HDR Discussion Thread

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

I don't know how familiar you are with wrestling, but I essentially see Netflix as the WCW of the streaming world.

For reasons like being forced to produced it's own content has them seeking out all talent that draws the most. That talent will take them for everything they've got, due to Netflix being in less of a position to turn down their projects Hollywood has the flexibility to rejected, but Netflix risks losing that talent.

Hence how Clooney ends up getting to make The Midnight Sky, and we are left watching it wondering why it even exists. It exists because Netflix honestly believes it's long term future isn't safe in just being a subscription streaming service, otherwise they wouldn’t be throwing everything and the kitchen sink at trying to become a major studio. But the chances of them ever being is zero, because, for the reason i explained above, they will never secure a production that will turn a profit. Just forever chasing something that will maintain their subscription base, till the bottom crashes out.

And then someone will get a nice little bargain buying up the Netflix catalogue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKwk...ature=youtu.be

You realise that virtually all movie studios are built around debt, yes? They don't finance projects from liquidity but from banks, hedge funds, foreign investors etc. They're all pumping billions in to try and find the next big thing, or to keep existing franchises viable, the only question is how much debt they're operating with. As for Netflix wanting to become a 'major studio', what exactly separates them from anyone else now that the theatrical arm of cinema is all but dead in the west? Warners are even turning to the Netflix model (limited roll out in cinemas wherever possible, release on streaming the same day) for their entire 2021 theatrical slate for which the old adage of "if you can't beat 'em..." springs to mind.

Unless someone literally turns off the internet (eh, this ain't China) then I fail to see where this streaming 'crash' is going to come from. There'll be blood on the walls as competing services fail over the coming years and decades, yes, but you underestimate Netflix at your peril and one supposed stinker of a movie ain't gonna put them under. They've already adapted once after all, I recall when they were just some janky DVD rental service and then they decided to remove the disc part from the equation. Their next mission was to remove cinemas from the equation and although they didn't get there without a helping hand from the 'rona it just accelerated a cultural shift that was already happening, e.g. Hollywood was getting really sweaty over the threat of Netflix.

Your WCW analogy disnae work because for so long they were second best, perennial also-rans next to the popularity of the WWF until they decided to throw everything at trying to beat them and burnt themselves out in doing so. But Netflix got in at the start of streaming, quickly rose to the top with no real competition and have been at the top ever since. Other companies have been and gone while Netflix remain embedded in the OTT firmament and it's only because Disnee bought up Marvel and Pixar and Lucasfilm and Fox and whatever else that they've got anything like the content needed to tempt people away from the big N. Christ, you wanna talk about Evil Empires then how about b!tching about the Mouse for a change instead of the Netflix/Apple hate? I'm starting to think that Jobs ran your dog over and Hastings burnt your house down.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You realise that virtually all movie studios are built around debt, yes? They don't finance projects from liquidity but from banks, hedge funds, foreign investors etc. They're all pumping billions in to try and find the next big thing, or to keep existing franchises viable, the only question is how much debt they're operating with. As for Netflix wanting to become a 'major studio', what exactly separates them from anyone else now that the theatrical arm of cinema is all but dead in the west? Warners are even turning to the Netflix model (limited roll out in cinemas wherever possible, release on streaming the same day) for their entire 2021 theatrical slate for which the old adage of "if you can't beat 'em..." springs to mind.

Unless someone literally turns off the internet (eh, this ain't China) then I fail to see where this streaming 'crash' is going to come from. There'll be blood on the walls as competing services fail over the coming years and decades, yes, but you underestimate Netflix at your peril and one supposed stinker of a movie ain't gonna put them under. They've already adapted once after all, I recall when they were just some janky DVD rental service and then they decided to remove the disc part from the equation. Their next mission was to remove cinemas from the equation and although they didn't get there without a helping hand from the 'rona it just accelerated a cultural shift that was already happening, e.g. Hollywood was getting really sweaty over the threat of Netflix.

Your WCW analogy disnae work because for so long they were second best, perennial also-rans next to the popularity of the WWF until they decided to throw everything at trying to beat them and burnt themselves out in doing so. But Netflix got in at the start of streaming, quickly rose to the top with no real competition and have been at the top ever since. Other companies have been and gone while Netflix remain embedded in the OTT firmament and it's only because Disnee bought up Marvel and Pixar and Lucasfilm and Fox and whatever else that they've got anything like the content needed to tempt people away from the big N. Christ, you wanna talk about Evil Empires then how about b!tching about the Mouse for a change instead of the Netflix/Apple hate? I'm starting to think that Jobs ran your dog over and Hastings burnt your house down.

