4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[filmmusic]

Do you think that the coming of 4K blurays will stop this nonsense with DNR and stuff?
Meaning, will have people behind "restorations" have learned by then?
I really hope so!

[HDTV1080P]

My understanding is that the 4K Blu-ray players will have the ability to downscale 4K content to 480i,480P,720P, 1080i, and 1080P for consumers with older equipment (This still needs to be confirmed and is not a fact). This is also a must have feature since it will allow consumers to collect 4K Blu-ray movies and hold off on purchasing a 4K display until they are ready.

The 4K Blu-ray players might start out at $1,000+, however over the years under $300 will become a reality. After several years if consumers start replacing their standard Blu-ray players with 4K Blu-ray players then maybe one day only 4K Blu-ray players will be made. After several years maybe under ideal conditions 4K Blu-ray + Blu-ray combo packs will no longer be needed. The problem is if consumers purchase a 4K Blu-ray and it does not have a standard Blu-ray in the package, then consumer confusion will occur if the 4K Blu-ray movie does not play in a standard Blu-ray player. If the 4K optical disc format would have been called another name instead of having Blu-ray in the name, then that would have been a different story when it comes to consumer confusion.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by AudioWarrior

At some point they're going to have to pick a poison, just like they did with VHS. Either, they move onto something new, or be stuck with old technology that will stagnate with time!

I choose the former!

They didn't have to pick a poison with VHS, and they don't have to pick one now.

In the case with VHS, the studios didn't drop it until VHS only had a 5-10 percent market share. So there was nothing to lose. In fact, they were aggressively trying to get people to switch to DVD because they were so much cheaper to produce.

That's not the case with DVD. Not only are DVDs still cheaper to produce, but since all players are backwards compatible, they have zero motivation for people to drop DVD in favor of Blu-ray. And actually at this point their thoughts are on getting people to convert from physical to digital, so that they have more control over content and cheaper/free distribution and manufacture costs.

So the day is gone when studios are concerned about how many people are buying DVDs vs. BLu-ray. All they really care about is the bottom line and if that means more choice for the consumer then so be it.

[AudioWarrior]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Do you think that the coming of 4K blurays will stop this nonsense with DNR and stuff?
Meaning, will have people behind "restorations" have learned by then?
I really hope so!

I never got why movie studio's add DNR and other video processing effects that are often readily available on almost every HD TV, along with all the other numerous Blu-ray players that support the same features! DNr, Noise reduction, color enhancement...How many devices do you know of that support those? Probably quite a few!

They're only losing customers when they do stuff like that, so it seems very counter productive to me!

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

That's not the case with DVD. Not only are DVDs still cheaper to produce, but since all players are backwards compatible, they have zero motivation for people to drop DVD in favor of Blu-ray. And actually at this point their thoughts are on getting people to convert from physical to digital, so that they have more control over content and cheaper/free distribution and manufacture costs.

So the day is gone when studios are concerned about how many people are buying DVDs vs. BLu-ray. All they really care about is the bottom line and if that means more choice for the consumer then so be it.

I agree with all of this, but it's unfortunate. Many regular DVD's look truly abysmal on larger HD sets, and it's too bad that many/most?! consumers are willing to settle for this.

The backwards compatibility of Blu players is a double-edged sword: On one hand, it's fantastic that you can play DVD's on Blu players, since it's obvious that feature has gone a long way to selling the format to the general populace. I.e., if John Q. Public is in the market for a new player & sees a Blu player for a little more than a DVD player (if they even make regular DVD players anymore), they will probably get the Blu player - it's only a little more $ and can play both DVD's & Blu's.

The problem here is that because of this, if John Q. Public wants to buy their favorite movie/TV show, they may pick a regular DVD over a Blu (depending on the price difference).

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by AudioWarrior

I never got why movie studio's add DNR and other video processing effects that are often readily available on almost every HD TV, along with all the other numerous Blu-ray players that support the same features! DNr, Noise reduction, color enhancement...How many devices do you know of that support those? Probably quite a few!

They're only losing customers when they do stuff like that, so it seems very counter productive to me!

Well, unfortunately most people don't like grain, and think that HD and Blurays mean no grain and aboslutely pristine digital image that resembles recent productions..

