HDR Discussion Thread

[dirtnoise1]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

Star Wars in 4K HDR Dolby Vision on Disney Plus Analysis: Is It Fake HDR? - YouTube

Attachment 231721

Exposed.

[LordoftheRings]

Is Disney still releasing HDR flicks with Dolby Vision & Atmos (& 3D) on Blu?

Who needs Disney+ then? ...The hackers?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

Star Wars in 4K HDR Dolby Vision on Disney Plus Analysis: Is It Fake HDR? - YouTube

Attachment 231721

Philosophy -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sj-KPwAJV8#t=2m15s

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It's not fake HDR.

No, but it is of very limited Dynamic Range. More than SDR but less than HDR.

[Lee A Stewart]

Netflix now requires films to be captured in HDR

Netflix now requires cinematographers to capture new original films in HDR (High Dynamic Range), according to Variety. The new rule should help establish HDR as the new norm.

It is certainly not unusual to find new TV series and films on Netflix in Dolby Vision HDR but it will be even more commonplace in the future. Netflix now requires that its new films are captured in HDR.

At the Camerimage 2019 show in Poland, some cinematographers expressed surprise, according to Variety, and said that Netflix should have communicated the change to filmmakers earlier as HDR must be planned from the start of a film production.

One filmmaker emphasized that the new rule "could benefit the viewing experience for TV viewers".

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1574164683

[Geoff D]

Interesting development. Not so long ago I assumed that Netflix mandated HDR capture for their originals and assumed wrongly (it was them insisting upon DV *if* providing an HDR deliverable that I was getting confused with) but it's come to pass anyway? Kewl.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Netflix now requires films to be captured in HDR

Netflix now requires cinematographers to capture new original films in HDR (High Dynamic Range), according to Variety. The new rule should help establish HDR as the new norm.

It is certainly not unusual to find new TV series and films on Netflix in Dolby Vision HDR but it will be even more commonplace in the future. Netflix now requires that its new films are captured in HDR.

At the Camerimage 2019 show in Poland, some cinematographers expressed surprise, according to Variety, and said that Netflix should have communicated the change to filmmakers earlier as HDR must be planned from the start of a film production.

One filmmaker emphasized that the new rule "could benefit the viewing experience for TV viewers".

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1574164683

for a deeper dive into image capture see post (#11461) at the top of the page and for the direct link to the original source prompting the discussion, namely the Variety article which also reports on two other issues expressed by cinematographers, namely the pitfalls of modern day streaming dailies and the lack of financial acknowledgment of DITs by some producers, but not all –

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’m not a new fangled LinkHDR cart, but wait fer me!



cause I think I clean up pretty good –

e.g. the Top Gun: Maverick production employed more than one DIT

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

My last update, which was mid September at CEIA in Denver, I was told Q1 2020 for Sharp's 8K consumer camera. I'm following up with Sharp now for another update.

Fine effort, but for serious consumers, I’m thinking the camera will likely have limited dynamic range capability

[avs commenter]

The UHD quality on Dis+ is uneven at best. Some titles look very good while others look no better than regular Hd

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It's not fake HDR.

The original release of Disney Plus on the Android TV platform was followed two days later by an update. I found the update to be substantially better in terms of HDR quality on my Sony 850C.

[Penton-Man]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post16638755
^ -> "There are three sorts of people: those who are alive, those who are dead, and those who are at sea" (Aristotle)

Kris D., ICYMI, for your golden ears consideration –

The Wolf's Call / Le Chant du loup (2019) - Trailer (English Subs) - YouTube

I hope the new career away from sea is going well, as you’ve been quiet.

[Penton-Man]

speaking of DV -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIqr_tMWnag#t=15m29s

And for others who may have missed it, with regards to DV CMv4 from MTI -
https://www.productionhub.com/press/...ontent-mapping

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

At the Camerimage 2019 show in Poland, some cinematographers expressed surprise, according to Variety, and said that Netflix should have communicated the change to filmmakers earlier as HDR must be planned from the start of a film production.

One filmmaker emphasized that the new rule "could benefit the viewing experience for TV viewers".

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1574164683

Netflix's new rule is a very good thing, let me say that first.

But I must take issue with the idea that HDR "must be planned from the start of a film production". It is demonstrably untrue, otherwise we would not have brilliant 4K Blu-rays of these movies, fully mastered in HDR:

• The Wizard of Oz (1939)
• 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
• Alien (1979)
• Apocalypse Now (1979)
• The Shining (1980)
• Blade Runner (1982)
• Labyrinth (1986)
• Predator 2 (1990)
• Black Hawk Down (2001)

Was HDR "planned from the start" for ANY of those? No!
Do they look amazing? Yes!