And yet you've failed to address how is Netflix going to create, or gain IP to compete with the major studios?

Scoring a Scorsese flick no other studio would invest in is all good for us film nuts, but it doesn't butter the parsnips brother.

As you've said, and I do indeed know, the studio system runs on debt. But you need the big blockbusters to bank, thus fund the prestige films. And all Netflix can pick up is those projects that were candidates for prestige output, but were rejected.

As you've also said every studio is looking to get into the streaming game, and how long till there's a bing yanking of their IP from the flix? They are under no obligation to renew any license.

I also believe I've given the big D a lot of four letter words over Fox.

[Scottishguy]

And Disney doesn't need to profit from + for a long long time. That's the power of being a massive diversified multimedia company.

I'm sure Netflix would love to say they aren't in direct competition with the mouse, but they are. Netflix can think they are throwing rocks, but in the mouses eye they are barely pebbles.

Hey kids want to watch Avengers or Roma tonight?

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

And yet you've failed to address how is Netflix going to create, or gain IP to compete with the major studios?

Scoring a Scorsese flick no other studio would invest in is all good for us film nuts, but it doesn't butter the parsnips brother.

As you've said, and I do indeed know, the studio system runs on debt. But you need the big blockbusters to bank, thus fund the prestige films. And all Netflix can pick up is those projects that were candidates for prestige output, but were rejected.

As you've also said every studio is looking to get into the streaming game, and how long till there's a bing yanking of their IP from the flix? They are under no obligation to renew any license.

I also believe I've given the big D a lot of four letter words over Fox.

Your focus is on the wrong content. It isn't movies. It's TV shows and Netflix has had great success producing them. That's what subscribers want. The Crown, The Umbrella Academy, The Queen's Gambit, Stranger Things - just to mention a few of them.

Disney has excelled at this with The Mandalorian and is producing a whole host of TV shows based on the MCU and SWU.

A movie is one and done. Watch how many people drop HBO Max when either their 2 week free trial or their 1 month subscription expires, all later this month.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

And Disney doesn't need to profit from + for a long long time. That's the power of being a massive diversified multimedia company.

I'm sure Netflix would love to say they aren't in direct competition with the mouse, but they are. Netflix can think they are throwing rocks, but in the mouses eye they are barely pebbles.

Hey kids want to watch Avengers or Roma tonight?

Netflix sits at the top looking down at it's competitors as they look up. You should have read that article I posted. Very insightful.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Netflix sits at the top looking down at it's competitors as they look up. You should have read that article I posted. Very insightful.

I just read it. The only reason they are looking up is because they hadn't bothered to even start climbing till recently.

Said article also notes Disney + well and truly exceeded it's subscriber numbers. I know that would happen just because all of Disney stuff being there, that's the hook.

And now they've hooked people, time to reel them in with more exclusive content with all the capital Disney has. Netflix will be looking up soon.

And yes Netflix does have some great TV content. Problem is they want to make and distribute films, as I've said.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

And yet you've failed to address how is Netflix going to create, or gain IP to compete with the major studios?

Scoring a Scorsese flick no other studio would invest in is all good for us film nuts, but it doesn't butter the parsnips brother.

As you've said, and I do indeed know, the studio system runs on debt. But you need the big blockbusters to bank, thus fund the prestige films. And all Netflix can pick up is those projects that were candidates for prestige output, but were rejected.

As you've also said every studio is looking to get into the streaming game, and how long till there's a bing yanking of their IP from the flix? They are under no obligation to renew any license.

I also believe I've given the big D a lot of four letter words over Fox.

Dude, seriously, why do you think that Netflix throws so much money at making their OWN content? It's precisely for when the other studios withdraw their content, losing Friends didn't kill Netflix, losing the Marvel shows didn't kill Netflix, and I'm not sure what would ultimately be the Hastings slayer. You keep focusing on movies over and over and over and over but it's the serialised shows like Stranger Things that keeps people coming back to Netflix, the diversification into movies is just a bonus. And look at what Disnee are doing with Star Wars, there's like one new movie but a metric ton of streaming shows coming up, that's not a coincidence.

