4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

We won't ever move on so long as studios look at the numbers and are to afraid of any short term drop cause by the discontinuing of DVD only releases may have.



They 'might' buy a 4K TV. But as the numbers show just having blu-ray discs available doesn't mean people buy it. People could buy 5 star meals every day but McDonald's rules the food industry. Cheaper, in the US, equates to better to the vast majority of people. These are the same people who 45% or so think man lived side-by-side with dinosaurs.



Show me where I have ANY problem with 4K Blu-ray. Please, I'd like to see the posts I've made slamming the format and it's better quality? My problem isn't the format, the quality or anything of the like. My problem is that blu-ray isn't even close to a 50% market share with stupid studios dropping HD content for SD and now they will try and bring out UHD to a public they continue to pander to with the lowest common denominator. 4K BD will DIE faster than 3D supposedly has died because of the studios. Me wanting BD or 4K or anything won't change that. I want 4K and 3D audio and passive 2K 3D and so on. I like it all. But liking it doesn't mean I can't see how doomed to failure it is because of the studios and their stupidity.



All everyone who's so against my point is doing is guessing. "I guess most media people watch is at least 720p". "You can bet that people buying 4K TVs have a blu-ray player". "Blu-ray is not the only source of HD" blah blah blah. But you can guess and I make my point and then you can come back with some stat that proves my point and then you can guess some more about how I'm somehow wrong that 4K Blu-ray won't go anywhere because movie studios are stupid and continue to support DVD greatly over any other physical format. The 80% of physical sales stat brought out to support 4K having any chance proves that. Fox stopping blu-ray TV show releases shows that. Having DVD only copies of the latest movies on shelves proves that. Disney not releasing 3D in North America proves that. What more guessing do I have to do when the proof is in the pudding. 4K will be 1% of 1% of physical media sales. That's DOA before it's even released because the studios still support SD content like crazy.,



I can? So then everyone who has a HDTV also has a blu-ray player? And they watch a vast majority of blu-rays on that DVD backwards compatible blu-ray player? And they watch the vast majority of their video through HD sources? Really? I can bet that? Like what, a million dollar bet that I will win?

Seriously man, pull your head out of your ass. You are talking to someone who's worked in the electronics sales industry for years. I know what consumers buy and why. My sister has 3 blu-rays players and all her TVs are HD. Her and her husband, who likes to think he knows everything and gets the biggest and the best (that Costco has to offer) buy DVDs all the time. And no, not just DVDs of kiddie movies for the little ones but DVDs of anything. Owning a HDTV or 4KTV doesn't mean you actually watch HD or 4K content on it. My mother won't even learn what the HD channels are and watches Dancing with the Stars in a tiny box in the middle of her screen all the time. She's got all the options available and openly chooses to watch the wort possible content.

I can't even get a bunch of the TV channels I want in HD still. Shit I live in a country that BLEED hockey yet the NHL network is only in SD. Sure I can get the golf channel in HD because that's what I care about watching

WTF do you keep pushing that 4K TV buyers are also eating up HD and 4K content? Where is your proof? I could go sit in Best Buy today and ask every single customer who walks out with a 4K set what they will be watching on it, what content and players they will connect and I'd betting you most will not even know where to find 4K sources let alone have a blu-ray player and stack of blu's under their arm. 4K is a sales gimmick to prove you have the bigger dick right now. When 4K BD hits it's not going to make any ground and will be difficult to find pretty fast so long as the studio supported DVD 80% of sales still exists. That, pal, is something you can bet on.

Well my job involves visiting people's homes and I can promise you, not everyone is sitting watching bonanza in SD on their HD screens. I see playstations connected, I see sky HD boxes and I see HD pictures a lot of the time. Sure, some are watching SD but I would say it a small percentage. Football is a massive thing here in the UK and watching in a friends house on a big screen in HD is just a given. The likes of Sky Sports News (massively popular) are all presented in HD now with a purpose built studio. I also see, boo, hiss, Netflix and it's actually hard not to watch in HD. You have to change settings for SD only. If there are two or three feeds in that one house, that is several people young and old exposed to HD. Add to all that the PS3 and ps4 are both bluray players and you have a much different picture. See, for every example you give me, I can give you one straight back.

