4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Geoff D]

Hehe, that's why I keep banging on about UHD BD being a complete waste of ****ing time for 'lite' 4K TVs.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by eriaur

Sounds like it`s up to HDR to make the difference
(http://www.homemediamagazine.com/hig...paving-way-uhd) -

“Streaming services continue to have challenges transmitting HD, so just imagine the clogged pipes that await a format with four times the pixels — and significantly more data.”

Which is why there is a behind the scenes movement by some advocating for HDR+ (1080p HDR).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by eriaur

Meet Recap: Fox, Paramount, Disney, Deluxe and Sony

"The thing is you are essentially re-coloring the film, and that is a job that requires the filmmaker to do properly.”

You don’t have to pay to visit the studios to learn that ^ as the thing is that was discussed 9 months earlier (last Jan.) on Blu-ray.com, for free ->

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...because although HDR has the potential to be a very significant jump in image quality esp. in combination with 4K rez, the tradeoff is that in showing so much information on the image, the filmmaker may not have actually wanted some things in the frame to be comparatively more visible to the audience to begin with, as they could distract from the storytelling or something else in the frame.

Thusly, HDR regrades should be made in close collaboration with the filmmaker (preferably he/she being physically present in the color correction suite) rather than placing that *reimagining* of the motion picture burden solely on the shoulders of the technologist in order to quickly get product out the door.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hehe, that's why I keep banging on about UHD BD being a complete waste of ****ing time for 'lite' 4K TVs.

I find the fact that people have a hard time identifying HD vs 4K content without HDR confusing. I saw SDR 4K content like soccer at Best Buy and it was noticeably improved over HD footage.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by eriaur

Meet Recap: Fox, Paramount, Disney, Deluxe and Sony

“That evening after dinner we had a Q & A with Nick and Julie from Twilight Time.”

Did they spill the beans as to the name of the culprit here

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by singhcr

I find the fact that people have a hard time identifying HD vs 4K content without HDR confusing. I saw SDR 4K content like soccer at Best Buy and it was noticeably improved over HD footage.

Sure, something that's specifically shot in 4K (possibly @ 60p in the case of your soccer) or large format usually has a leg up over the HD equivalent but for your average 24fps 35mm movie (the bulk of any studio's catalogue) there really isn't that much of a gap in terms of spatial/temporal resolution alone. Viewing distance is also a big factor, enthusiasts might live virtually on top of their TVs and we can scrutinise TVs in-store but most normal people have it on the other side of the room and that's why DVD has long been 'good enough'.

People can scoff about others not noticing the difference but beyond a certain distance and/or screen size it really doesn't matter, and that's the hurdle that 4K has to overcome. Hell, if I get more than 6 feet away from my 55" then 1080p detail starts to drop off, never mind 2160p. The studios & manufacturers know this, hence the huge push for something distance-independent like HDR.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

I find the fact that people have a hard time identifying HD vs 4K content without HDR confusing. I saw SDR 4K content like soccer at Best Buy and it was noticeably improved over HD footage.

Having your cake (or homemade pumpkin pie with vanilla ice cream) and eating it too…..

4K HDR ->
From soccer (Juventus v.Lazio)…
http://www.infrontsports.com/news/20...tra-hd-format/

To opree (The Barber of Seville)….
http://www.dbwcommunication.it/?prod...4k-hdr&lang=en

To just recently, HDR HFR figure skating (captured, but test imagery yet to be publicly shown)

[singhcr]

So juicy sweet!

[Nickeleye7]

So when are we going to start seeing this stuff on the market? I'd say were definitely already in late 2015, I'm guessing 4k/UHD is getting pushed back to maybe Q1 2016. If you ask me this is all kind of a disorganized mess.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by Nickeleye7

So when are we going to start seeing this stuff on the market? I'd say were definitely already in late 2015, I'm guessing 4k/UHD is getting pushed back to maybe Q1 2016. If you ask me this is all kind of a disorganized mess.

which stuff? 4K is already on the market, there's 4K tvs and plenty of 4K streaming content. Very soon there will be 4K HDR streaming content, and shortly after that there will be 4K on physical disks.

It's not really disorganized, it's just a slow roll out. Most people don't remember the HD/blu-ray roll out so well because when those were as new as 4K is now was a very, very long time ago.

