4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

A lot of the stuff on UHD Blu-ray will be upconverts....

And to continue that thought, if 4K native content (obviously more optimal ) is unavailable, would people rather have the upres done at the post facility….or, by the scaler in your 4K TV? I think the former…who have better tools and processes . Anyway, upconversion practice also applies to video on demand home deliverables -

Excerpt from the 2015 Spring Technical Forum Proceedings by the V.P. of Solutions Engineering for Deluxe….

"Formatting content from various sources to a uniform level of 4K quality requires expertise in different conversion processes, depending on whether the content was originally shot in 35 mm film, 1080p HDTV or 4K cinematic profile. Unlike the highly automated processes attending format conversions in the HDTV realm, these 4KUHD conversions are resource intensive. For example, MVPDs must be able to implement quality assurance procedures at every stage of the workflow, from ingest to final staging for distribution. Critical to delivering a superior consumer experience is the ability to take high quality content and make it playable across multiple formats and devices, while also testing that content across the vast range Consumer Electronic companies to ensure the intended playback experience.

Deluxe OnDemand recently conducted tests with video camera captured, episodic 1080p material with the following source specifications: ProRes HQ 422 10-bit 600 to700 Mbps. Through advanced “up-res” processing, Deluxe was able to produce content that looks better on a 4K TV than on an HD TV from standard AVC and MPEG2 ready to play 1080p material.

Results showed:

- When objects move through the screen,
UHD provides more pixels to smooth the
motion and reduce image ghosting across
multiple frames compared to HD.

- Edges are distinct providing clear
separation from backgrounds and other
objects in UHD – edges will be slightly
fuzzy on HD.

- Static backgrounds do not exhibit
blocking or compression artifacts – with
less bits HD may mush pixels together to
save bits for areas of motion, resulting in
macro blocking.

- Straight lines are clean and crisp in UHD
– HD may exhibit stair stepping across
pixels.

- Skin complexion is more readily apparent
in UHD, with greater detail than HD.

- UHD is capable of displaying individual
hairs - HD tends to lose thin line details.

- Static backgrounds do not exhibit
blocking or compression artifacts – with
less bits HD may mush pixels together to
save bits for areas of motion, resulting in
macro blocking."

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Deluxe

If some are unfamiliar with dee Deluxe -

http://variety.com/2015/artisans/new...nt-1201493281/
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...275463641.html
http://variety.com/2015/artisans/new...ks-1201421610/

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And to continue that thought, if 4K native content (obviously more optimal ) is unavailable, would people rather have the upres done at the post facility….or, by the scaler in your 4K TV? I think the former…who have better tools and processes .

agree, had the same discussion early on with HD BD and 3D. Professional equipment and, hopefully, people that care can do a much better job then the cheap machines (no matter how good) we have at home.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

agree, had the same discussion early on with HD BD and 3D. Professional equipment and, hopefully, people that care can do a much better job then the cheap machines (no matter how good) we have at home.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If some are unfamiliar with dee Deluxe

The company be everywhere
To see, scroll down….http://www.scenarist.com/press.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

The Hybrid Log-Gamma transfer function, which was made by the BBC/NHK

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Requires no mastering metadata which is a big advantage for broadcast (live) TV - http://www.itu.int/md/meetingdoc.asp...oration%20(BBC)

So, by not relying on metadata, the BBC/NHK proposal is believed to be a more practical solution for live TV mixed with graphics. Other potential advantages?....lower cost of implementation and the fact that unlike the Dolby/SMPTE ST.2084 approach, it is based on relative brightness.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And to continue that thought, if 4K native content (obviously more optimal ) is unavailable, would people rather have the upres done at the post facility….or, by the scaler in your 4K TV? I think the former…who have better tools and processes . Anyway, upconversion practice also applies to video on demand home deliverables -

Excerpt from the 2015 Spring Technical Forum Proceedings by the V.P. of Solutions Engineering for Deluxe….

"Formatting content from various sources to a uniform level of 4K quality requires expertise in different conversion processes, depending on whether the content was originally shot in 35 mm film, 1080p HDTV or 4K cinematic profile. Unlike the highly automated processes attending format conversions in the HDTV realm, these 4KUHD conversions are resource intensive. For example, MVPDs must be able to implement quality assurance procedures at every stage of the workflow, from ingest to final staging for distribution. Critical to delivering a superior consumer experience is the ability to take high quality content and make it playable across multiple formats and devices, while also testing that content across the vast range Consumer Electronic companies to ensure the intended playback experience.

Deluxe OnDemand recently conducted tests with video camera captured, episodic 1080p material with the following source specifications: ProRes HQ 422 10-bit 600 to700 Mbps. Through advanced “up-res” processing, Deluxe was able to produce content that looks better on a 4K TV than on an HD TV from standard AVC and MPEG2 ready to play 1080p material.

