Star Trek: Deep Space Nine -- Blu-ray

[cavedoctor]

The only thing I hope they do is recomp shots where there is a window into space behind the actors.
Babylon 5's remaster couldn't do that for stupid reasons.
If you can get that down, that's all we need.

[Chareth]

In the latest Inglorious Treksperts podcast, the hosts (all industry professionals) reported that work on the remaster, which they revealed was in the works a year ago, has now ceased due to the Skydance merger.

Very disappointing, but maybe Ellison’s team will be keener to do a complete remaster than RMB said the current decision-makers were with the original version (unless that info was wrong). Probably wisest to assume the worst until we learn otherwise though.

[LeftHandedGuitarist]

Originally Posted by Chareth

In the latest Inglorious Treksperts podcast, the hosts (all industry professionals) reported that work on the remaster, which they revealed was in the works a year ago, has now ceased due to the Skydance merger.

That is really gutting news. A proper HD restoration of DS9 is likely my holy grail of releases, and I had genuine hope after the report from a year ago. I'm thankful at least that Paramount so far has been committed to physical media releases of new Trek - fingers crossed that isn't going to change.

[iaragorn1]

I wonder how far along they were and how much film they were able to scan and archive.

I doubt that they scanned all of the reels but that would have put that to bed. A small piece of the puzzle of putting it back together.

[Trekkie313]

Given the popularity resurgence in anything Trek these last few years, not doing a remaster seems extremely shortsighted...Paramount acting like lazy WB.

[Chareth]

Hopefully it’s just due to a pause on non-essential spending until Skydance take charge and can see the books.

Bloomberg just reported Skydance intends to put billions more into streaming and it’s been reported elsewhere that they want to beef up Paramount+. Given that, or having a more attractive product to license to other streamers, was always the more likely justification for a remaster, Skydance may actually be good news for this. And that funding might even allow for the proper remaster the show deserves and not the AI one Robert Meyer Burnett has heard about.

The delay might even allow enough time for debacles like the I Love Lucy AI weirdness to sink in and be decided against.

But I’m still gonna assume the worst for now. This remaster is so essential that I want to be prepared for disappointment.

[cavedoctor]

Originally Posted by Chareth

In the latest Inglorious Treksperts podcast, the hosts (all industry professionals) reported that work on the remaster, which they revealed was in the works a year ago, has now ceased due to the Skydance merger.

Very disappointing, but maybe Ellison’s team will be keener to do a complete remaster than RMB said the current decision-makers were with the original version (unless that info was wrong). Probably wisest to assume the worst until we learn otherwise though.

I had the privilege of speaking to an insider as well.
All I will say is, I got way too deep into this, and I shouldn't have managed to get as deep as I have.
I feel like I've robbed myself of being in the dark.
No one told me it was happening, and no one told me it was cancelled.
Simply, this, it's probably going to resume next year.
I won't name drop.
I didn't hear this podcast, although I'm betting they implied it paused, and wasn't a cancellation, more merger stuff.
Merger stuff anyone could have guessed in July.
If that gives you any hope.

My speculation,
The brand is healthy, Paramount is focussing on expanding it's library for streaming as it's somehow turning a profit.
The 60th anniversary is incoming, there's money to be made, and demand for the content, etc.

[eastx]

I hope we do get the show in HD someday! I'm currently watching through the series for the first time, and I'm on Season 5.

Here's a Cameo I got from Garak!

Andrew Robinson (Garak) Christmas Cameo for Paul and Brandy - YouTube

[milojthatch]

Originally Posted by Trekkie313

Given the popularity resurgence in anything Trek these last few years, not doing a remaster seems extremely shortsighted...Paramount acting like lazy WB.

Originally Posted by cavedoctor

My speculation,
The brand is healthy, Paramount is focussing on expanding it's library for streaming as it's somehow turning a profit.
The 60th anniversary is incoming, there's money to be made, and demand for the content, etc.

"Popularity resurgence?" "The brand is healthy?" You're joking, surly.

Just because they keep spiting up content and slapping the words "star" and "trek" over it doesn't mean it's healthy. It means that Alex Kurtzman got a sweetheart deal from Les Moonves before he went out the door. It means that the current CBS execs have calculated that it would cost them less money for now to let Kurtzman pump out his gutter trash than to fire him. Something I'm hearing the guys at Skydance might have a different take on.

