4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

Well, that's nowhere near good enough.
As I've said, I need to know that there are UHD BD production standard discs currently coming off of commercial production equipment and that those discs are now undergoing testing (If UHD BD is to hit the market this year).

If software compliance test tools (AV/file system verifier) and hardware compliance test tools (test discs) aren’t yet available for content creators by the official estimated time of launch, then we’ll just have to do it thee ol’ fashioned way to see if dem discs are ready….the Wall Test -

Is My Spaghetti Ready? Wall Test - YouTube

[bailey1987]

I can't see why there wouldn't be 100Gb discs from the start BDXL has the now and has had them since 2010, and don't give me the "its a different format" shit.

[Geoff D]

As has been said every time this is brought up, it IS different in the sense that a little-used recordable format produced in limited quantities with writeable dye is not the same beast as a pressed mass-replication format. Having a few blank recordable 100GB discs lying around simply isn't the same thing as pumping out 100,000 professionally-produced platters a day.

If it's so easy to do you'd better go and tell the BDA and their replication partners because they were bricking it as of a year ago. I'm really not making this up, see the slide below. Have things changed since then? I bloody well hope so, but $17M for a commercially available 100GB line isn't just gonna fall from the sky...

[Geoff D]

In the report's own words the lack of 100GB wouldn't be a showstopper for launch, but it could end up "seriously impacting" studio publishing plans, ending up with multi-disc main features being the norm and a lack of alternate languages and bonus features. I've already said that it wouldn't really affect something with a built-in intermission like Lawrence, but what about other lengthy movies that don't have such a natural break point? It wouldn't take long for UHD BD to get a rep as the new 'flipper' format, given how fickle consumers are.

And a reduction in language options may not be seen as a big deal, but it's become increasingly important to the studios as more and more of them follow that Warners-style 'one size fits all' approach, so if they go back to having to produce specific discs for specific territories then that will keep prices high. Also, if extras are sacrificed on foreign versions to fit on the language options then that will also cause resentment towards the format in places which are already going to be a VERY hard sell on UHD BD.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

In the report's own words the lack of 100GB wouldn't be a showstopper for launch, but it could end up "seriously impacting" studio publishing plans, ending up with multi-disc main features being the norm and a lack of alternate languages and bonus features. I've already said that it wouldn't really affect something with a built-in intermission like Lawrence, but what about other lengthy movies that don't have such a natural break point? It wouldn't take long for UHD BD to get a rep as the new 'flipper' format, given how fickle consumers are.

And a reduction in language options may not be seen as a big deal, but it's become increasingly important to the studios as more and more of them follow that Warners-style 'one size fits all' approach, so if they go back to having to produce specific discs for specific territories then that will keep prices high. Also, if extras are sacrificed on foreign versions to fit on the language options then that will also cause resentment towards the format in places which are already going to be a VERY hard sell on UHD BD.

There's no reason they should sacrifice extras, they can just put those on a second disc. This happened when Blu-ray first launch, various titles with a lot of extras came on two BD-25 discs. Plus there aren't likely to be many bonus features that are produced in 4K (at least not initially), so they can easily put the extras on a standard Blu-ray and include that with the UHD Blu-ray.

As far as language options go... to start with it will only be serious collectors that are interested in UHD Blu-ray and I think they are more likely to want to watch the movie in its original language (with subtitles if needed). It tends to be more casual viewers that watch movies with dubbing. By the time UHD Blu-ray gets more widespread adoption (if that ever happens) 100GB lines will be more readily available.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

And a reduction in language options may not be seen as a big deal, but it's become increasingly important to the studios as more and more of them follow that Warners-style 'one size fits all' approach, so if they go back to having to produce specific discs for specific territories then that will keep prices high.

I just want to make it clear that the 'one size fits all' approach sucks, it's one of my main complaints with Blu-ray and DVD, thankfully I have no need for English subtitles and hopefully never will never mind the rest, obviously I don't mind and for that matter I insist that in each respective region the respective language and subtitle tracks are included but I insist that the rest is removed! Including language and subtitle track for all regions is just a load of globalisation and EU bollocks! I would sue if I could mark my words. Blu-Ray players were supposed to solve the problem whilst still including all the faff, the players asks you to set a language that the disc defaults to but it seem to have no use what so ever because the disc asks you every time to do the same thing!

anyway rant over roll on Ultra HD Blu-Ray

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

As far as language options go... to start with it will only be serious collectors that are interested in UHD Blu-ray and I think they are more likely to want to watch the movie in its original language (with subtitles if needed). It tends to be more casual viewers that watch movies with dubbing. By the time UHD Blu-ray gets more widespread adoption (if that ever happens) 100GB lines will be more readily available.

It's the EU as soon as it's gone the language tracks will disappear, it's just to appease the migrants

[bruceames]

They should just get rid of the language options (except commentary track) and use only subs. Subtitles take up very little space. If they do put other dubs then just gimp it down to DD@640. The people that watch with dubs probably won't notice the difference anyway and even if they do it should be the price to pay for not watching the movie in its original form.

[Penton-Man]

You guys are depressing me. The BDA needs to rev up a dedicated marketing machine like the UHD Alliance.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

There's no reason they should sacrifice extras, they can just put those on a second disc. This happened when Blu-ray first launch, various titles with a lot of extras came on two BD-25 discs. Plus there aren't likely to be many bonus features that are produced in 4K (at least not initially), so they can easily put the extras on a standard Blu-ray and include that with the UHD Blu-ray.

As far as language options go... to start with it will only be serious collectors that are interested in UHD Blu-ray and I think they are more likely to want to watch the movie in its original language (with subtitles if needed). It tends to be more casual viewers that watch movies with dubbing. By the time UHD Blu-ray gets more widespread adoption (if that ever happens) 100GB lines will be more readily available.

