comparison, but things such as little lights, laser blasts and light shining through from the background did seem to have a "subdued HDR pop" effect to me.

Btw I'm curious what the outcome would be if 4K/HDR iTunes streams such as Heat and Edge Of Tomorrow would be analyzed, because IMO those really look as if it's just SDR with an HDR flag (at least last time I checked )?

There's also some stuff which has been on disc for years already that would also count as "fake HDR" by HDTVTest's standards which is why I don't get the current hysteria. But there's no screw-up as high profile as a Disnee screw-up, am I right?

As for the Mando, the file for ep 3 that I have has MaxFALL at 197 nits and MaxCLL at 998 nits. Ep 2 has no such metadata but even so, its appearance is identical to ep 3 with visible expansion of range and deliciously intense speculars.

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Does Disney they not understand what was being analysed, then? From their comment, it seems not.

I rarely expect the initial reaction from PR mouthpieces to actually understand the problem that's being talked about, reminds me of the BBC's first reaction to the Red Dwarf episodes on Blu-ray that had been improperly transferred as progressive, they just thought people were moaning about the creaky old 1" tape quality in general. It'll take more pressing to get the Mouse to look into this.

That said, these HDR10 streams of the Mando ARE genuine HDR to my eyes, the intent of the show is to have a subdued look with milky blacks but there is undoubted enhancement in highlight detail throughout and the brightest little speculars really do "pop", as loathe as I am to use that expression. So if Disnee are checking their masters on reference equipment then they're going to look as they should, but outside of that - be it the nagging issue of tone mapping OR an actual problem with some implementations of the D+ app - it seems like many people are running into problems (matters of taste aside).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So if Disnee are checking their masters on reference equipment then they're going to look as they should,

I can add one thing wrt The Mandalorian – https://www.company3.com/videos/the-mandalorian/
Steve (now with CO3) is top drawer - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post15073136

For those unaware -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Anyone who digs down to the pixel level to get rid of some magenta - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85lVPc0eAM0#t=23m34s

is driven to perfection

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Penton, Thanksgiving is tomorrow...Happy Thanksgiving!

Today is HDRgiving.

no traditional morning ride for us today as it’s raining pretty hard constantly, nevertheless, a good get-together for the family as some of us haven’t seen each other in years (east coast, west coast thing)

[Mierzwiak]

Geoff, have you seen The Irishman yet?

It looks very good in Dolby Vision, but every single scene I checked and compared with SDR version looked exactly the same in terms of highlight details. Of course in DV there's this beautiful sense of dimensionality and higher contrast, but I've found it surprising that even with some obvious shots like @ 23:20 mark nothing's clipped outside the window in SDR.

[Geoff D]

No I haven't. But as HDR usage grows then I think we'll see more examples of that sort of thing, there's no law that says one version must be a radical revision for the sake of it (see the comments in the Joker piece linked to above, that's gonna be an interesting one to compare in HDR) and when filmmakers are making new content then there's no excuse for the various deliverables to not reflect exactly what they want, within the boundaries of each format of course. Whether people then like what they're given, plus the issue of differences in how that content ultimately looks on any given consumer screen, are the two major variables obviously, but 'twas ever thus.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

Geoff, have you seen The Irishman yet?

It looks very good in Dolby Vision, but every single scene I checked and compared with SDR version looked exactly the same in terms of highlight details. Of course in DV there's this beautiful sense of dimensionality and higher contrast, but I've found it surprising that even with some obvious shots like @ 23:20 mark nothing's clipped outside the window in SDR.

I noticed the same thing when I recently compared a couple of scenes between The Phantom Menace in 4K/HDR on D+ and the official Blu-ray. The D+ stream looks quite nice IMO (apart from the DNR), although I wouldn't call it an HDR showcase, but I didn't notice any more details in some of the brighter portions in the HDR picture when compared to the SDR Blu-ray.

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Rock vs Hogan at WrestleMania 18

I'm from Toronto and I attended that event at the Skydome. The atmosphere was insane throughout the entire match. TV didn't even do it justice.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

Geoff, have you seen The Irishman yet?