Results showed:

- When objects move through the screen,
UHD provides more pixels to smooth the
motion and reduce image ghosting across
multiple frames compared to HD.

- Edges are distinct providing clear
separation from backgrounds and other
objects in UHD – edges will be slightly
fuzzy on HD.

- Static backgrounds do not exhibit
blocking or compression artifacts – with
less bits HD may mush pixels together to
save bits for areas of motion, resulting in
macro blocking.

- Straight lines are clean and crisp in UHD
– HD may exhibit stair stepping across
pixels.

- Skin complexion is more readily apparent
in UHD, with greater detail than HD.

- UHD is capable of displaying individual
hairs - HD tends to lose thin line details.

- Static backgrounds do not exhibit
blocking or compression artifacts – with
less bits HD may mush pixels together to
save bits for areas of motion, resulting in
macro blocking."

Normally I would agree with you here but I'm skeptical on this. I've seen a lot of 1080i native material that was changed to 1080p (what should be a simple deinterlacing process) for Blu-ray that look horrible (see Wallace and Gromit A matter of loaf and death for a perfect example). I've also seen scaling artifacts that shouldn't be there in other titles. I completely agree that the studios SHOULD have the better tools, but it doesn't always seem to mean you get the better product. Is there a reason banding is so obvious in nearly EVERY title from Lionsgate but it is rarely a problem with other studios? Do they not have the tools?

I am closer to the opinion right now that we should get the NATIVE format of the movie when it comes to resolution otherwise what is the point of even having 1080p in the UHD spec? But I have a feeling that the majority of the content will be upscaled on the disc, and I do mean the majority of released content for a long time. This may also go a long way in letting you know what is actually from a true 4K master vs just an upconvert. Do you think the scalers in most higher end Blu-ray players (think Oppo) and scalers (think Lumagen) are worse than the scalers employed on all the 4K digital cinema projectors out in the wild that are scaling these 2K masters to 4K for playback? I know when I saw Mad Max this summer there were TONS of artifacts littered throughout the film. I couldn't help but wonder how many were scaling artifacts are just due to post production. Same goes for my theatrical viewing of Ex Machina. Saw it on a wonderful Barco 4K projector theatrically and noticed quite a bit of artifacts but the Blu-ray didn't have any of them at home.

[Geoff D]

I haven't seen too many theatrical scaling artefacts but I've seen quite a bit of aliasing on certain Blu-rays recently and Lionsgate's incompetence re: banding is truly worrying, so I'm also of the mind that letting the studio handle the scaling may not be the best idea. Using an outboard scaler I'm getting sensational results from regular Blu-ray on my 4K TV, so with a 10-bit 2K presentation on UHD BD it'd look even better.

I don't doubt that the upscaling will be exemplary from some studios, but from other outfits it'll probably be less than stellar.

[Xtrem3]

I will buy me an new 4K tv this week. and i`m going to use my xbox one as bluray player till the new 4K player is out, can X1 upscale to 4K to?? i will not doubledip my old collection again i have on bluray when 4K arrives, i just keep going with the new ones only

[Xtrem3]

I wonder if 4K players will be regioncoded as blurayplayers i hope not.

[jono3000]

Originally Posted by Xtrem3

I will buy me an new 4K tv this week. and i`m going to use my xbox one as bluray player till the new 4K player is out, can X1 upscale to 4K to?? i will not doubledip my old collection again i have on bluray when 4K arrives, i just keep going with the new ones only

If the X1 doesn't upscale it then the TV will.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Xtrem3

I will buy me an new 4K tv this week. and i`m going to use my xbox one as bluray player till the new 4K player is out, can X1 upscale to 4K to?? i will not doubledip my old collection again i have on bluray when 4K arrives, i just keep going with the new ones only

The TV will scale but it will look um.. Not so great.. Passable if your not too picky. Games on the other hand look great @ 900-1080 on 4K sets.

[bluearth]

Originally Posted by Derb

The TV will scale but it will look um.. Not so great.. Passable if your not too picky. Games on the other hand look great @ 900-1080 on 4K sets.

Just a couple of days ago I was here talking about how blurays looked awful on my 4K TV, but it turned out I was doing it all wrong. Theres a load of options on the Sony XBR850b, and I made the mistake of maxing everything out thinking it would make the picture look better. It didnt. It made it look worse. Much worse

Then I found out that proper 4K scaling only works in 24hz mode. Or at least I think thats how it works. Because the option is now available on the basic cable box feed.

Now blurays look magnificent. For the first time I doubted how 4K UHD could even look better. But I soon calmed down and reasonableness returned to me. If I messed with all the TV options ?correctly? I could get what appeared to be near 4K clarity. For example individual strands of hair were clearly defined, and the picture just popped off the screen. It almost had a 3D effect. However on closer inspection I found that all these 1080p quality enhancements destroyed alot of details like skin texture. So there was a trade off.