[AK65]

Are we going to hear more information at CES?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

*snip*

'Scuse me, it's going to take a while to spit out all the words you're putting into my mouth.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

We won't ever move on so long as studios look at the numbers and are to afraid of any short term drop cause by the discontinuing of DVD only releases may have.

While Blu-ray makes up over 20% of unit sales it does generate over 30% of revenue so studios currently consider Blu-ray to be a premium product. When 4K Blu-ray comes out that could change if it has good specs.

Originally Posted by AK65

Are we going to hear more information at CES?

Haven't heard anything yet but if a press conference happens for the BDA it might not be announced until a few weeks before CES.

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

While Blu-ray makes up over 20% of unit sales it does generate over 30% of revenue so studios currently consider Blu-ray to be a premium product. When 4K Blu-ray comes out that could change if it has good specs.

So again you further prove my point. 20% of sales makes up 30% of revenue. so by extrapolation 60% of sales would equate to a 20% increase in current revenues over what DVD is bringing in. 100% of sales (meaning no DVD only copies anymore) and you are making MORE money than you are today with DVD dominating the market.

4K has no ffoting to make any grounds when BD is still "over 20%) whatever that means. 4K will be nich to high-end consumers of HD product who right now make up only 20% of sales. So again 1% of 1%. That might mean it's .5% of revenues due to the higher price tag but you are talking about selling Ferraris and Lambo's in a world of VW Beatles.

the numbers brought up to support how great BD is doing and that 4K will do great to just make me laugh. You can't see what's right in front of your face. The stuiods continue to push DVD, take away BD options and now you think 4K has any chance in hell? Good luck!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

So again you further prove my point. 20% of sales makes up 30% of revenue. so by extrapolation 60% of sales would equate to a 20% increase in current revenues over what DVD is bringing in. 100% of sales (meaning no DVD only copies anymore) and you are making MORE money than you are today with DVD dominating the market.

4K has no ffoting to make any grounds when BD is still "over 20%) whatever that means. 4K will be nich to high-end consumers of HD product who right now make up only 20% of sales. So again 1% of 1%. That might mean it's .5% of revenues due to the higher price tag but you are talking about selling Ferraris and Lambo's in a world of VW Beatles.

the numbers brought up to support how great BD is doing and that 4K will do great to just make me laugh. You can't see what's right in front of your face. The stuiods continue to push DVD, take away BD options and now you think 4K has any chance in hell? Good luck!

Whatever makes you happy.

[Jbug]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Well my job involves visiting people's homes and I can promise you, not everyone is sitting watching bonanza in SD on their HD screens. I see playstations connected, I see sky HD boxes and I see HD pictures a lot of the time. Sure, some are watching SD but I would say it a small percentage. Football is a massive thing here in the UK and watching in a friends house on a big screen in HD is just a given. The likes of Sky Sports News (massively popular) are all presented in HD now with a purpose built studio. I also see, boo, hiss, Netflix and it's actually hard not to watch in HD. You have to change settings for SD only. If there are two or three feeds in that one house, that is several people young and old exposed to HD. Add to all that the PS3 and ps4 are both bluray players and you have a much different picture. See, for every example you give me, I can give you one straight back.

I always find it amazing how much American TV another country watches and visa versa. My wife and I want to visit England badly. It would be our first trip abroad.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

You told me I can bet on it that people buying 4K TVs also have BD players. I bet you that your are wrong and I can provide a ton more evidence than you. .

You have absolutely NO evidence.


There are 4K UHD owners on this site and other sites THAT HAVE BLU-RAY PLAYERS. Period. End of story. Show me someone who has a 4K UHD set without one. Put up or shut up.

[Kris Deering]

Interesting argument. I see Lentulus's point though. Even if EVERYONE with a 4K TV now had a Blu-ray player that doesn't make a strong argument for the success of 4K Blu-ray. I would wager the majority of early adopters of 4K TVs are enthuasists and represent a miniscule amount of the overall buying public. Or their rich people that handed over money to have the latest greatest for bragging rights and don't even know how to use it. Eventually 4K TVs will be common because it will be the only option, and at that point you have absolutely no guarantee as to the content that will be viewed. This is the situation now with HDTV. Just because you have one doesn't mean you use it for its potential and seek out HD content, you only have it because it was the only option. And I know that most "normal" people I talk to just assume that everything they watch is already HD because they have an HDTV. But they are watching DVD almost exclusively for pre-recorded media and use streaming or cable for everything else. I am an engineer and the average salary in the building I work in is probably between 90-120K so these are people that would have no issue at all buying Blu-ray and they are all highly educated (99% probably have a bachelors or greater in engineering). Yet when it comes to these things they tend to just plug and play, which hurts our cause.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You have absolutely NO evidence.


