HDR Discussion Thread

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

As does other things too - CAMBI

Thanks to you and Lee for those links!

How does the Cambi (Contrast-Aware Multiscale Banding Index) opinion survey affect the "Barten Ramp" graphs commonly used (https://www.unravel.com.au/understanding-gamma) which were why Dolby decided that 10bit wouldn't cut it for HDR and so used 12bit (which they are now back-tracking on)?

[avs commenter]

That reminds me of the first time I saw the volleyball scene from Top Gun in HDR. Tom's nips really pop in HDR!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Thanks to you and Lee for those links!

How does the Cambi (Contrast-Aware Multiscale Banding Index) opinion survey affect the "Barten Ramp" graphs commonly used (https://www.unravel.com.au/understanding-gamma) which were why Dolby decided that 10bit wouldn't cut it for HDR and so used 12bit (which they are now back-tracking on)?

Not sure they're specifically related as CAMBI is about creating a reliable detection method for banding, not about curtailing it at the source/encoding level for which I'm hoping Netflix has procedures in place.

But that piece was an excellent read anyway. There are a lot of video artefacts out there that I've b!tched and moaned about over the years and banding is one of the ones that annoys me the worst because it's something that most people just can't 'see', or even if they do they just chalk it up to a 'poor source' or whatever. So it's verr interesting to find out that traditional video assessment tools weren't capable of identifying it properly either, though Sony have been studying the problem for years and did their own thing about it with Super Bit Mapping.

[PeterTHX]

FWIW I've noticed banding for quite some time, starting with DVD and internet streams. I used to think it was entirely caused by low bit rate (which is a biggie) but there's a variety of factors - even to the rare occasion of it being baked in at the source.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ronboster

Announced last week the Billie Eilish will perform "Sally's" role in the Nightmare Before Christmas performance.

Ron, ICYMI, Billie was so sweet and animated on Jimmy Kimmel Live last Wednesday night –

Billie Eilish on Going to Space, Writing Songs with Finneas, New Album & Her Bucket List - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Thanks to you and Lee for those links!

How does the Cambi (Contrast-Aware Multiscale Banding Index) opinion survey affect the "Barten Ramp" graphs commonly used (https://www.unravel.com.au/understanding-gamma) which were why Dolby decided that 10bit wouldn't cut it for HDR and so used 12bit (which they are now back-tracking on)?

I don’t know and would have to look into it further. The methodology to determine the result(s) is different. Anne’s team from Netflix did a single experiment with a group of observers as described in their blog.

As you may recall from my previous posts on this subject, Barten reviewed the pertinent experimental literature at the time (prior to (1999) on visual contrast threshold and introduced an analytical model to describe the typical performance of a human observer when viewing sinusoidal patterns of different size and spatial frequency that are inserted into images of otherwise uniform luminance. After extensive discussion by investigators independent to Dolby Laboratories, the Barten ramp was adopted in ITU-R BT 2246.

In regards to the 12 bit v. 10 bit back-tracking thing, I don’t know either. Perhaps 12 bit is considered ideal to eradicate banding with mostly all content at HDR luminances, whereas 10 bit is now thought good enough under most circumstances with 10 bit being easier to implement in some cases, pragmatism over perfection? You may also recall that in the development of HLG, HLG proponents favored the Schreiber’s model data as a criterion, 10 bits being sufficient.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

That reminds me of the first time I saw the volleyball scene from Top Gun in HDR. Tom's nips really pop in HDR!

Rather than 'nips', the internet is currently going crazy over Tom's newest facial features.

[Penton-Man]

Must compose a Friday flashback post....thinking.

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Rather than 'nips', the internet is currently going crazy over Tom's newest facial features.

his fake ass from Valkyrie?

[Penton-Man]

Friday flashback to – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post19423133

“The biopic will also chart the unlikely intersection between McQueen and Charles Manson (McQueen is a character in Quentin Tarantino’s Manson murders interpretation Once Upon a Time in Hollywood). When I found out that Marshall’s incredibly researched and thorough book that McQueen was supposed to be at the Sharon Tate house the night of the Manson murders, I was instantly engaged in that story thread”

And flashing back nearly one year ago to the day with a recording of Matt spilling the beans as to how OUaTiH was made - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDW_UsiNC2o#t=21m31s

with a shoutout to the Dolby Vine version -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDW_UsiNC2o#t=46m46s


*for clarity, Vine is not referring to a some special iteration, but rather the location - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post15604706

at which more than one HDR movie has been graded and exhibited, e.g. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post11569063

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

his fake ass from Valkyrie?