[Nickeleye7]

Originally Posted by spectre08

which stuff? 4K is already on the market, there's 4K tvs and plenty of 4K streaming content. Very soon there will be 4K HDR streaming content, and shortly after that there will be 4K on physical disks.

It's not really disorganized, it's just a slow roll out. Most people don't remember the HD/blu-ray roll out so well because when those were as new as 4K is now was a very, very long time ago.

I'm just saying according to the supposed release schedule we should already be seeing UHD players and discs on the market. I'm guessing we'll see a true reveal in the next couple of weeks?

Current 4k streaming isn't really UHD and most current 4k Tv's aren't even compliant to the supposed new standard. People are hoping the manufacturers will release firmware updates but what happens when that doesn't work out and you need a real UHD TV with HDMI 2.0 and all the other tech hoopla. Same with receivers.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by Nickeleye7

I'm just saying according to the supposed release schedule we should already be seeing UHD players and discs on the market. I'm guessing we'll see a true reveal in the next couple of weeks?

Current 4k streaming isn't really UHD and most current 4k Tv's aren't even compliant to the supposed new standard. People are hoping the manufacturers will release firmware updates but what happens when that doesn't work out and you need a real UHD TV with HDMI 2.0 and all the other tech hoopla. Same with receivers.

what are you people talking about when you say this?

I'm guessing that this means the lack of HDR and the full expanded color range?

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by Nickeleye7

I'm just saying according to the supposed release schedule we should already be seeing UHD players and discs on the market. I'm guessing we'll see a true reveal in the next couple of weeks?

Current 4k streaming isn't really UHD and most current 4k Tv's aren't even compliant to the supposed new standard. People are hoping the manufacturers will release firmware updates but what happens when that doesn't work out and you need a real UHD TV with HDMI 2.0 and all the other tech hoopla. Same with receivers.

Comparing the HD rollout to UHD just brings up more comparisons with D-VHS and UHD Blu-ray.

[Coenskubrick]

Originally Posted by spectre08

what are you people talking about when you say this?

I'm guessing that this means the lack of HDR and the full expanded color range?

I think they're talking about how most streaming UHD is such a low bitrate you don't really get any more detail despite the pixels technically being there.

[jono3000]

Originally Posted by Coenskubrick

I think they're talking about how most streaming UHD is such a low bitrate you don't really get any more detail despite the pixels technically being there.

You could apply the same logic to current HD or 'HDX' streaming

[Coenskubrick]

Originally Posted by jono3000

You could apply the same logic to current HD or 'HDX' streaming

You could. Hence one reason I buy blu-rays instead of watching HD streams.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by Coenskubrick

I think they're talking about how most streaming UHD is such a low bitrate you don't really get any more detail despite the pixels technically being there.

yeah, I'm going to need an actual citation on this.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by spectre08

which stuff? 4K is already on the market, there's 4K tvs and plenty of 4K streaming content. Very soon there will be 4K HDR streaming content, and shortly after that there will be 4K on physical disks.

It's not really disorganized, it's just a slow roll out. Most people don't remember the HD/blu-ray roll out so well because when those were as new as 4K is now was a very, very long time ago.

There are factors at work we don't know about.

• A solution for streaming 4K/Ultra-HD TV profiles will be included in the DLNA guidelines by Q3 2015,

Blu-ray 1080P (2006) was supposed to be a few years in advance of ATSC 2.0 which uses the same codec to support 1080P, S3D NRT and XTV (Java and Javascript). The PS3 was designed to support (except for USB or Network tuner) ATSC 2.0. The PS4's UHD blu-ray is supposed to be a few years in advance of ATSC 3.0 which will use the same HEVC codec and for XTV the same javascript and Java. It just requires a USB or Network tuner.

ATSC 2.0 has been delayed and it looks like ATSC 3.0 will be released early. Korea wants to broadcast the 2018 Winter Olympics Feb 2018 in UHD using ATSC 3.0. There are several additional factors that might make ATSC 3.0 come early.

1) Phone TV tuners. Phones use the same modulation scheme that ATSC 3.0 will use and the same UHF frequencies TVs used to use. With minor changes and firmware updates a Phone could support ATSC 3.0 mobile with very little additional cost. The FCC may require phones support ATSC 3.0 Mobile TV for emergency alerts. TVs will be required to be AOAC and turn on with an emergency alert (both the PS4 and XB1 support this AOAC network standby).