I expect 4K to have a flawless picture. A picture so sharp and crisp that each strand of hair clearly is defined without sacrificing other details like skin texture.

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by bluearth

Just a couple of days ago I was here talking about how blurays looked awful on my 4K TV, but it turned out I was doing it all wrong. Theres a load of options on the Sony XBR850b, and I made the mistake of maxing everything out thinking it would make the picture look better. It didnt. It made it look worse. Much worse

Then I found out that proper 4K scaling only works in 24hz mode. Or at least I think thats how it works. Because the option is now available on the basic cable box feed.

Now blurays look magnificent. For the first time I doubted how 4K UHD could even look better. But I soon calmed down and reasonableness returned to me. If I messed with all the TV options ?correctly? I could get what appeared to be near 4K clarity. For example individual strands of hair were clearly defined, and the picture just popped off the screen. It almost had a 3D effect. However on closer inspection I found that all these 1080p quality enhancements destroyed alot of details like skin texture. So there was a trade off.

I expect 4K to have a flawless picture. A picture so sharp and crisp that each strand of hair clearly is defined without sacrificing other details like skin texture.

I didn't know the scaling only works in 24 hz mode. I have the Sony XBR 55 X850C and the upscaling works in every mode. If it didnt, the image would be a little square inside with a whole lot of black around it. What size tv do you have and what are you running your reality creation at? I run mine at about 50 and I also have 4K blu-ray turned on too. Beautiful, beautiful, picture is all I can say!!!!!

[bluearth]

Originally Posted by Dylan34

I didn't know the scaling only works in 24 hz mode. I have the Sony XBR 55 X850C and the upscaling works in every mode. If it didnt, the image would be a little square inside with a whole lot of black around it. What size tv do you have and what are you running your reality creation at? I run mine at about 50 and I also have 4K blu-ray turned on too. Beautiful, beautiful, picture is all I can say!!!!!

Sorry Im referring to the reality creation's 'upscaling', if thats what its called. I have it set all the way to 100. It produces some geometric artifacts that are more readily visible on lower quality cable box signals, so the solution for me is to simply sit further away. On bluray these imperfections are smaller so I can sit within 6-7 feet and not really notice them.

Im still trying to figure the TV out. The settings are confusing. One minute you think you have a good picture the next you messed it up.

Unless Im reading it wrong the caption on the TV says reality creation only works with 24hz blurays. Which of course isnt true as I got it working with cable box movies which now look much better. Not sure if they changed that with an update or whatever. Its a 70"

Your TV is a newer model then mine, so thats probably where some of the confusion is coming from.

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by bluearth

Sorry Im referring to the reality creation's 'upscaling', if thats what its called. I have it set all the way to 100. It produces some geometric artifacts that are more readily visible on lower quality cable box signals, so the solution for me is to simply sit further away. On bluray these imperfections are smaller so I can sit within 6-7 feet and not really notice them.

Im still trying to figure the TV out. The settings are confusing. One minute you think you have a good picture the next you messed it up.

Unless Im reading it wrong the caption on the TV says reality creation only works with 24hz blurays. Which of course isnt true as I got it working with cable box movies which now look much better. Not sure if they changed that with an update or whatever. Its a 70"

Your TV is a newer model then mine, so thats probably where some of the confusion is coming from.

Yeah, my TV is newer but it does have all the same settings and stuff like that, I've checked. The only thing is that mine has the android operating system. That's pretty much the difference between ours. Anyway turn your 4k blu-ray option on too and move your reality creation down, way down. The higher you push it up, the more artifacts it will create. Especially on content highly compressed or poorly compressed!! Bring it down to around 20 and go from there.

[spectre08]

I've noticed that games, coming from the PS4 in my case, tend to upscale really well. Computer generated games tend to be more polygonal in nature, and it's much easier for the chip in the tv to interpolate from a sharp straight line than a blended curve like in a photographic image.

[raygendreau]

The growing complexity of content protection requirements expected to cause problems with legacy consumer electronics equipment integration.

"despite the fact that such root of trust and trusted execution environment hardware will probably create better security, ABI explains that it will also lead to a growing dependence on new security hardware solutions. Furthermore, this sort of system could cause compatibility problems for legacy systems like set-top boxes, smart TVs and mobile devices or PCs when it comes to integrating with the new 4K protection environment"

http://www.4kultrahdreview.com/while...tic/#more-1898

[bailey1987]

Here's something:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ult...-07-21-8173232

Ultra HD Forum Gains Momentum, Will Host MasterClass at IBC2015

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

Here's something:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ult...-07-21-8173232

Ultra HD Forum Gains Momentum, Will Host MasterClass at IBC2015

What is the relationship between the UHD Alliance and the UltraHD Forum? They are using the same address:

http://www.ultrahdforum.org/BOD%20Members.html

http://www.uhdalliance.org/contact-us/