Not sure if you were being mean-spirited or genuinely interested, so to afford you the benefit of the doubt I’ll go with the later. After consulting with my better half who, b.t.w, and which makes me proud of her , her hospital -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Teaching hospitals (academic institutions that teach residents and fellows as well as being at the forefront of medical practice) –

(^ picture courtesy my wife from last Dec. while she was taking a 15 min. break outside to get some fresh air and unwind from 4T UC Irvine Medical Center)

being all over the news today with regards to the treatment of a special VIP patient apparently having had bacteremia.

If you’re asking for a differential diagnosis, she informs -
A. Normal weight gain
B. ‘Work’ - https://www.plasticsurgery.org/cosme...dermal-fillers
C. A combination of the above and if his neck is also swollen, then surgery too
D. Changes due to long-term, high dose therapeutic Prednisone for some ailment

I’m not sure why people on the internet are so hung up on perfect appearances, plus do you really think Tom gives a hoot when he can pilot a jet like this and ride a Ducati like that - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...es-filler.html. I would think the Daily Mail would be more interested in the new ownership of Newcastle United and what it means.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Just wanted to bring attention to this excellent open boxing and 1st impressions video of Sony's 100" X92 2021 4K HDR TV. Please re-share if you like it and think it's worthy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF8d...ature=youtu.be

Robert, although being a total rookie at moving merch, unlike our De’Arth who graced us with an appearance today , I think maybe I can at least do some salesman stuff on the side, e.g. –
Attention Best Buy shoppers, come next week:

Stores Offering Black Friday Deals Now To Encourage Early Holiday Shopping - YouTube

[Robert Zohn]

Check out Bob Archer of CE Pro's interview with Joel Silver, Jason Dustal and Robert Zohn discuss the HDMI 2.1 format, along with the CEDIA/CTA-RP28 Best Practices standard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1760...ature=youtu.be

[Robert Zohn]

@Penton-Man, et al, all audio equipment and TVs promotional prices and dates are set by manufacturers. The consumer electronics industry calls it "Unilateral Price Policy", UPP.

The manufacturers supply the authorized dealers with the "Promotional Road Map" that gives the dealers a peak into the next 6 or so weeks of planned sales and bundle offers. All retail channels, big box stores, independent retailers, and e-commerce sellers, like Amazon are urged to abide by the UPP policy and penalties are sanctioned to dealers who break the UPP.

So sorry to call bs on the NBC news video, but the Black Friday sales are dictated by the manufacturers and all of the retail channels abide by the Promotional Road Map that lists the UPPs.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...es-filler.html. I would think the Daily Mail would be more interested in the new ownership of Newcastle United and what it means.

The Daily Mail is one of the most hateful tabloids there is. I'm sure they hate the new ownership of the Newcastle United football team, but the problem with the online edition is that it has infinite space. It's not like the old days where they would have to prioritise which stories fit on the pages. So they use the space for their infinite supply of hate. Which sadly gets clicks and advert sales.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

....So sorry to call bs on the NBC news video, but the Black Friday sales are dictated by the manufacturers and all of the retail channels abide by the Promotional Road Map that lists the UPPs.

Perhaps they’re thinking the actual catalyst to the Black Friday sales may be too complicated to relay to the public-at-large in such a short interview like that and I’m not even sure the public really cares - only when things are going on sale being on consumers' minds, whatever the reason, plus I think BB’s heads-up to the BF sales may include other gizmos too, not just TVs and such, maybe like their private-label stuff too, but I’ll readily defer to your salesman acumen on that count. I think Best Buy was just trying to do a little advance sales showman, or in this case, showwoman-ship vis-à-vis her exposure on National News. No harm, no foul . Anyway, I think most here already know about UPP, no?

If you want to call out some, call out Greentoe and explain to folks here why that could be considered bad practice for all parties involved, as I’m not sure everyone here is familiar with that selling/purchasing platform.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

The Daily Mail is one of the most hateful tabloids there is. I'm sure they hate the new ownership of the Newcastle United football team, but the problem with the online edition is that it has infinite space. It's not like the old days where they would have to prioritise which stories fit on the pages. So they use the space for their infinite supply of hate. Which sadly gets clicks and advert sales.

thanks , I'm unaware of which are the tabloids and which are the legit (professional journalism) newspapers over there across the pond

[Penton-Man]

Marching to the beat of a different drummer than most, whereby a method of tailoring the exposure range of the DP’s principal photography to PQ for the HDR master - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymr4wyo7GcA#t=1h19m25s

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

thanks , I'm unaware of which are the tabloids and which are the legit (professional journalism) newspapers over there across the pond

In this day and age of instant, constant and multiple forms of information, is this song more relevant than ever?
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...4&postcount=60

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

In this day and age of instant, constant and multiple forms of information, is this song more relevant than ever?
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...4&postcount=60

When you’re down and out, one of my favorite comfort songs - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...l#post16450696

I actually owned their Concert in Central Park on laser disc back in the day - https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-r...SIN=B0131EAB46 until my laser disc player bit the dust.