Screenshot Comparisons 4K

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

He's entitled to his opinion, but it appears to be a minority view from those who have seen and compared the UHD discs. Just because the detail level is the same, doesn't mean the PQ doesn't look much better. It does, even on my non-HDR TV.

What's the contrast like when you're comparing them? Can you see more in the highlights/lowlights on the UHD Blu than on the Blu?

[Adrian Wright]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

If all he cares about is resolution, then he can just buy the movies that have a 4K DI.

Damn straight there Bruce

[MisterXDTV]

I posted this because he took the best pictures so far off the screen....

Anyway, my idea from outside is simply that these movies are (for the most part) upscaled and re-graded for HDR, but I don't think the re-grade is better than the BD, is simply DIFFERENT

On a non-HDR screen I would trust the BD grading to be the correct one.... The HDR->SDR conversion done by the player looks very suspicious....

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What's the contrast like when you're comparing them? Can you see more in the highlights/lowlights on the UHD Blu than on the Blu?

Yes, I can see more dynamic range, even though my TV is non-HDR. Look at the dark areas in the first pics above and you can see the outlines in the roofs a lot clearer. The picture is a little brighter, but I can easily adjust that in the settings (I think I like to use dynamic in the day and movie at night).

I thought I was seeing a little more detail, but it's just that the picture is much fuller now.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Yes, I can see more dynamic range, even though my TV is non-HDR. Look at the dark areas in the first pics above and you can see the outlines in the roofs a lot clearer. The picture is a little brighter, but I can easily adjust that in the settings (I think I like to use dynamic in the day and movie at night).

I thought I was seeing a little more detail, but it's just that the picture is much fuller now.

Hmmm. Makes it sound like the HDR playback on the non-HDR TV is a 'pick your own' kinda deal, i.e. you might as well tweak it to how you like. But seeing as I've lovingly calibrated my set to have a very accurate SDR 709 response, I HATE the idea of throwing that out of the window and ending up flying blind. Hopefully someone somewhere will get one of these on a test bench and measure just what it's actually doing to the SDR output. And pigs might fly.

[vincentric]

Well, I did a quick upscale comparison of that first Kingsman shot that Bruce shared.

I captured directly from the BD -

Native 1920 x 1080 -


I took that native 1920 x 1080 image and did a quick bicubic 3840 x 2160 upscale -


Lastly, here's that same native 1920 x 1080 image but with VLC media player in fullscreen mode (no bicubic filtering) -


Bicubic upscale is noticeably sharper than VLC fullscreen but it contains ringing artifacts most notably visible along the bottom edge of the screen.

Captured those while on a Sony 55x810c using default cinema pro picture settings and Flickr to host the images.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

I posted this because he took the best pictures so far off the screen....

Anyway, my idea from outside is simply that these movies are (for the most part) upscaled and re-graded for HDR, but I don't think the re-grade is better than the BD, is simply DIFFERENT

On a non-HDR screen I would trust the BD grading to be the correct one.... The HDR->SDR conversion done by the player looks very suspicious....

I agree that the colors are a little different (don't know which would be more "correct" though, it's not a huge deal to me) but it doesn't take away from the fact that the UHD picture also looks much sharper and with more dynamic range.

[MisterXDTV]

Vincentric, your pictures show clearly in my opinion that on SDR screens, the Blu-ray grading is just perfect....

The UHD grading is just wrong in comparison.

UHD BD on SDR screens will never give you the same results...

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

I agree that the colors are a little different (don't know which would be more "correct" though, it's not a huge deal to me) but it doesn't take away from the fact that the UHD picture also looks much sharper and with more dynamic range.

Sharper OK, more dynamic range? Your TV doesn't have more dynamic range than yesterday.... It's still the same...

the content is mastered with more dynamic range, but your TV can't display it the right way, so what's the point?

The only upgrade you can see is the 8 bit to 10 bit (if you can see it, I don't know)

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hmmm. Makes it sound like the HDR playback on the non-HDR TV is a 'pick your own' kinda deal, i.e. you might as well tweak it to how you like. But seeing as I've lovingly calibrated my set to have a very accurate SDR 709 response, I HATE the idea of throwing that out of the window and ending up flying blind. Hopefully someone somewhere will get one of these on a test bench and measure just what it's actually doing to the SDR output. And pigs might fly.