2) The FCC wants to auction off additional TV spectrum. In some markets this means not enough channels are available. ATSC 2.0 and 3.0 use h.264 and h.265 (HEVC) respectively which allow 2 to 4 times as many channels with the same bandwidth.

3) Requiring the consumer to buy a ATSC 2.0 STB and then two to three years later a ATSC 3.0 STB and possibly a new antenna does not make sense. Most of the Vidipath STBs being released in 2016 will support HEVC so with a network or USB tuner they can support both ATSC 2.0 and 3.0.

4) ATSC 3.0's primary short term use will be to support Mobile TV and 1080P channels. I suspect that sometime in 2016 DLNA network tuners will be on sale that support both ATSC 1/2 and 3.0. The current UHD TVs will require the same Network tuner and 1080P Smart TVs will require a DLNA server that transcodes to 1080P. All dumb 1080P TVs will require in addition a Vidipath STB with HEVC support.

The PS4 and XB1 have multi-stream codecs and are designed to be the HD and UHD DVR/DLNA server and transcode from HEVC to 1080P (Media Hub) as well as Vidipath client for 1080P and UHD TVs. All they need is a USB or Network tuner.

W3C extensions to HTML5 include USB and Network tuner control based on Hauppage USB and Silicon dust HD Homerun. HD Homerun prime is a DLNA tuner which serves a RUI for a Vidipath STB. No tuners currently support ATSC 3.0.

OK, that's the background as I understand it. The problem is chicken and egg....getting people to buy the Vidipath STBs be they on Cable or Antenna TV so that the majority of the cost to move to ATSC 3.0 features is pain free. Most of the UHD BLu-ray players will be connected to the home network and will have a HTML5 browser. If they support the UHD Blu-ray digital bridge they will likely support playready and are de facto Vidipath servers and Client. All they need is a Network tuner to support TV. This, I understand, is the plan for the PS4 and XB1.

Edit: ATSC 3.0 UHD TV is also going to support HDR and by accounts can support everything coming for UHD Blu-ray and vice versa. UHD Blu-ray is not just for movies.....3D and Multi-view for Augmented Reality tours of Museums etc and Multi-view for Live sporting events via UHD TV is coming. Including the audio there are 140 planned features for UHD TV. http://www.audioholics.com/hdtv-formats/atsc-3.0

ATSC 1.0 supporting 480i to 1080i
HD Blu-ray was released in 2006 supporting 1080P
IPTV streaming in about 2010 along with Blu-ray S3D
ATSC 2.0 was supposed to release 2013-2014-2015-2016 supporting 1080P, S3D (using blu-ray codec), Non Real-time Transmission, S3D and XTV
UHD streaming about 2015
UHD Blu-ray 2016
UHD (ATSC 3.0) TV 2017 and Broadcast early 2018 in time for the Feb winter olympics in Korea. Supporting NRT, 1080P, S3D, UHD (using Blu-ray's HEVC), XTV and 140 planned protocols/features and is extensible

Notice the short time between UHD Blu-ray release and the release of UHD TV (ATSC 3.0). I think the time to broadcast TV as ATSC 3.0 will be equally short. Consumers in Korea need a lead time to have ATSC 3.0 tuners so they can receive the UHD broadcast Feb 2018 so I expect the tuners to make it to market in 2016 as the signaling and carrier are already candidate status and can already be used for a Tuner; UHD TVs with the new tuner by 2017.

The CE industry will need must have features to get consumers to buy UHD TV and Blu-ray and they will need education and advertising.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by kidglov3s

Comparing the HD rollout to UHD just brings up more comparisons with D-VHS and UHD Blu-ray.

So we get true lies on it?

[Nickeleye7]

Originally Posted by Coenskubrick

I think they're talking about how most streaming UHD is such a low bitrate you don't really get any more detail despite the pixels technically being there.

Exactly, streaming UHD or any HD most likely has a third of the bitrate that an actual disc would provide. So a good Blu Ray would be just as good if not better than 4k streaming. Pretty sure there aren't even any lossless audio options as well. That's why you should wait before the players and discs are out before upgrading any hardware so you know exactly what you need.