4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Yet the fire TV and roku and my phone can....

There's no way that with that GPU and a custom chip they can't update the PS4 to decode HEVC. It makes no sense...

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

There's no way that with that GPU and a custom chip they can't update the PS4 to decode HEVC. It makes no sense...

There's probably something going on under the hood preventing them from fully implementing the UHD platform.

It may also have to do with the HDMI chipset version included on the board.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

There's probably something going on under the hood preventing them from fully implementing the UHD platform.

It may also have to do with the HDMI chipset version included on the board.

It would be really surprising if that was the case, the power is clearly there maybe it will take some time to create the perfect software decoder but it will happen someday...

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

It would be really surprising if that was the case, the power is clearly there maybe it will take some time to create the perfect software decoder but it will happen someday...

But if the HDMI chipset is older, then it won't matter if they had six times the horsepower instead and a UHD Blu-ray compatible drive.

As of right now, you need HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2 for complete UHD media support.

Something tells me the PS4 platform does not have that key ingredient.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

But if the HDMI chipset is older, then it won't matter if they had six times the horsepower instead and a UHD Blu-ray compatible drive.

As of right now, you need HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2 for complete UHD media support.

Something tells me the PS4 platform does not have that key ingredient.

It's HDMI is pretty custom stuff

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

But if the HDMI chipset is older, then it won't matter if they had six times the horsepower instead and a UHD Blu-ray compatible drive.

As of right now, you need HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2 for complete UHD media support.

Something tells me the PS4 platform does not have that key ingredient.

even with HDMI 1.4 you can get 2160p @30fps. I don't know how they could get past HDCP 2.2 but maybe they'll find a way...

[Mavrick]

I don't think it's out of the question to assume a PS5 could launch in the next 3-4 years. Every console generation prior to PS360 had a 5 year turn around. The ten year life cycle simply means that the system will be supported for ten years, that doesn't mean a next gen console won't release before then.

In my opinion they should stick to that old 5 year cycle. Tech is advancing so fast year on year that it would be better to have cheaper slightly better hardware every 5 to 6 years, rather than extensive hardware every 8 years.

Current gen consoles weren't the leap that we saw from PS2 to PS3, it would be a stretch to see these consoles last 8 years, it took almost that long for devs to harness the power of the PS3. The PS4 on the other hand is pretty much tapped already.

Of course it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. The timings of UHD BD release are just all wrong for Sony or Microsoft. It's either they release a premium version of the current gen consoles, which is risky at this point since no one knows how UHD BD is going to catch on and be profitable.

So if Sony or Microsoft decide to go that route it could be a year or 2 from now, which would be about the same time they will be ramping up development of the next gen console so might not even be worth releasing a new version of PS4 and Xbox One.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

The final nail in the coffin for UHD Blu-ray

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/23...ra-hd-blu-ray/

Sad but so true.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

even with HDMI 1.4 you can get 2160p @30fps. I don't know how they could get past HDCP 2.2 but maybe they'll find a way...

There are other add-on's and changes to the spec. that happened along the way to the present situation that made HDMI 1.4 inadequate to the task.

HDCP 2.2 in the chain is also a must according to the BDA's studio licensees. Otherwise, you get plain ol' downconverted 1080p. They took a hard line stance.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

I don't think it's out of the question to assume a PS5 could launch in the next 3-4 years. Every console generation prior to PS360 had a 5 year turn around. The ten year life cycle simply means that the system will be supported for ten years, that doesn't mean a next gen console won't release before then.

In my opinion they should stick to that old 5 year cycle. Tech is advancing so fast year on year that it would be better to have cheaper slightly better hardware every 5 to 6 years, rather than extensive hardware every 8 years.

Current gen consoles weren't the leap that we saw from PS2 to PS3, it would be a stretch to see these consoles last 8 years, it took almost that long for devs to harness the power of the PS3. The PS4 on the other hand is pretty much tapped already.

Of course it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. The timings of UHD BD release are just all wrong for Sony or Microsoft. It's either they release a premium version of the current gen consoles, which is risky at this point since no one knows how UHD BD is going to catch on and be profitable.

So if Sony or Microsoft decide to go that route it could be a year or 2 from now, which would be about the same time they will be ramping up development of the next gen console so might not even be worth releasing a new version of PS4 and Xbox One.

I believe Sony and even Microsoft decided to divorce themselves from the concept of an all-in-one entertainment device. It's pretty much a gamer console strategy nowadays.

They probably feel that if the customer wants a movie disc player, they'll buy a stand-alone unit. And that consumer will probably be a little older and not much of a Millennial aged gamer, if at all.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

They probably feel that if the customer wants a movie disc player, they'll buy a stand-alone unit. And that consumer will probably be a little older and not much of a Millennial aged gamer, if at all.

