Value Electronics 2015 Flat Panel Shootout at CE Week

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

I just received an e-mail from Kevin Miller. I asked him if SDR and HDR took one calibration or a separate calibration is needed for HDR and does HDR use a separate picture mode.

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Hi Jim,

That is a great question. I am waiting on specific training from Samsung on HDR and PQ gamma. I have a 65JS9500 through my work with Samsung. I can tell you that when I feed it HDR content it has a completely separately configured Movie mode from the calibrated SDR mode. It also looks really good even though I can't calibrate it yet. The other problem now is none of the signal generator manufacturers have not provided a product with HDR test signals and that's probably going to take a while.

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It seems like one should wait for awhile before paying for calibration. If Kevin (who is a Samsung consultant for PQ in the States) is not really up on HDR calibration, the guys at Best Buy wouldn't have a clue.


JimShaw

So, Samsung is using proprietary equipment for factory setup of HDR and you will have to settle for that until the calibrators are up to speed on HDR calibration.

Kind of difficult to have an HDR shootout if no one can calibrate the sets for HDR content; unless you settle for out of the box performance.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

So, Samsung is using proprietary equipment for factory setup of HDR and you will have to settle for that until the calibrators are up to speed on HDR calibration.

Kind of difficult to have an HDR shootout if no one can calibrate the sets for HDR content; unless you settle for out of the box performance.

I am sure Kevin Miller and David McKenzie are there now getting the sets ready. Maybe all they can do is get HDR to as close as to what they feel is best. Their experience, I think, will bring them close to what is needed. But like you said, "Kind of difficult to have an HDR shootout if no one can calibrate the sets for HDR content"


JimShaw

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

I am sure Kevin Miller and David McKenzie are there now getting the sets ready. Maybe all they can do is get HDR to as close as to what they feel is best. Their experience, I think, will bring them close to what is needed. But like you said, "Kind of difficult to have an HDR shootout if no one can calibrate the sets for HDR content"


JimShaw

You may be interested in todays WD press release:

http://www.wdc.com/en/company/pressr...2-f49558a3e175

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

You may be interested in todays WD press release:

http://www.wdc.com/en/company/pressr...2-f49558a3e175

Excellent. I took a quick look and now to go back and read


Thanks

[Robert Zohn]

Should be available the week of August 17th and very well worth the modest $89.99. Works with all 2014 HU9000 and 2015 JU series UHD and JS series SUHD 4K TVs.

We have our Western Digital 1tb USB 3.0 "My Passport" Hard Drives offer on our site.

-Robert

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Should be available the week of August 17th and very well worth the modest $89.99. Works with all 2014 HU9000 and 2015 JU series UHD and JS series SUHD 4K TVs.

We have our Western Digital 1tb USB 3.0 "My Passport" Hard Drives offer on our site.

-Robert

Robert

Thanks

Must be new. I haven't seen it on your site before

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

I am sure Kevin Miller and David McKenzie are there now getting the sets ready. Maybe all they can do is get HDR to as close as to what they feel is best. Their experience, I think, will bring them close to what is needed. But like you said, "Kind of difficult to have an HDR shootout if no one can calibrate the sets for HDR content"


JimShaw

Regarding HDR Calibration:

http://referencehometheater.com/2015...d-calibration/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZWW...tu.be&t=32m45s

Stacey (from SpectraCal), yes….true, re-mastering of previously shot movies for HDR is being done now. But, for the best quality HDR, you want to have had everything in 16-bit…. 16-bit RAW capture with your digital camera, high quality (floating point) color processing with a 16-bit openEXR workflow (which will retain as much dynamic range as was in the original capture) and then re-grading in HDR from the original 16-bit P3 theatrical master renders which are rendered out in PQ ((ST 2084) BT. 2020.

Is everyone doing that?.....and, over the course of time, will some content providers succumb to the temptation of using inferior sources in order to blow out an HDR title….to make some easy money? Sure, anyone can make HDR versions of 10 or 12-bit content look better than the original SDR version, but if one uses a 16-bit source, one will get significantly better results. One studio has already proven this with their internal testing.

For example, in other words, no matter which manufacturer solution (Technicolor, Dolby, etc.) employed, in order to bring out the fullest potential of what HDR has to offer, it be best to have *top-level* acquisition and source for the “top-service” post production….

http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/techfa...ontentID=44028

[Robert Zohn]

All manufacturers' press conferences that present ground breaking technology advancements are designed to be encouraging and to show off the enhancements. My friends Kevin Miller and David Mackenzie along with Samsung did a great job in presenting HDR to the public and all they said is true.

However, I wish I could say we are ready now to enjoy HDR, WCG and 10bit, but in reality for the most part the content and all of the many various standards make it impossible to calibrate to HDR at this time. However, the parameters of rec 709 color and SDR on a properly calibrated display will translate to a better HDR experience than the same TV without a professional SDR calibration.

Here's just a few of the HDR/WCG variations, for the overall standards there is Dolby Vision, Technicolor, Phillips, Samsung HDR, SMPTE and more I can't remember at this moment. Within each of the opposing HDR standards we also have the variation of the individual TVs peak luminance and MLL, the content providers also have choices in how they choose the color grading and tone mapping of P3, DCI or rec. 202 color space, peak luminance, MLL and even the gamma.

We also have no test patterns or generators available so the tools do not exist to properly set most of the CMS and contrast controls at this time.

Hope this helps.

-Robert

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Here's just a few of the HDR/WCG variations, for the overall standards there is Dolby Vision, Technicolor, Phillips, Samsung HDR, SMPTE and more I can't remember at this moment....

‘One-pagers’ on all the proposals are planned for an upcoming SMPTE report in the 2nd half of the year – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post11129143

P.S.
On the International (ITU) scene - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post11095874

[David M]

Hi guys,
Regarding HDR calibration on Samsung displays:

Right now there is no way to specifically calibrate the HDR mode for the end user. Even if there was, the TV would manually need to be kicked into HDR mode for the measurement because currently the only way for the end user to enable HDR is to play an HDR-tagged file through the TV's own video decoder (which means file input via USB, not video input via HDMI).

Rather, the HDR display mode right now can be thought of as a derivative of the picture settings for SDR. So the best current practice is to calibrate Rec709 as normal. The HDR display mode will use the same grayscale data calibrated for Rec709 (remember, UHD in the home is using the same D65 white point).

As Kevin said via email, we're waiting on more info from Samsung on how to calibrate HDR directly. Just one thing to be aware of, though, a point made to me by Florian Friedrich: you will need a really, really good meter to do it, especially because the response of the P.Q. EOTF is almost linear in the dark areas (which is challenging to measure for all meters). We'll know if the Klein K10a is up to the task when we get a chance to try it.

[Penton-Man]

This is the oddest exchange of posts given it’s no secret that Lyris is David M.

[raygendreau]

Looks like the LG OLED will be dethroned by the Panasonic CZ950 in the UHD HDR VE shootout. Can LG answer the challenge? Will Samsung be back in the OLED arena by 2016? Exciting times!

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Looks like the LG OLED will be dethroned by the Panasonic CZ950 in the UHD HDR VE shootout. Can LG answer the challenge? Will Samsung be back in the OLED arena by 2016? Exciting times!

Raygendreau your opinions are mute. I don't understand what your issues are with LG. LG has put a product out their that other companies tried, but placed on the back burner.
LG's OLED is amazing and appreciate a company that was able to bring it to the masses.

One man's trash is another man's treasure!

[Wilkinson1]

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