All one has to do to see the true health of the franchise is look at the ratings. The best of the Kurtzman era wishes it had the ratings of Star Trek: Enterprise, which Moonves canceled 20-years-ago due to poor ratings.

All one has to do to see the true health of the franchise is look at merchandise, which is hard to find in stores (unlike Mario, Sonic or Bluey) and when they do put out new merchandise, it tends to skew towards TOS or TNG (because that's what actually sells).

When I was a kid in the 90's, the actually strongest era of the Star Trek brand, I could go into any toy store or toy section and it would not be hard to see very prominently the Playmate Toys Star Trek section. Tons and tons of Star Trek action figures! A few years ago, Playmate Toys tried to re-do it. Walmart and Target carried the first wave, but it was A.) never as prominent as in the 90's and B.) didn't take long till what was left of the series got dumped online. It's an action figure series that pales in comparison to the original 30ish years ago.

I could keep going, but I hope I've made my point.

Here's probably something closer to reality. CBS/Paramount have not restored DS9 and Voyager to HD because A.) It's not an Alex Kurtzman property and B.) It's not TOS or TNG. Enterprise only got through the finish line because it was already in HD.

I'm going to put a prediction up, feel free to come back here later in the future to see how close I was:

DS9 and Voyager will not get the HD treatment until A.) Alex Kurtzman has nothing to do with the brand anymore and B.) It is no longer cost prohibitive as a result of emerging technologies.

The one good news here is, possibly both of these issues could be settled as soon as 2025. We'll see. I feel it comes down the the Skydance executives and how important it is for the to actually have a Star Trek brand that is healthy and not just seeming like it because Kurtzman says so on the Star Trek Facebook page. Also, I agree, the I Love Lucy/ AI debacle will play a factor too.

[cavedoctor]

Originally Posted by milojthatch

"Popularity resurgence?" "The brand is healthy?" You're joking, surly.

Just because they keep spiting up content and slapping the words "star" and "trek" over it doesn't mean it's healthy. It means that Alex Kurtzman got a sweetheart deal from Les Moonves before he went out the door. It means that the current CBS execs have calculated that it would cost them less money for now to let Kurtzman pump out his gutter trash than to fire him. Something I'm hearing the guys at Skydance might have a different take on.

All one has to do to see the true health of the franchise is look at the ratings. The best of the Kurtzman era wishes it had the ratings of Star Trek: Enterprise, which Moonves canceled 20-years-ago due to poor ratings.

All one has to do to see the true health of the franchise is look at merchandise, which is hard to find in stores (unlike Mario, Sonic or Bluey) and when they do put out new merchandise, it tends to skew towards TOS or TNG (because that's what actually sells).

When I was a kid in the 90's, the actually strongest era of the Star Trek brand, I could go into any toy store or toy section and it would not be hard to see very prominently the Playmate Toys Star Trek section. Tons and tons of Star Trek action figures! A few years ago, Playmate Toys tried to re-do it. Walmart and Target carried the first wave, but it was A.) never as prominent as in the 90's and B.) didn't take long till what was left of the series got dumped online. It's an action figure series that pales in comparison to the original 30ish years ago.

I could keep going, but I hope I've made my point.

Here's probably something closer to reality. CBS/Paramount have not restored DS9 and Voyager to HD because A.) It's not an Alex Kurtzman property and B.) It's not TOS or TNG. Enterprise only got through the finish line because it was already in HD.

I'm going to put a prediction up, feel free to come back here later in the future to see how close I was:

DS9 and Voyager will not get the HD treatment until A.) Alex Kurtzman has nothing to do with the brand anymore and B.) It is no longer cost prohibitive as a result of emerging technologies.

The one good news here is, possibly both of these issues could be settled as soon as 2025. We'll see. I feel it comes down the the Skydance executives and how important it is for the to actually have a Star Trek brand that is healthy and not just seeming like it because Kurtzman says so on the Star Trek Facebook page. Also, I agree, the I Love Lucy/ AI debacle will play a factor too.