There are 4K UHD owners on this site and other sites THAT HAVE BLU-RAY PLAYERS. Period. End of story. Show me someone who has a 4K UHD set without one. Put up or shut up.

Me for one .

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

So again you further prove my point. 20% of sales makes up 30% of revenue. so by extrapolation 60% of sales would equate to a 20% increase in current revenues over what DVD is bringing in. 100% of sales (meaning no DVD only copies anymore) and you are making MORE money than you are today with DVD dominating the market.

Why do you assume that if studios stopped making DVDs, Blu-ray would stay the same price? Blu-ray continues to be priced the way it is now because it is a premium over DVD. If Blu-ray was the standard format, it would have to drop in price therefore causing studios to make less profits overall.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Kirsty_Mc

Me for one .

Well, you have to admit it's unusual for someone to join Blu-ray com and not have a Blu-ray capable device.


For people to drop the extra coin for a UHD set and not have one is the exception to the rule.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Let's all calm down now.

Who wants some pie?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Let's all calm down now.

Who wants some pie?

That looks lush! . Prefer cherry pie though and a nice coffee!

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well, you have to admit it's unusual for someone to join Blu-ray com and not have a Blu-ray capable device.


For people to drop the extra coin for a UHD set and not have one is the exception to the rule.

Especially for someone that lists a collection of 454 Blu-rays.

Did you read the post right Kirsty MC? It asked if anyone had a 4KTV but didn't have a Blu-ray player.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Especially for someone that lists a collection of 454 Blu-rays.

Did you read the post right Kirsty MC? It asked if anyone had a 4KTV but didn't have a Blu-ray player.

50% there methinks.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

So again you further prove my point. 20% of sales makes up 30% of revenue. so by extrapolation 60% of sales would equate to a 20% increase in current revenues over what DVD is bringing in. 100% of sales (meaning no DVD only copies anymore) and you are making MORE money than you are today with DVD dominating the market.

No, no, no. That assumes that everyone who is buying DVD today would purchase BD if there was no DVD. That's not going to happen. Many (perhaps most) would simply switch to streaming services, VOD, etc. They already are, which is why DVD sales are down 49% in the last five years.

And the math is wrong. If BD could achieve a 60% unit share of physical media, it would achieve 90% of revenue, not over 100%. But that would be fine anyway. If BD was taking 90% of physical media revenue, you would begin to see the phaseout of DVD.

But it's a moot point because no executive anywhere is going to kill a format that currently brings in 79% of the units and 69% of physical media revenue, even though it's declining. They'd be fired by the end of the next quarter.

The industry will "try" 4K physical media. They'll try anything. They know it's going to be even more niche than BD for a long time. So discs will be very, very expensive at launch. I'm betting a 30% up charge from BD front-title pricing. If it fails, then 4K will be only a streaming and/or download format.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Jbug

I always find it amazing how much American TV another country watches and visa versa. My wife and I want to visit England badly. It would be our first trip abroad.

Sky sports news is a UK station. Football is referring to what you guys call soccer. I do watch some US shows though.

I come from a city in the north east of england. I presume it's London you want to visit? Been there and life is just too fast for my liking. Give me more rural setting any day!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well, you have to admit it's unusual for someone to join Blu-ray com and not have a Blu-ray capable device.


For people to drop the extra coin for a UHD set and not have one is the exception to the rule.

It's not that unusual. Imo, some join just to bash bluray. Tragic but true.

[bruceames]

Just to clarify the little math problem above. If Blu-ray had a 60% share today in units sold, then revenue-wise the share would be 72%, not 90% and certainly not over 100%.

[Show spoiler]
So far this year the average cost per BD is $18.87 and $10.97 per DVD. 80.49 million BDs have been sold vs. 309.6 million DVDs. That's a unit share of 20.6% for Blu-ray, while the revenue share is:

(0.206 * $18.87) / (0.206 * $18.87 + 0.794 * $10.97) = 30.9%


So if the unit share were 60%, then it's revenue share would be

(0.6 * $18.87) / (0.6 * $18.87 + 0.4 * $10.97) = 72.1%