You also keep thinking about success as being a billion-dollar theatrical payday (not that any other studio is going to experience such a thing for a while yet) but Netflix' entire business model isn't about direct pay-to-watch income for any given show, never has been, so why does it matter if they're making movies within that same model? They state that 90% of the expenditure on any given content is amortised within 4 years. And for all the clunkers they come out with they've certainly had their share of critical darlings like Irishman, Marriage Story, Uncut Gems, Roma and so on. Some weren't all 100% Netflix produced, sure, but there's a reason indie filmmakers and veteran stagers alike are flocking to streamers: it's precisely because all the big studios can only think in billions and franchises that they won't go near low budget indies or expensive non-franchise stuff any more, creative expression is being strangled in pursuit of the almighty dollar.

Yes, they have to keep spending in order to keep up the revolving door of content and get new customers to sign up so there may well come a time when that subscriber base plateaus and they spend far more than they're getting back, but how is that going to be different for any other major streaming platform? I look at Disnee spunking what must be billions on those 217 new Star Wars and Marvel shows and I think 'really?'. Streaming has this fundamental system of robbing Peter to pay Paul built into it, so it could well collapse like a house of cards tomorrow...but it won't. You aks what pays for Netflix to do movies? Netflix' TV shows.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, seriously, why do you think that Netflix throws so much money at making their OWN content? It's precisely for when the other studios withdraw their content, losing Friends didn't kill Netflix, losing the Marvel shows didn't kill Netflix, and I'm not sure what would ultimately be the Hastings slayer. You keep focusing on movies over and over and over and over but it's the serialised shows like Stranger Things that keeps people coming back to Netflix, the diversification into movies is just a bonus.

You also keep thinking about success as being a billion-dollar theatrical payday (not that any other studio is going to experience such a thing for a while yet) but Netflix' entire business model isn't about direct pay-to-watch income, never had been, so why does it matter if they're making movies within that same model? They state that 90% of the expenditure on any given content is amortised within 4 years.

They have to keep spending in order to keep up the revolving door of content and get new customers to sign up so there may well come a time when that subscriber base plateaus and they spend far more than they're getting back, but how is that going to be different for any other major streaming platform? I look at Disnee spunking what must be billions on those 217 new Star Wars and Marvel shows and I think 'really?'. Streaming has this fundamental system of robbing Peter to pay Paul built into it, so it could well collapse like a house of cards tomorrow...but it won't.

They will start losing subscribers soon enough, they don't have the diversification or the capital to compete with the other multimedias entering the ring.

A subscriber to Disney + is never likely to unsubscribe because it's Disney. The only thing that will ever kill Disney is the extinction of the humanity.

Disney can "spunk" as much on Marvel and Star Wars as they like, and it would only take them a month to amortize.

But Disney doesn't even probably see themselves as competing with Netflix, or anyone. They just exist in the streaming space because they want to. And if anyone gets squashed along the way by the giant mouse, oh well.

But Netflix has to compete, and they just can't compete indefinitely.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

I just read it. The only reason they are looking up is because they hadn't bothered to even start climbing till recently.

Said article also notes Disney + well and truly exceeded it's subscriber numbers. I know that would happen just because all of Disney stuff being there, that's the hook.

And now they've hooked people, time to reel them in with more exclusive content with all the capital Disney has. Netflix will be looking up soon.

That may be true. So . . . Netflix will be #2 instead of #1. No one else but Disney can unseat them as the top streaming service in the world.

I can post article after article that shows Joe Average has 3 to 4 streaming services in his home. Netflix, Disney and . . .

And yes Netflix does have some great TV content. Problem is they want to make and distribute films, as I've said.

Which occupies a small fraction of what they spent in 2020 on content: $17.3 BILLION

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

They will start losing subscribers soon enough, they don't have the diversification or the capital to compete with the other multimedias entering the ring.

AT&T is a $204B company carrying $150B in debt. The only reason why they haven't declared bankruptcy is they have a $171B income.

Disney is a $328B company carrying $64 billion in debt.

Netflix is a $239B company carrying $12 billion in debt.

It doesn't take a financial genius to read those numbers.

