HDR Discussion Thread

[zmarty]

Originally Posted by ray0414

I wonder if the new version will replace the old version or just be an addition? There's currently 2 versions to click on but I'm not sure if they are different.

Not sure which one you mean:
- If you mean on Netflix, they state HDR and SDR in the title (they have two versions)
- If you mean on xiph.org, there is only a single video file, the rest are audio files - so a single Rec709 version
- If you mean my channel, I made the old one unlisted, so you should see a single one.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I think it would also behoove the BBC to publicly publish in layman’s language more as to the merits (versatility ) of HLG with viewing under non reference viewing conditions, expanding upon the ‘non reference’ part of this ITU contribution….https://www.itu.int/md/R15-WP6C-C-0141/en....

Because movies are one thing, but I, for one, and I’m pretty certain there are others (for example - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post13193898), prefer not to have to draw the curtains and dim the lights on Saturday or Sunday afternoon when I’ll/they'll be watching my favorite sporting event(s), be it soccer, football, golf....whatever, in HDR….

[Penton-Man]

For safety concerns, the inserted pic in the last HDR teaching experience ^ above, I’ll display below in a more native format so that those viewing on small devices don’t have to squint at the picture…..and cause a MVC while driving, Ray

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

so that those viewing on small devices don’t have to squint…..

searching for all the smoke in this particular image, for viewers safety and convenience, while still at my workstation before heading out to lunch….

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Because movies are one thing, but I, for one, and I’m pretty certain there are others (for example - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post13193898), prefer not to have to draw the curtains and dim the lights on Saturday or Sunday afternoon when I’ll/they'll be watching my favorite sporting event(s), be it soccer, football, golf....whatever, in HDR….

The BBC is good at explaining HLG but at times it is obvious that they are a government agency and not a private business. If they were a private business this kind of presentation would have been publically released last year and interviews would have been given about it to several major websites. While it makes sense that a free format doesn't get much advertising it does lead to a situation in which HLG is only briefly mentioned in most of the articles on HDR.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Because movies are one thing, but I, for one, and I’m pretty certain there are others (for example - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post13193898), prefer not to have to draw the curtains and dim the lights on Saturday or Sunday afternoon when I’ll/they'll be watching my favorite sporting event(s), be it soccer, football, golf....whatever, in HDR….

If I am interpreting the references to home displays needing to be brighter (max nits) than grading displays, then current (& 2017) OLEDs would not seem to get the job done. No?

(I can only keep up with some of your data presentations, but I do try to learn from most every one. Just a lowly accountant by trade.)

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by zmarty

Not sure which one you mean:
- If you mean on Netflix, they state HDR and SDR in the title (they have two versions)
- If you mean on xiph.org, there is only a single video file, the rest are audio files - so a single Rec709 version
- If you mean my channel, I made the old one unlisted, so you should see a single one.

this is what I mean. There are 2 versions on netflix to choose from when i search HDR. and those versions have different titles, as soon here in these pictures.

[zmarty]

Originally Posted by ray0414

There are 2 versions on netflix to choose from when i search HDR.

Actually, on Netflix what I did was search for Meridian. If you go inside, you will see two "episodes", one called HDR and another called SDR. I don't know where that version with a funny name came from. But I did this on the PC in a browser.

[sukraj]

Hi everybody I recently picked up a Samsung Ks8000 and when I watch HDR 4K Movies should I set the colour space to Auto or Native?

[DanBa]

. Preservation of artistic intent:

""In the making of commercial images the only thing that matters is what happens at the approval process. Everything that happens downstream of this should not alter this image." In other words, the "artistry" happens in mastering process and once approved, should be faithfully delivered to the end user."
[Charles Poynton]
http://www.insightmedia.info/a-day-w...arles-poynton/





. Hunt effect (one of many color appearance phenomena) & consequent color correction:

"To illustrate the Hunt effect, Poynton suggested we think of the color of flowers in sunlight, then think of the color of those same flowers at twilight. The color of the flowers has not changed, but our perception of the colorfulness of them has – they don’t look as colorful in dim light.
His point: "If you capture the flowers in daylight and show on a display with only 300 nits of brightness, the flowers will look like they are captured at twilight."
Since displays cannot show the full dynamic range of the natural world, we have to apply "artistic intent" to alter the image to produce what is desired. In other words, if you want the flowers rendered at 300 nits to have the visual colorfulness that they did in sunlight, you have to add more color. It is not accurate, but it conveys the artistic intent."