No, they probably feel that launching a new movie disc format/player makes no sense in 2016... If they want to sell or support movies they don't need a disc player at all even at 2160p

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

The final nail in the coffin for UHD Blu-ray

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/23...ra-hd-blu-ray/

Originally Posted by Derb

Sad but so true.

Ah jeez. As if there were consumers in line waiting for UHD on the PS4, and now for some reason will never buy into it (nevermind BD playback and multimedia function is gimped on the PS4 compared to the PS3). Did ANYONE really expect it? Seriously?





Can always count on you guys for doom and gloom programming.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Ah jeez. As if there were consumers in line waiting for UHD on the PS4, and now for some reason will never buy into it (nevermind BD playback and multimedia function is gimped on the PS4 compared to the PS3). Did ANYONE really expect it? Seriously?

The PS4 southbridge should do all the Media functionality as it's the ARM Trusted Execution Environment. The current DLNA and Media player is a TEMPORARY Game app running on the AMD APU, it's not a Media app and does not support any DRM. That Sony felt the pressure and provided a temporary media app should have told us the embedded DLNA, Player and DRM was many months away.

If you run HTML5test on the PS4 browser you can get an idea of where Sony is in media features. HTML5 <video> MSE is not enabled...very few media features are supported in the browser. These MUST be supported for Vidipath to be supported and Sony has plans for the PS3 and PS4 to support Vidipath. The PS4 software list has WMDRM10 which is the DTCP-IP streaming DRM used by Vidipath. At this late date Playready DRM is being embedded in the PS3 to support Vidipath.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

No, they probably feel that launching a new movie disc format/player makes no sense in 2016... If they want to sell or support movies they don't need a disc player at all even at 2160p

Sony seems to be more inclined to concentrate on download distribution partners.

"The Sony HDR announcement was unclear on details about how many titles would be available or which studios and entertainment partners are also participating in the new releases. However, Sony did state that “a variety of home entertainment distribution partners” would be participating."

http://4k.com/news/sony-pictures-hom...-titles-87934/

Kaleidescape is one of those partners. Sony UHD HDR movies with lossless audio (DTS-HD MA, DTS-X, ATMOS, TrueHD) will be offered through the Kaleidescape store later this year.

http://4k.com/news/kaleidescape-inc-...layers-100836/

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Sony seems to be more inclined to concentrate on download distribution partners.

"The Sony HDR announcement was unclear on details about how many titles would be available or which studios and entertainment partners are also participating in the new releases. However, Sony did state that “a variety of home entertainment distribution partners” would be participating."

http://4k.com/news/sony-pictures-hom...-titles-87934/

Kaleidescape is one of those partners. Sony UHD HDR movies with lossless audio (DTS-HD MA, DTS-X, ATMOS, TrueHD) will be offered through the Kaleidescape store later this year.

http://4k.com/news/kaleidescape-inc-...layers-100836/

Yeah... if you happened to be a friggin' rich person this would be great!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Sony seems to be more inclined to concentrate on download distribution partners.[/url]

Yup, that's what puzzled me when everyone led with "Sony bringing Dolby Vision to UHD Blu-ray" headlines after the recent announcement of the Sony/Dolby tie-up, which neatly side-stepped the facts that A) UHD Blu was not mentioned anywhere in the press release and B) Sony aren't actually using Dolby Vision as a branded end product on their UHD movies, it's for the mastering only (presumably being output in BDMV HDR).

And, still, the silence from Sony re: UHD Blu is deafening. Well, apart from them saying that it won't feature in the PS4 any time soon (surprise surprise).

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

The final nail in the coffin for UHD Blu-ray

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/23...ra-hd-blu-ray/

Has anyone vetted or read the origional article? http://www.4gamer.net/games/990/G999024/20151021121/

The author also doesn't understand how a modern drive that should comply with 2010 standards (BDXL) can't read three layer disks. He starts as one of the posters here with a history of Playstation platforms introducing the CD, DVD, Blu-ray and S3D Blu-ray and expects the PS4 to support UHD Blu-ray and asks Ito to confirm, is he lying?

Itos says the PS4 drive can't read 3 layer disks and then the author goes on to question this by outlining standards since 2010 that should support any modern drive able to read 4 layer much less three. And he references a previous article that points out the XB1 and PS4 will support UHD Blu-ray:

Originally Posted by http://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999902/20150211003/

Nishikawa Zenji of 3DGE:!? PS4 also supports inevitable sudden 4K Blu-ray standard appeared in the Xbox One also Maichen is to explore the possibility of bringing about a revolution in television and display

Ito goes on to say the PS4 doesn't support a low power HEVC decoder yet as I've previously posted it was announced in 2013 that the PS4 will support 4K personal content and at some future date will support 4K commercial content which requires a low power HEVC codec. The quote I found for microsoft states the XB1 WILL support UHD blu-ray which confirms part of the above article.