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Well, unfortunately most people don't like grain, and think that HD and Blurays mean no grain and aboslutely pristine digital image that resembles recent productions..

I think the words film grain are being used to identify a studios back catalogue, as silly as it may sound it's like some symbolic thing that I am reading between the lines with, what with Blu-ray not meeting DVD sales, the studios are reluctant to release back catalogue titles in favour of new releases. I really do think film grain is a conspiracy

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

They didn't have to pick a poison with VHS, and they don't have to pick one now.

In the case with VHS, the studios didn't drop it until VHS only had a 5-10 percent market share. So there was nothing to lose. In fact, they were aggressively trying to get people to switch to DVD because they were so much cheaper to produce.

That's not the case with DVD. Not only are DVDs still cheaper to produce, but since all players are backwards compatible, they have zero motivation for people to drop DVD in favor of Blu-ray. And actually at this point their thoughts are on getting people to convert from physical to digital, so that they have more control over content and cheaper/free distribution and manufacture costs.

So the day is gone when studios are concerned about how many people are buying DVDs vs. BLu-ray. All they really care about is the bottom line and if that means more choice for the consumer then so be it.

While I agree with most of what you're saying, if the studios are as obsessed with getting people to switch to digital as some people claim, then it would be pointless for them to come out with another physical format.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by gregmasciola

While I agree with most of what you're saying, if the studios are as obsessed with getting people to switch to digital as some people claim, then it would be pointless for them to come out with another physical format.

So far I think the commitment to getting a 4K standard has been lackluster. If they were truly committed they would be completely overhauling the physical disc for more data space. Instead they are going quick and easy.

[sarah_wentworth]

Originally Posted by PsyTrix

A part of me was hoping 4K would just be a simple software upgrade to my existing Oppo player - I'm not thrilled about having to upgrade my hardware (besides the tv) to start all over again. There is already talk of 8K which is confusing consumers enough.

i like starting all over. its fun. just like when a new video game system is released

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Yeah, DVD is long dead and buried with not a single soul visiting its grave. Poor old DVD and its still higher than blu ray sales charts:

http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-bluray-sales-chart

http://www.the-numbers.com/weekly-dvd-sales-chart

Brings a tear to my eye to see it in this sorry state.

There's a higher chance that 4K blu ray will join D-VHS in tech limbo than ordinary blu rays joining VHS in tech heaven.

And for the record, I'm glad 4K blu ray is coming, like many others on this VIDEOPHILE, NON-ordinary consumer forum. I won't be upgrading my entire collection, but I hope that 4K blus will be released of many of the early Warner blu ray releases and most of Universal's catalog releases.

i agree dvd did well and i don't like to see it go. even though Elvis Presley is dead he continues to do well in sales as will dvd. but dvd is dead. it just doesn't know it yet. hopefully 4k puts the nail in its coffin

[sarah_wentworth]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

I'll be curious to see how much difference 4K makes on media not shot natively on 4K for home displays. I've seen those huge 4K TVs looking impressive with 4K demo discs, but how much better will The Godfather or Alien look like in 4K at home?

The Godfather and Alien movies will look way better!!!

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

I would really need to see it to believe it. So far it's all purely theoretical to me. I'm more into the films themselves and not that much of an AV perfectionist. There are many things about PQ and AQ people complain on here which I don't even pick up on. The way a decent Blu-ray looks on my budget projector still has me very impressed.

For me the question is if the difference will be enough to be worth thousands of $$$/£££ in upgrade of equipment and media so soon after the last time for anybody but the most dedicated (and well-off) AV fan.

the good thing is nobody will be forced to buy 4k. those who want 4k can buy it. those who want 1080p or 2k can buy that. problem solved

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by sarah_wentworth

i like starting all over. its fun. just like when a new video game system is released

i agree dvd did well and i don't like to see it go. even though Elvis Presley is dead he continues to do well in sales as will dvd. but dvd is dead. it just doesn't know it yet. hopefully 4k puts the nail in its coffin

DVD is nowhere near dead. As much as I love bluray, I see DVD everywhere still. The thing is, how can it be dead if 4k players will play them? They pretty much won't die until optical discs in general die.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by sarah_wentworth

The Godfather and Alien movies will look way better!!!

If you of all people say so then it must be right !!!!