Of course, it would be easier if the HDR had been "planned from the start", but it is by no means a requirement.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Netflix's new rule is a very good thing, let me say that first.

But I must take issue with the idea that HDR "must be planned from the start of a film production". It is demonstrably untrue, otherwise we would not have brilliant 4K Blu-rays of these movies, fully mastered in HDR:

• The Wizard of Oz (1939)
• 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
• Alien (1979)
• Apocalypse Now (1979)
• The Shining (1980)
• Blade Runner (1982)
• Labyrinth (1986)
• Predator 2 (1990)
• Black Hawk Down (2001)

Was HDR "planned from the start" for ANY of those? No!
Do they look amazing? Yes!

Of course, it would be easier if the HDR had been "planned from the start", but it is by no means a requirement.

I think you're confusing the point a little here, as HDR - as in the actual EOTF, not the wider concept of higher dynamic range - was never, ever planned for by any of those filmmakers on any of those films as it simply didn't exist, and the range that a film negative ultimately captures is NOT the same thing as what would've seen on theatrical prints or even the best showprint made at the time.

That those films have been successfully retrofitted for HDR is down to the issue of taste, as in the taste of those doing the regrading, and the horror show that is Apollo 11's HDR grade shows what can happen when a goober is let loose at the controls of archival content.

What's more sobering is that for most new movies and new TV content then they are *still* not actually 'shooting' for or in HDR, they're recording in RAW and monitoring on-set in Log or 709, and just having a P3 SDR pipeline from end to end during shooting is still quite rare never mind a full HDR monitoring solution on-set. HDR can drastically alter the intent of a scene as shot, not just the lighting itself but how that then affects skin, clothing and most other aspects of production design which aren't just picked willy-nilly, they're often subject to intensive testing prior to principal photography using the intended or assumed capture/viewing methods/transfer functions to assess them - so if you're then told at the last minute that that intent has to be thrown out of the window then of course it's going to upset some people.

Not everyone in the industry is a fan of HDR, we can call them Luddites or grouches or whatever but I respect their position, they've worked hard to get where they are and if they feel they can achieve the visuals they desire without HDR then that's not our call to make. And if they now HAVE to work in HDR then making that process as transparent as possible for the filmmakers is vital so they can get the prep done and truly seek to take advantage of it on-set, monitoring it as they go, rather than bolting it on in a grading suite after the fact - which is still pretty much how it's done across the industry.

[Penton-Man]

LG's DCI Approved LED wall –
https://www.dcimovies.com/compliant_...1-17-2019.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It's not fake HDR.

I would venture that Vincent would also consider Dunkirk to be 'fake HDR' given its even more modest MaxCLL.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

- which is still pretty much how it's done across the industry.

Pretty much, but not entirely, e.g. –
Although not a Netflix production, Top Gun: Maverick abides by Netflix’s current Capture Requirements -



adding to that ^
“I have used AJA FS-HDR in production for over a year now. It allows me to see beautiful and pleasing images out of the camera while monitoring on set [on TG: M]. I also enjoy additional features that FS-HDR provides, such as resizing for achieving custom formats or frame lines, as well as the ability to feed multiple signals and monitor both SDR and HDR simultaneously on the same reference monitor.” Claudio Miranda, ASC

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It's not fake HDR.

Peter, also, according to Vincent’s criteria , another ‘fake HDR’ movie would be Kong: Skull Island (https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Kong-...lu-ray/169937/, with its MaxCLL = 345 nits.

[Geoff D]

Well, that one kinda is. There's very little of anything that could be called HDR in Skull
Island IMO.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Pretty much, but not entirely, e.g. –
Although not a Netflix production, Top Gun: Maverick abides by Netflix’s current Capture Requirements -



adding to that ^
“I have used AJA FS-HDR in production for over a year now. It allows me to see beautiful and pleasing images out of the camera while monitoring on set [on TG: M]. I also enjoy additional features that FS-HDR provides, such as resizing for achieving custom formats or frame lines, as well as the ability to feed multiple signals and monitor both SDR and HDR simultaneously on the same reference monitor.” Claudio Miranda, ASC

The first part doesn't deviate from what I said at all, I said that they're capturing in RAW and monitoring in Log or 709, or P3 if possible. And I know that some are now being able to monitor in HDR but they are still the exception and nowhere near the norm.

Lol at shoehorning TG2 into every possible reply though