Ito says UHD Blu-ray is under consideration and might be offered in a enhanced PS4 while it looks like the XB1 will have a UHD blu-ray as at least one person at Microsoft has announced it will as it has both a HEVC encoder and decoder and modern standard blu-ray drives CAN read a 3 layer commercial disk as seen in multiple cites in Wikipedia for 4 and 8 layer disks being read with a 2010 drive after a firmware update.

HDCP for UHD is required to be done in the same TEE as the blu-ray decryption and player NOT the HDMI chip. This is how the PS4, XB1, Kaveri and Carrizo does it. The custom PS4 HDMI chip was designed to also support VR at 60Hz, 90Hz and 120HZ so it likely was also designed for the bandwidth required and for future HFR UHD Blu-ray.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Has anyone vetted or read the origional article? http://www.4gamer.net/games/990/G999024/20151021121/

The author also doesn't understand how a modern drive that should comply with 2010 standards (BDXL) can't read three layer disks. He starts as one of the posters here with a history of Playstation platforms introducing the CD, DVD, Blu-ray and S3D Blu-ray and expects the PS4 to support UHD Blu-ray and asks Ito to confirm, is he lying?

Itos says the PS4 drive can't read 3 layer disks and then the author goes on to question this by outlining standards since 2010 that should support any modern drive able to read 4 layer much less three. And he references a previous article that points out the XB1 and PS4 will support UHD Blu-ray:



Ito goes on to say the PS4 doesn't support a low power HEVC decoder yet as I've previously posted it was announced in 2013 that the PS4 will support 4K personal content and at some future date will support 4K commercial content which requires a low power HEVC codec. The quote I found for microsoft states the XB1 WILL support UHD blu-ray which confirms part of the above article.

Ito says UHD Blu-ray is under consideration and might be offered in a enhanced PS4 while it looks like the XB1 will have a UHD blu-ray as at least one person at Microsoft has announced it will as it has both a HEVC encoder and decoder and modern standard blu-ray drives CAN read a 3 layer commercial disk as seen in multiple cites in Wikipedia for 4 and 8 layer disks being read with a 2010 drive after a firmware update.

HDCP for UHD is required to be done in the same TEE as the blu-ray decryption and player NOT the HDMI chip. This is how the PS4, XB1, Kaveri and Carrizo does it. The custom PS4 HDMI chip was designed to also support VR at 60Hz, 90Hz and 120HZ so it likely was also designed for the bandwidth required and for future HFR UHD Blu-ray.

Even if you are right, it's clear they WON'T update the current PS4 to play those discs.... So it doesn't matter.....

In the interview nothing is said about streaming services, I am fairly sure that firmware update will come.....

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yup, that's what puzzled me when everyone led with "Sony bringing Dolby Vision to UHD Blu-ray" headlines after the recent announcement of the Sony/Dolby tie-up, which neatly side-stepped the facts that A) UHD Blu was not mentioned anywhere in the press release and B) Sony aren't actually using Dolby Vision as a branded end product on their UHD movies, it's for the mastering only (presumably being output in BDMV HDR).

And, still, the silence from Sony re: UHD Blu is deafening. Well, apart from them saying that it won't feature in the PS4 any time soon (surprise surprise).

IMO BDA and hardware manufacturers are creating a disc format that nobody asked for...

The first thing they should have done was getting the 6 movie majors (Warner, Universal, Disney, Fox, Sony, Paramount) on board right away before even thinking about players and discs production.

Only Fox has shown a little support so far.....

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Even if you are right, it's clear they WON'T update the current PS4 to play those discs.... So it doesn't matter.....

In the interview nothing is said about streaming services, I am fairly sure that firmware update will come.....

Yes it's possible that Sony won't firmware update the PS4 to support UHD blu-ray. That gives Microsoft a big selling point as it appears that Microsoft will for the XB1 and PCs and also support Playready ND in home streaming from the UHD Blu-ray digital bridge. Nail in the coffin for the PS4 which makes Sony seem very stupid which I don't think they are.

This is as stupid as the Initial Sony statements that the PS4 wouldn't support DLNA or MP3 when the codec for MP3 is part of the listed software for the PS4 and MP3 is a web browser standard just as MKV is and MKV will be the open source container for HEVC media and both the PS4 and XB1 support MKV containers.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Yes it's possible that Sony won't firmware update the PS4 to support UHD blu-ray. That gives Microsoft a big selling point as it appears that Microsoft will for the XB1 and PCs and also support Playready ND in home streaming from the UHD Blu-ray digital bridge. Nail in the coffin for the PS4 which makes Sony seem very stupid which I don't think they are.

This is as stupid as the Initial Sony statements that the PS4 wouldn't support DLNA or MP3 when the codec for MP3 is part of the listed software for the PS4 and MP3 is a web browser standard just as MKV is and MKV will be the open source container for HEVC media and both the PS4 and XB1 support MKV containers.

PS4 is gonna destroy XONE no matter what in worldwide sales. A doomed movie disc format makes no difference at all...