Well if the colors are off a tad then in my case ignorance is bliss. Anyway the huge upgrade in PQ far outweighs that IMO. Hopefully though there's a secret setting hidden in the player that I can turn HDR off, or at least in the Oppo/Panny player coming out later (I'll want the Oppo myself).

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Sharper OK, more dynamic range? Your TV doesn't have more dynamic range than yesterday.... It's still the same...

the content is mastered with more dynamic range, but your TV can't display it the right way, so what's the point?

The only upgrade you can see is the 8 bit to 10 bit (if you can see it, I don't know)

Have you watched any UHD discs at home? I'm seeing a much better picture with more highs/lows than on the Blu-ray. That's the "point". If you think BD is the way to go because it looks more "correct" on a non-HDR TV, then fine. For me the difference is too great to throw it all away because the colors don't look exactly the same.

[Frank@Chicago]

I'm really not too surprised, his 4K set (AVS guy) is going to up upconvert the BD by default, whereas the typical UHD is already upconverted for you.

The whole 4K-rebuilding thing sounds great till you realize Hollywood is addicted to effects shots or background adds as a cost-saver (verses actually building stuff).

At that point, you're down to a modest rez increase, better compression, and a different color grade.

I'm not writing off UHD, if they ever get it working on PS4, I buy a disc or two to check it out.

My set isn't HDR, so I'm not really feeling like I need to rush in to this.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Have you watched any UHD discs at home? I'm seeing a much better picture with more highs/lows than on the Blu-ray. That's the "point".

We are in a topic called "screenshots comparisons". If I can't discuss the different color choices on both discs, this topic is useless...

I get that you think your new discs are amazing, but from what I have seen on these screens, the color is radically changed and mastered for HDR screens, I don't think that's up for debate.... Even the player itself sends a warning when it's not connected to an HDR screen....

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

We are in a topic called "screenshots comparisons". If I can't discuss the different color choices on both discs, this topic is useless...

I get that you think your new discs are amazing, but from what I have seen on these screens, the color is radically changed and mastered for HDR screens, I don't think that's up for debate.... Even the player itself sends a warning when it's not connected to an HDR screen....

You can discuss color choices all you want. That's one of the reasons I posted the pics in the first place. Obviously those color differences are more important to you than to myself. When I played the movie, the last thing on my mind was whether the colors were correct, but rather how good the movie looked compared the Blu-ray. That's what screenshot comparisons are about too, right? (although the above cell pics don't begin to do the UHD justice, the difference is greater than that shown).

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

You can discuss color choices all you want. That's one of the reasons I posted the pics in the first place. Obviously those color differences are more important to you than to myself. When I played the movie, the last thing on my mind was whether the colors were correct, but rather how good the movie looked compared the Blu-ray. That's what screenshot comparisons are about too, right? (although the above cell pics don't begin to do the UHD justice, the difference is greater than that shown).

The problem is I can't judge sharpness or details based on those pictures....

But I can see the drastic change in colors and contrast/brightness.
And those are calibrated exclusively for HDR displays....

[katiehlvr2]

Then dont buy one. Obviously the uhd disc playback is fine to him. (And many others from what I am reading)
He has a display and a tv. You do not. Your opinion is coming from pictures.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

But I can see the drastic change in colors and contrast/brightness.
And those are calibrated exclusively for HDR displays....

Like I said, that's why I posted them.

Perhaps someone else can post UHD vs. BD comparison pics from an HDR TV so we can see how spot-on identical they look color-wise. Since you've already established that the BD looks perfect.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Like I said, that's why I posted them.

Perhaps someone else can post UHD vs. BD comparison pics from an HDR TV so we can see how spot-on identical they look color-wise. Since you've already established that the BD looks perfect.

I guess it's perfect as it was mastered for SDR displays and the master is basically a "reduction" of the theatrical DCP...

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

I guess it's perfect as it was mastered for SDR displays and the master is basically a "reduction" of the theatrical DCP...

Then it follows that the UHD on an HDR will have the same color grade. Will look forward to any pics from an HDR display...

[dvdmike]

Wonder if a HDCP defeater would do anyhting