I'm not a fan of the Kurtzman era either, I'll agree.
But I think there's more to that, Kurtzman claimed the brand was healthy, but I think the DS9 remaster started somewhere in 2021 or 2023, and paused somewhere last year, my theory is they're close to wrapping that up before they start Voyager, after the merger goes down.
As for everything else, I've been reading the reddit board about Paramount global stocks to monitor that, and it looks like a giant cluster**** with the Ellison's buying Paramount, but we'll see.
I think DS9 is on the way.
As for emerging technology, if a fan can do an upscale from a DVD, that's amazing, if the studio does it, and has access to a film negative, it's a load of shit.
As for it being cost prohibitive, 12 shows without conformed negatives have been remastered, that's 12 times.
Everyone says it's herculean to do, was it herculean to master DS9 the first time?
Was it Herculean to master LOST the first time?
No.
We've been through 12 remasters now, and more to come, I'm betting.
The Sopranos is getting a 4k remaster right now. It's not as hard as everyone makes it out to be.

[milojthatch]

Originally Posted by cavedoctor

I'm not a fan of the Kurtzman era either, I'll agree.
But I think there's more to that, Kurtzman claimed the brand was healthy, but I think the DS9 remaster started somewhere in 2021 or 2023, and paused somewhere last year, my theory is they're close to wrapping that up before they start Voyager, after the merger goes down.
As for everything else, I've been reading the reddit board about Paramount global stocks to monitor that, and it looks like a giant cluster**** with the Ellison's buying Paramount, but we'll see.
I think DS9 is on the way.
As for emerging technology, if a fan can do an upscale from a DVD, that's amazing, if the studio does it, and has access to a film negative, it's a load of shit.
As for it being cost prohibitive, 12 shows without conformed negatives have been remastered, that's 12 times.
Everyone says it's herculean to do, was it herculean to master DS9 the first time?
Was it Herculean to master LOST the first time?
No.
We've been through 12 remasters now, and more to come, I'm betting.
The Sopranos is getting a 4k remaster right now. It's not as hard as everyone makes it out to be.

I just heard that LEGO is finally putting out a Star Trek set later in the year. From what I hear, the executives at Skydance really want Star Trek to make a comeback and there might be growing evidence to point to that. We might just see a number of moves this year as we get closer to the 60th anniversary. Time will tell. Honestly, while I don't know if Trek can be saved as I feel it's been so damaged, in my heart of hearts, I want it to be saved. Maybe Skydance to pull it off?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by milojthatch

I could keep going, but I hope I've made my point.

Yeah. You're butthurt and full of it when it comes to modern Star Trek.

Merchandising has never been the strong suit, the market for action figures died while DS9 was wrapping up its run. Meanwhile the ships like the new USS Stargazer are going for insane prices on eBay right now despite being merely sold out and not out of production. And, oh look, if you try and subscribe it's temporarily unavailable due to demand.
https://www.fanhome.com/us/movie-ser...trek-starships

So no matter how many of you guys who have hate boners for Kurtzman, whether DS9 is in HD has nothing to do with he being in charge or not. Skydance put him in charge of the reboot films in the first place, so don't get your hopes up. In the meantime, stop with the misinformation. It's sickening how horrible this section of the so-called fanbase has become.

[Havenbull]

I agree with the broader point that Kurtzman Trek does not resonate or create sufficient buzz with audiences. I don't see any re-watch value, and cannot see myself viewing any episode of Kurtztrek a second time.

I don't think there is any way folks in 20 or 30 years will talk about DISCO and SNW the way we do TNG and DS9.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Havenbull

I agree with the broader point that Kurtzman Trek does not resonate or create sufficient buzz with audiences. I don't see any re-watch value, and cannot see myself viewing any episode of Kurtztrek a second time.

I don't think there is any way folks in 20 or 30 years will talk about DISCO and SNW the way we do TNG and DS9.

I think they'll be talking about SNW, LD, PRO, and whatever's next coming down the pike (no pun intended). DSC will probably be reassessed as a show that tried to do something new with the franchise.

VOY & ENT seem to be forgotten (and that fans were calling for Berman & Braga to be fired), that GEN was a critical disappointment, that INS was a box office disappointment and NEM was an outright bomb (only FC resonated with fans & critics). Now it's come out that Berman's behavior towards his female staff/stars was less than savory. I doubt they'll be talking about Kurtzman in 20-30 years like that.