It looks very good in Dolby Vision, but every single scene I checked and compared with SDR version looked exactly the same in terms of highlight details. Of course in DV there's this beautiful sense of dimensionality and higher contrast, but I've found it surprising that even with some obvious shots like @ 23:20 mark nothing's clipped outside the window in SDR.

I'm watching it right now in Dolby Vision. The compression could be worse, no artifacts, or really bad crush in the blacks so far. But man does it look almost 720p with a very muted wide colour gamut, on an image as flat as a pancake.

[Mierzwiak]

Check your connection speed or buy yourself a new TV

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

Check your connection speed or buy yourself a new TV

And I have an LG C8.

The solution is hope this gets put on a UHD disc.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

no traditional morning ride for us today as it’s raining pretty hard constantly, nevertheless, a good get-together for the family as some of us haven’t seen each other in years (east coast, west coast thing)

It's a beautiful warm sunny day here on the northern west coast ... Vancouver Island.
21° Celsius (on my ocean deck sunny view) for US Thanksgiving Day citizens (Thursday, November 28, 2019) is nice for Canada.
And same here, our family is an East/West coast affair/reunion.

* Every single day (since yesterday) I'm looking in these pages of HDR Discussion Thread (Blu-ray Forum) for more advancement and knowledge and learning from Vincent.
That was very sweet (educational) for him to contribute and share in all honesty his expertise feedback on HDR and Disney's Star Wars and all.

He is one of my most respected video professional calibrators on the planet YouTube and beyond ...

With high caliber people like Vincent, Geoff, Kris, Dan, Penton (you), and a bunch more contributing in these pages of the blue web, we are in the good hands of advanced videography knowledge (HDR Cinéma maison). It's a united common business, not a divisive one; among film studios, filmmakers, cameramen, computer operators, colorists, HDR applicators, motion camera lenses, framing, light, contrast, luminosity, 4K UHD HDR Blu-ray transfers, television manufacturers, projectionists, front projector manufacturers, Netflix, HBO, Vudu, Hulu, Prime Time, Disney+, ...all that Star Wars HDR jazz.

* I highly recommend 'The Irishman' to people with theaters and Netflix access in High Dynamic Range (HDR) 4K UHD and Atomas sound (Ď Atmos) and Dolby Vision (ĐV) video picture.
It's a masterfully storytelling film. How much truth is in it doesn't really matter (you can Google around to see if you can find the deeper truth on some key moments elements of history...ex.; by who and how Jimmy Hoffa was eliminated), ...it's a highly charged emotional caliber film with some important messages (@ least for me there were).
In my red cinema book (the blue one is strictly for Blu-rays), it's a solid 95 (out of 100) for film value (content messenger by the film director, cameramen, actors, decor sets, Robbie Robertson music score, props and cars and wardrobe and makeup and computer generated aging and deaging).
It's only 3.5 hours that goes by like knives out cutting true frozen butter...meaning you won't feel shortchanged by its unusual relatively longer running time as say compared to Lord of the Rings Extended Edition trilogy or Avengers quadrilogy or Once Upon a Time ... trilogy from Sergio Leone.
The Irishman fits perfectly well Martin Scorsese's mob narrative masterfully executed in & out all across the oceans and continent's borderline.
■□ I would have preferred if Marty would have filmed it in B&W (big time as it's my personal preferred color temperature for this genre of historic films) but that's ok I respect his director's vision.

Happy Thanksgiving to all my American cousins and friends and relatives.
Eat well, laugh well (from the heart), be well (health) in spirit and in physic, live well thanking the earth for the abundance provided to all your families and the immeasurable sacrifices by all who give and lost their lives since the beginning of the Big Bang (Adam, Eve, and the whole universe).

And please Vincent, anytime feel welcome here by all who greatly appreciate all you've done and do for the video people community @ large...HDR & all.
It's a beautiful day, it's a beautiful life, it's a beautiful planet we live on with beautiful Blu people.
I would post a beautiful youtube music tune (classical quatuor chamber music with cello, violin, alto flute and piano) but another time...after your second post ...