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by sarah_wentworth

The Godfather and Alien movies will look way better!!!

You would look even more beautiful yourself in 4K.

To be honest in just about every store I go to, BD is always heavily outnumbered by DVD especially in stores like Target where unfortunately if anything, they've cut down on their already limited selection of BDs with DVDs. I don't like it but it goes to show that DVD is still going strong.

[Dylan34]

There's 3 Walmart super centers within 20 miles from where I live and at all 3 of them, DVD out numbers blu-ray probably 10 to 1. It's sad really but definitely true!! On the flip side of that though, all 3 carry titles that you wouldn't expect to find at a Walmart. I got quite a few of my horror blu's from there. Sorry to get off track but yeah, DVD is going to be around a few more years I'm afraid.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Tok

So far I think the commitment to getting a 4K standard has been lackluster. If they were truly committed they would be completely overhauling the physical disc for more data space. Instead they are going quick and easy.

I think that was the only way it was gonna happen though, there was no way anyone was gonna pony up the cash to develop an all-new laser and an all-new physical media format in the age of streaming. But piggy-backing 4K BD on existing tech makes perfect sense now that compression technology has taken another leap with HEVC. The revised format will still have 2.5x the date rate of regular BD and up to double the storage space, and disc production lines shouldn't need extensive retooling to produce the new 4K BDs. Even the new players wouldn't need to be very expensive in pure tech production terms, it's probably more the licensing fees that'll bump the price up.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think that was the only way it was gonna happen though, there was no way anyone was gonna pony up the cash to develop an all-new laser and an all-new physical media format in the age of streaming. But piggy-backing 4K BD on existing tech makes perfect sense now that compression technology has taken another leap with HEVC. The revised format will still have 2.5x the date rate of regular BD and up to double the storage space, and disc production lines shouldn't need extensive retooling to produce the new 4K BDs. Even the new players wouldn't need to be very expensive in pure tech production terms, it's probably more the licensing fees that'll bump the price up.

I agree. If you can get good results by retrofitting existing technology, why bother developing something new? It's just a waste of time and money.

Hardware wise, the only major thing that needed to be upgraded was the HDMI interface as 10-bit BT2020 w/HDR needs a lot more bandwidth than standard Rec 709 1080p. The 4KBD players need to have HEVC hardware decoding capability as well, and you are good to go.

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

To be honest in just about every store I go to, BD is always heavily outnumbered by DVD especially in stores like Target where unfortunately if anything, they've cut down on their already limited selection of BDs with DVDs. I don't like it but it goes to show that DVD is still going strong.

Well, the Targets near me seem to have a lot of Blu's, but I agree they have more DVD's. That being said, they seem to have more Blu's than any other retail store around here...

Originally Posted by Dylan34

There's 3 Walmart super centers within 20 miles from where I live and at all 3 of them, DVD out numbers blu-ray probably 10 to 1. It's sad really but definitely true!! On the flip side of that though, all 3 carry titles that you wouldn't expect to find at a Walmart. I got quite a few of my horror blu's from there. Sorry to get off track but yeah, DVD is going to be around a few more years I'm afraid.

You're in better shape than I am; I haven't seen anything other than brand new movies/TV series on Blu @ the Wal-mart near me....On another thread someone was talking about a $7.88 bin/area in Wal-mart with older horror flicks on Blu, but I haven't seen anything like this in mine - too bad, since I like getting horror films around this time of year.

In essence, the point about DVD's being around for quite a while yet is well-taken. If anything, Blu still looks like a niche format since there are a lot more DVD's vs. Blu's in stores.

The big question is, are Blu's ever going to over-take DVD's in terms of quantity & sales?!...

[Teazle]

Thinking about Bill Hunt’s piece (esp. his comments on how the large studios are geared to scale), I doubt we’ll get much catalogue from the major studios on this format. Initially there’ll be a spurt (Kwai and so forth), then it should settle mainly into premium-priced new titles. I guess that eventually it’ll fall to the indies to release more catalogue on 4K provided they can get the licencing.

[Teazle]

I really think they need to deploy 66GB and hopefully 100GB discs from the outset. If they can’t commit R&D to exceeding 33GB per layer maybe they can at least improve yields on 3-layer disc manufacture. Somebody please reassure me ...