[Havenbull]

You think in the year 2055 that SNW, LD, PRO will have the same level of veneration that TNG and DS9 enjoy in 2025?

No way.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Havenbull

You think in the year 2055 that SNW, LD, PRO will have the same level of veneration that TNG and DS9 enjoy in 2025?

No way.

Did you take a trip in your time machine to let us know 100% for sure?

[cavedoctor]

Honestly, Kurtzman worked miracles with Orci, Abrams and Lindelof, and I'll die on the Kelvin timeline hill.
I'm only here for DS9 and Voyager remasters, and hoping Academy does something great.
As for Discovery,
Magic to make the sanest man go mad was pretty good, and time heals all wounds.
But I'm still digging on these remasters, and hopefully we hear something very soon.
But it's a good catch to point out, Skydance put Kurtzman where he is in the first place, hence it's midnight's edge level disinfo that he's going anywhere.
I'm not a fan of Discovery, and want to like SNW, but Discovery season 3's explanation for "The Burn" was just beyond stupid.

[Geoff D]

Re: the wider point of rebuilding a video-finished show from the film negatives, I don't think anyone ever said it was impossible on a technical level. But it takes a lot of time and thus a lot of money to do such a thing so the corporate wheels turn ever so slowly, especially when aksing the bean-counters to spunk millions of dollars on retuning some old TV show, no matter how legendary the IP might be. That's why we haven't had a glut of rebuilds over the last decade or so. Some, yes, but not a tidal wave because the obstacles are the same as they've ever been: time and money. And certain shows actually had a cut negative to begin with e.g. Friends which removed a major obstacle in assembling and made it relatively cheaper to newly rescan (and not once, but twice in the case of Friends).

The addition of 4K HDR in recent years has also brought another layer of, if not difficulty then cost to consider. If you future proof it you'll be set for decades but it'll cost more up front, and studios are not renowned for how forward-thinking they are. Emerging technologies don't really matter either, you either scan this stuff from the camera negatives or you don't (and automated matching systems like that used by Illuminate/HTV have been around for years when it comes to assembling the footage). Maybe AI upscaling could make the CG elements in DS9 and Voyager more palatable to remaster cost-wise - tho there's still a lot of miniature work in DS9, especially in the early seasons - and speaking purely for me I'd take it if it meant the difference in getting those shows in HD (or even 4K) or not. I'm currently enjoying the hell out of Babylon 5 on Blu-ray, grotty old Amiga VFX and all.

[DasRetroKid]

While I have not watched DISC, SNW is some of the very best "modern" Trek IMO.

[cavedoctor]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Re: the wider point of rebuilding a video-finished show from the film negatives, I don't think anyone ever said it was impossible on a technical level. But it takes a lot of time and thus a lot of money to do such a thing so the corporate wheels turn ever so slowly, especially when aksing the bean-counters to spunk millions of dollars on retuning some old TV show, no matter how legendary the IP might be. That's why we haven't had a glut of rebuilds over the last decade or so. Some, yes, but not a tidal wave because the obstacles are the same as they've ever been: time and money. And certain shows actually had a cut negative to begin with e.g. Friends which removed a major obstacle in assembling and made it relatively cheaper to newly rescan (and not once, but twice in the case of Friends).

The addition of 4K HDR in recent years has also brought another layer of, if not difficulty then cost to consider. If you future proof it you'll be set for decades but it'll cost more up front, and studios are not renowned for how forward-thinking they are. Emerging technologies don't really matter either, you either scan this stuff from the camera negatives or you don't (and automated matching systems like that used by Illuminate/HTV have been around for years when it comes to assembling the footage). Maybe AI upscaling could make the CG elements in DS9 and Voyager more palatable to remaster cost-wise - tho there's still a lot of miniature work in DS9, especially in the early seasons - and speaking purely for me I'd take it if it meant the difference in getting those shows in HD (or even 4K) or not. I'm currently enjoying the hell out of Babylon 5 on Blu-ray, grotty old Amiga VFX and all.

I'm with you 100 percent, but from what I gather, the VFX artists who worked on those shows are going to get another crack at doing those VFX in HD, apparently.
Although, considering they worked on B5 too, they probably would defend the upscaling if it meant the release happened.