Best cheers to what seems the start of the best weekend of our lives ... in full colors HDR.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

something pole

No problemo
a true fake, and, as you wish, with a pole in the background –


behind the scenes courtesy one of the cameramen on The Revenant, which as mentioned above, Steve also finished - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85lVPc0eAM0#t=23m34s

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

It's a beautiful warm sunny day here on the northern west coast ... Vancouver Island.
21° Celsius (on my ocean deck sunny view) for US Thanksgiving Day citizens (Thursday, November 28, 2019) is nice for Canada.
And same here, our family is an East/West coast affair/reunion.

One thing tying our family together and providing good conversation is the success and excitement of the Baltimore Ravens this year

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

* I highly recommend 'The Irishman' to people with theaters and Netflix access in High Dynamic Range (HDR) 4K UHD and Atomas sound (Ď Atmos) and Dolby Vision (ĐV) video picture.
It's a masterfully storytelling film.

Our family watched it last night and enjoyed it much as it covers life’s themes beyond that of a typical *painting houses* character in a gangster movie. Not so sure how the forum as a whole will respond to it though as most membership seems super hero/sci-fi centric to me. Different strokes for different folks I guess. We thought Sheeran's testimonial dinner was especially outstanding.

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

advanced videography knowledge (HDR Cinéma maison)

https://www.company3.com/videos/the-mandalorian/
And keep in mind the philosophy of the boss -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMBsxg1hVls#t=6m36s

and what consumer monitors (TVs) CO3 uses in their rooms

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Our family watched it last night and enjoyed it much as it covers life’s themes beyond that of a typical *painting houses* character in a gangster movie. Not so sure how the forum as a whole will respond to it though as most membership seems super hero/sci-fi centric to me. Different strokes for different folks I guess. We thought Sheeran's testimonial dinner was especially outstanding.

70% of Blu-ray members (film connoisseurs) have rated it 5 stars out of 5 so far, included I. So we have here a high majority of top notch cinema knowledgeable members.
It's not about money it's about the message.

Sure, money is also a good messenger...Avengers, Joker and Frozen and Speedo Man.

* I'm still amazed that we were privileged here to have Vincent's presence yesterday with good HDR words from his professional expert view. ...Looking forward for more occasionally when his video expertise requires it ...

** Nice to see a horse and a pole behind ...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

70% of Blu-ray members (film connoisseurs) have rated it 5 stars out of 5 so far, included I. So we have here a high majority of top notch cinema knowledgeable members.

Good to hear , I’m impressed, perhaps content does rule.

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

* I'm still amazed that we were privileged here to have Vincent's presence yesterday with good HDR words from his professional expert view....

You can continue to be amazed as everyone is welcome here, despite their misunderstandings, past -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post16003193
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4mPokbZl10#t=1m24s

and present –

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

you are off base with regards to your *fake HDR* labeling of the SW episodes as explained on this and another thread - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...=293133&page=9

And if Vincent’s heat map colleague (Boris Adam?) decides to visit, he’s also welcome keeping in mind as constructive criticism I’ll inform him that Geoff’s exclusive non-professional analysis - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post17099715

is more accurate in that Geoff is expressing/showing the direct visual effect of the actual imagery rather than some indirect methodology because color map images can sometimes be misleading, as the displayed colors are false colors, and the observer may see a dramatic change in a color map and wrongly interpret that as a disproportionately large change in the visual appearance of thee actual imagery….or in the case of the most recent discussion on this thread, the converse - color map underestimating the true visual effect of the differences between objects in the actual imagery.

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

** Nice to see a horse....behind....

that’s too tempting to let go, the posterior view, courtesy of one of the crew –

[Penton-Man]

4:30 P.M approaching fast, butterball needs flipping
I’m still trying to figure out how I got hood-winked into flipping the bird while everyone else left to see a showing of Ford vs. Ferrari at the local cinema

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’m still trying to figure out how I got hood-winked into flipping the bird ...

With that opening, consider all the memes...

Edit: The made me do it...

[Show spoiler]

[Rottweiler30]

This has probably been asked before but why are all you purist film fanatics loving HDR.

Surely it's revisionism?

When my plasma breaks and I have to go 4k LED ( shudder), I hope you can turn it off.