. Hunt effect & dynamic metadata:

"With the Dolby Vision [or other upcoming SMPTE ST 2094-based Dynamic HDR] mastering process one needs only store a single 4000 nit HDR master and multiple sets of dynamic metadata at differing nits levels [e.g. 300 nits, 500 nits, 800 nits, 1000 nits, 2000 nits, 4000 nits], to produce other lesser peak luminance masters if/when needed <- that later data size being MUCH smaller than that required for the storing of thousands of images from multiple luminance versions."
[Penton]
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=280



"A metadata set in ST 2094 incorporates a time interval, a window, metadata describing the targeted system display and parameters controlling the color volume transform. A receiver of the metadata can use the targeted system display metadata to select the metadata sets that are most applicable to the actual output device. A receiver of the metadata can use the targeted system display metadata to adjust the output of the color volume transform from the specified output device to the actual output device. "
[JCTVC-X0042-ST2094-10]
http://phenix.it-sudparis.eu/jct/index.php

Metadata track at 500 nits: … ; time interval X, window "Flowers", add more color+ (i.e. higher saturated color primaries) ; …
Metadata track at 300 nits: … ; time interval X, window "Flowers", add more color++ (i.e. more higher saturated color primaries) ; …
...


Another point of view: Primary Color Adjustments for Video and Cinema
http://www.peachpit.com/articles/art...61673&seqNum=8

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

If I am interpreting the references to home displays needing to be brighter (max nits) than grading displays, then current (& 2017) OLEDs would not seem to get the job done. No?

In bright home environments, e.g. a family room with a lot of windows on a sunny afternoon, LCD peak luminance will constantly stay ahead of OLED and I think HLG can better leverage that than PQ.

Originally Posted by gkolb

(I can only keep up with some of your data presentations, but I do try to learn from most every one. Just a lowly accountant by trade.)

No trade is lowly if it’s honorable and you work hard at it.
This time of year, especially, I depend heavily on my accountant.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sukraj

Hi everybody I recently picked up a Samsung Ks8000 and when I watch HDR 4K Movies should I set the colour space to Auto or Native?

ray, where are you? Help out a fellow ^ member. You’re our designated Samsung TV adviser.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

Preservation of artistic intent:

Reminds me...at the upcoming NAB 2017 in the Future of Cinema tract, there’s an hour long presentation/discussion devoted to the topic of How They See It: Do Consumers Really Care About Artistic Intent?...http://nab17.mapyourshow.com/7_0/ses...ScheduleID=465

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

Hunt effect (one of many color appearance phenomena) & consequent color correction

When Dolby first (year 2012) submitted their proposal(s) to working parties devoted to next gen video, they were astute enough to intentionally avoid the Hunt effect in the design of their experiments to determine the minimum and maximum display luminances for next gen displays.

The viewer preference charts and graphs subsequently posted/pictured years later in SMPTE webinars, NAB presentations, etc. were actually based upon studies presented to the ITU back in 2012 seen in the hyperlink (in the first paragraph), avoiding things like the Hunt effect and contrast induction.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

[Charles Poynton]
http://www.insightmedia.info/a-day-w...arles-poynton/

from ^ "he has made a number of informative, but sometimes provocative or controversial statements. Below is a quick summary of some I remember".

Additionally, I'll add that Charles does not shy away at all from publicly denouncing/exposing the beliefs and actions of the man with little hands now in the White House. These days, that takes courage.

[Penton-Man]

But back to geekdom and for what Charles is probably more known for in these video parts, I hope the Toronto folks get around to posting the January 2017 meeting

on YouTube…..
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeu...Wa3_0DS5KoZx9g with permissions from all the speakers.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by batman2000

should i get hdr or if i do i'll be left in the dust if there update to things with it etc.

If you prefer not to purchase this year, you can always wait a couple-several years for a



and enjoy the straight high road without fear of buyer’s remorse.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If you prefer not to purchase this year, you can always wait a couple-several years for a



and enjoy the straight high road without fear of buyer’s remorse.

It seems most tvs today can do 4k60, so I wonder if a 4k120 signal would down sample to 4k60?

[kristoffer]

I was also a doubter but after having seen HDR on Amazon, Netflix and PS4 on my new OLED TV, I am now a believer! Now I want everything in HDR! It is as if a filter is lifted and every shadow has more range, everything is more colourful and the picture and much more depth.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

It seems most tvs today can do 4k60, so I wonder if a 4k120 signal would down sample to 4k60?

Best if the content provider chose dual proportional integral derivative temporal scalable HEVC encoding on the front end.