Originally Posted by bailey1987

It's the EU as soon as it's gone the language tracks will disappear, it's just to appease the migrants

Guys, I didn't reference alternate languages as a boon for consumers looking to broaden their horizons (although my Dad likes to watch the Fast and the Furious movies in Italian) or just to appease immigrants in our midst, I referenced them because not every country on this planet speaka da English, as hard as y'all may find that to believe.

If they have to create too many local variants of UHD discs due to not being able to fit on extra languages - and with limited replication capacity coming at a premium cost as it does for any new format, never mind something as niche as this - then foreign releases could be priced out of the market. 'Why should I care?' I can see you asking, but without the diversification that overseas markets offer then UHD BD will always be restricted to a very narrow range & amount of releases, which will affect the uptake of larger capacity lines and thus the long term survival of the format in general. It's one thing if it becomes the new Laserdisc (though regular Blu-ray already has that distinction IMO), it'd be a disaster if it becomes the next D-VHS.

You're right about extras Penguin, they could bung in the regular Blu-ray, but I'm just reporting what the BDA's view on the matter is. If people in another territory (I know it's hard to care about that, but indulge me for a second here) get the feeling they've been gypped by having the movie split into two just to fit on their language(s) or any specific on-UHD-disc extras are jettisoned to make way for the languages, then it could get a very bad rep very quickly. But hey, as long our provincial mindset is catered for then it's all good! [/sarcasm]

Sorry for the downers P-Man, but the more I think about it the more it's apparent that this format's on a hiding to nothing.

[bruceames]

Well if the DRM leaks are true, then it won't be necessary having extra language tracks because each country will will have their own discs (or at least, groups of countries).

I wonder if it will be possible to "enhance" a disc via the Digital Bridge? (ie, download the movie from the disc to your hard drive, and then download an alternate audio/sub file to accompany it). That would really add flexibility and utility. They could even fix bad encodes that way, instead of having to send out new discs.

Speaking of DRM, it's been really quiet on that front. I wonder if that's a good or bad sign? (if either).

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Guys, I didn't reference alternate languages as a boon for consumers looking to broaden their horizons (although my Dad likes to watch the Fast and the Furious movies in Italian) or just to appease immigrants in our midst, I referenced them because not every country on this planet speaka da English, as hard as y'all may find that to believe.

You missed my point about languages. Most people who are passionate about movies tend to prefer watching them with their original audio. If they don't understand the language they watch the movie with subtitles. When I watch movies in languages I don't understand I keep the original audio but use English subtitles. I'd imagine many movie aficionados from other countries watch American movies in English with subtitles of their native language. Subtitles are tiny so they won't take up much space on the disc.

[Geoff D]

By 'passionate' about movies I read that as 'nerdly' (with no offence intended to anyone because I'm a goddamned super nerd), because the average consumer doesn't give a crap about OAR or original language or whatever, they want it in a form that's as easy to digest as possible. So if UHD BD is ever going to become more than a cult oddity - and thus introduce "economic viability" into things like the 100GB lines - then it'll need to be a bit broader and not so elitist IMO.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

By 'passionate' about movies I read that as 'nerdly' (with no offence intended to anyone because I'm a goddamned super nerd), because the average consumer doesn't give a crap about OAR or original language or whatever, they want it in a form that's as easy to digest as possible. So if UHD BD is ever going to become more than a cult oddity - and thus introduce "economic viability" into things like the 100GB lines - then it'll need to be a bit broader and not so elitist IMO.

UHD BD is never going to be a mass market product (remember one of the panelists in the BA discussion mentioned that Blu-ray itself should never have been targeted as a mass market product but rather as a niche product), so that has its advantages. They can forget about catering to the lowest common denominator and instead cater to those who will actually appreciate what UHD BD has to offer. The average consumer won't care about UHD BD anyway.

Economic viability will have to come in the form with higher prices. You can't have low/midrange pricing with a low sales volume at the same time. One of those has to go up, and there's only so much 'up' UHD BD can go sales-wise in a declining disc market already with two entrenched formats.

[Geoff D]

I know, I know, it's only going to be an elitist thing but that's got my DVHS Spidey Sense tingling again. Will we be seeing OOP or rare UHD pressings go for hundreds of dollars like those tapes did back in the day? If so, I'm out. I just can't afford to do that shit again.

I know I sound like a complete douche when I say this, but when I think of all those clueless rich fools who'll be buying UHD BD because it's the next big thing I'm reminded of Peter's wonderful line in the gun store in Dawn of the Dead: "The only person who could miss with this gun would be the sucker with the bread to buy it".

[bruceames]

Good point, Geoff. I never thought of it like that. Well even if some of those rich people can't appreciate it, at least they are helping to support the format by buying it.

[I KEEL YOU]

I haven't been following the DRM situation with regards to UHD discs for some months now. Can anyone give me a short update? Have there been any news if it will be implemented or not, or is it still debated?

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

I haven't been following the DRM situation with regards to UHD discs for some months now. Can anyone give me a short update? Have there been any news if it will be implemented or not, or is it still debated?

No news yet.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Why do I get this feeling that Bran Stoker's Dracula, The Fifth Element and Léon: The Professional will be some of the first UHD BD titles released?

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Why do I get this feeling that Bran Stoker's Dracula, The Fifth Element and Léon: The Professional will be some of the first UHD BD titles released?

I get the same feeling. As for other studios films I'm putting money now on Universal releasing U-571 close to launch if not at launch.

edit:

looking at the covers for the films I can't say much for them I would much rather the full space be taken up by the artwork.