Does modern 35mm match up to 60s 65mm?

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

I still love the look of the Genesis in the right hands also the Sony CineAlta HDW-F900 or the
Thomson VIPER

I started watching Sons of Anarchy last week, shot on the Genesis at first, and while the noise makes it unmistakably digital and the highlights clip a bit much, the overall look is fantastic.

I jumped ahead a bit to spot-check the last season after they switched to the Alexa and it looked much worse, but I think most of that is because they also changed to the awful, generic "modern" desaturated/low-contrast/beige look with pallid skintones.

In general I quite like the Alexa, as when treated right the colors, dynamic range and noise can make it look surprisingly filmlike, certainly more so than RED (haven't had the chance to work with any Sony material though.) RED are pushing the Ks because that's the one thing they can compete with in terms of image quality. But I've worked with a lot of 5 and 6K material and often it seems there's barely half that amount in terms of actual image detail anyway.

[JayEmm]

I've looked at a fair bit of RED material in great detail lately (not something I often do), and both the R1 material and RED EPIC M-X stuff I have seen has had a lot of compression artifacts in it. The M-X stuff was recorded 8:1. A friend of mine shoots it a lot and he's started using 5:1 more now.

[Geoff D]

They shot 5:1 on Prometheus IIRC.

Apropos of nothing, I've been hearing a lot about the motion artefacts with HDRx too.

[JayEmm]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

They shot 5:1 on Prometheus IIRC.

Apropos of nothing, I've been hearing a lot about the motion artefacts with HDRx too.

You are correct Prometheus was 5:1. They could not afford the storage space to shoot 3:1.

The very nature of HDRx means it is going to create motion artifacts. They can shout it from the rooftops all day long about how wonderful it is, but in reality I know very few people who use it. 14 stops is more than enough for most of us.

[dvdmike]

Scott is the only person that can make me like the look of the RED cameras.
Prometheus looks like a moving watercolour

[eriaur]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Scott is the only person that can make me like the look of the RED cameras.
Prometheus looks like a moving watercolour

Did you like the look of Chappie?

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by eriaur

Did you like the look of Chappie?

Not reeeealy, it was better and it looks like they tried to correct the nasty colour cast.
Mind you I will be watching it in 4k this week, last I saw it was in Sony 4k in the cinema.
So will see what I think of it

[eriaur]

Will be interesting to read what you think of it. If the Panavision Anamorphic lenses and the ACES took away some of the RED-look.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by eriaur

Will be interesting to read what you think of it. If the Panavision Anamorphic lenses and the ACES took away some of the RED-look.

It looked great in the cinema, but I don't remember if I was looking at its look too deeply.
But I have the non HDR 4k file and the bluray so I can have a real look

[JayEmm]

Chappie looked hideous. Way, way, way too many drone shots.

I don't understand films that shoot RED and then stick in all these poor quality other cameras. The point of a RED is that it's small enough to be used in nearly any situation.

If you're pretending something is "camera eye view" then fine, but that wasn't the case for most of the shots in Chappie.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

Chappie looked hideous. Way, way, way too many drone shots.

I don't understand films that shoot RED and then stick in all these poor quality other cameras. The point of a RED is that it's small enough to be used in nearly any situation.

If you're pretending something is "camera eye view" then fine, but that wasn't the case for most of the shots in Chappie.

By great I quality that by saying it didn't look RED in that the cast wasn't that obvious from what I remember.
But that is the Blomkamp style, the drone style stuff, that is his look for whatever reason

[JayEmm]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

By great I quality that by saying it didn't look RED in that the cast wasn't that obvious from what I remember.
But that is the Blomkamp style, the drone style stuff, that is his look for whatever reason

It'll have much more to do with his grading choices than his choice of camera, I think.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

It'll have much more to do with his grading choices than his choice of camera, I think.

Oh indeed it will, and I thank him and Ridley for at least hireing someone who tired.
Mind you the Martian comes close to looking the RED way at times

[eriaur]

RED camera


Not the most epic of highlighted positives:

2015 camera comparison chart - Hollywood Post Alliance

ALEXA 65:
Unique Large Format Aesthetic
Proven Workflow
Proven Design
Known Sensor Characteristics
Wide Latitude

Sony F65:
8K, 6K, 4K De-mosaic
ACES Workflow
Rotary Shutter
16 Bit Linear RAW
Ultra Wide Color Gamut
Build-In ND Filters

Red Weapon Dragon:
Pro Res Workflow Option
Custom OLPF Filters
HDRx High Dynamic Range
Well Established R3D workflow
Modular Design
High Frames per Second

ALEXA XT Plus Open Gate:
True Anamorphic 4:3 Imager
Wide Latitude
Gently Rolls Off Highlights
Proven Reliable, Post-Efficient
ARRIRAW, ProRes or DNxHD
Optical Viewfinder & Mirror Shutter
(Studio Version)

Red Epic Dragon:
Self Contained - Ideal for 3D
HDRx High Dynamic Range
Established R3D workflow
Modular Design
High Frames per Second
Pro Res Workflow Option

Panavision - 35mm Film:
4:4:4 Color Sampling
Established Workflow
Widest Available Latitude
Proven Archival Value

[dvdmike]

We had an offer to use a dragon the other week I think it was, I voiced against it due to the amount if colour correction needed on the back end

[JayEmm]

Film "widest available latitude".

Bullshit.

Curious you say that Mike, there are a lot of people - including die-hard RED fans - who really don't like Dragon. And I can see why.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

Film "widest available latitude".

Bullshit.

Curious you say that Mike, there are a lot of people - including die-hard RED fans - who really don't like Dragon. And I can see why.

For what we needed it for it would be hours more on the back end and going over 4k was pointless in my view

[eriaur]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

Film "widest available latitude".

Bullshit.

Always some bullshit. Can report inaccuracies in the chart here:

2015 Camera Comparison Chart - PDF Version
December 2015

Compiled by Tom Fletcher and Gary Adcock with information gathered from numerous conversations with various cinematographers, colorists, colleagues and manufacturers.

Please report any discrepancies to tfletch1225@gmail.com . It is our sincere goal to have an accurate chart.

Please note portions of this chart are subjective. This is not scientifically tested and collected data. We have sincerely tried to assemble accurate information to share with the industry. Our goal is to help producers make an educated decision in a rapidly changing camera landscape

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tfletch1225

[JayEmm]

I just wish people would not make claims for a product beyond the manufacturer's own. It doesn't help.

So few young DoPs have actually shot film... it's annoying when it is held in such high regard - often backed up by dubious "science".

[dvdmike]

There is something ridiculously self indulgent about the hateful 8 being shot 70mm
And this is from someone who loves the look of a battered 70mm blow up