A subscriber to Disney + is never likely to unsubscribe because it's Disney. The only thing that will ever kill Disney is the extinction of the humanity.

Disney can "spunk" as much on Marvel and Star Wars as they like, and it would only take them a month to amortize.

Disney will lose about $2 billion on Disney+ this year. Next year the loss will be bigger, then it's gets smaller until the end of 2024 when it goes from Red to Black.

But Disney doesn't even probably see themselves as competing with Netflix, or anyone. They just exist in the streaming space because they want to. And if anyone gets squashed along the way by the giant mouse, oh well.

If anyone fears Netflix and Disney it's Peacock, Paramount+, Apple+TV and HBO Max. Only room for 1 or 2 more in Joe Average's home.

But Netflix has to compete, and they just can't compete indefinitely.

Sure they can - with impunity.

They are the #1 streaming service in the world. They are in 190 countries. They have close to 200 million paying subscribers. Disney has 137M but they are counting Hulu and ESPN+ along with Disney+ (87M). Their debt to corporate worth ratio is tiny compared to their competitors.

We have at least another 6 months of the CV-19 pandemic. People want to be entertained stuck at home. Who else besides Disney and Netflix is all setup to reap the benefits of that time period?

[LordoftheRings]

This year, the main studios ... Netflix, Amazon studios, HBO, Disney Channel, ...
And who knows comes April 25th, and even if the event will take place, perhaps virtual (zoom).

• https://variety.com/feature/2021-osc...ns-1234764774/

[Penton-Man]

slow day in the UHD player threads? Over an hour’s gone by and not one post, oh well

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

We are going to see more catalog flicks get the 4K HDR treatment.

the perspective from Andrea Kalas (Paramount Pictures) and James Mockoski (American Zoetrope) regarding HDRing of library titles as well as earlier in the podcast (around 8 min. timestamp) exploring HDR with - https://www.imdb.com/news/ni63125102

Scroll down to near the bottom for the audio of the podcast and start at 25:13 - https://www.behindthespine.co.uk/e/andrea-and-james/

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

* As for Netflix, it's not going anywhere but up.

works for my portfolio as well as a viewing option

[PeterTHX]

Someone is trying to short Netflix stock methinks

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Someone is trying to short Netflix stock methinks

Not a good idea to short a growth stock. Just ask those that shorted TESLA stock. They lost $38 billion.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Someone is trying to short Netflix stock methinks

not me, I’ve taken the long position

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

welp, there’s always CES

corrected -

[Lee A Stewart]

The TV Installed Base in the U.S. is Getting Bigger and Newer, According to NPD

Over the last several years American TV screens have been inching up in size. Overall, installed TVs in the U.S. are larger – 15% are 60 inches or larger, up from 11% a year ago – and newer – the average age is 4.9 years, down from 5.4 years last year – than ever before.

According to NPD’s TV Ownership Trends Report, the average size of a replacement[1] TV jumped to 51 inches from 49 inches in November 2019, and 47 inches in November 2018.

“This year home entertainment became even more crucial as consumers spent more time at home due to the COVID-19 pandemic. TV sales, among other tech items, saw strong interest and as a result we saw notable shifts in the installed base,” stated John Buffone, Executive Director, Industry Analyst within NPD’s Connected Intelligence practice. “Without the ability to go to the movies or live entertainment Americans shifted spending to technology that offered at-home opportunities to consume content.”

In 2020 year to date, TV sales are up 19% compared to the same period in 2019. Through Cyber Monday week, 65-inch TV sales increased 27% vs. 2019, while 70-inch and above TVs increased by 82%. In total 65-inch and above TVs made up 21% of sales, increasing from 18% in 2019 and 13% in 2018[2]. We expect that by 2022 65-inch and above TVs will be 27% of sales[3].

While screen size is a key motivator, features like high-dynamic-range imaging (HDR) and apps are continuing to matter more as consumers consider replacement purchases. In fact, HDR now impacts 13% of replacement TV sales and the availability of apps reportedly impact 31% of replacement TV sales, up from 23% a year ago.

https://displaydaily.com/article/pre...ing-larger-tvs

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

not me, I’ve taken the long position

I know. Someone else who somehow thinks Netflix is going to fail anytime soon.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I know. Someone else who somehow thinks Netflix is going to fail anytime soon.

I fully admit it's an opinion that flys in the face of all current evidence at least