HDTVTEST (Vincent Teoh) Discussion Thread

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Well I know; it's not 3D. Then just wait for Avatar 2.

Lol. I was referring to the horrendous 4K version of zMiddle Earth which underwent unnecessary digital and cosmetic surgery at the hands of PJ.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Lol. I was referring to the horrendous 4K version of zMiddle Earth which underwent unnecessary digital and cosmetic surgery at the hands of PJ.

I knew that; I was just humorous.

Vincent is a humorous guy too.

[INdetectableMAN]

What Samsung is doing is very simple. It is raising the average brightness level of the image with dynamic tone mapping.

The problem is that dynamic tone mapping can't be turned off, it's always on.

And what is worse, it does not offer an alternative that is faithful to the original intention.

And it's a shame because it seems like a technology that eliminates the problems of uniformity of LG Woled panels, which is the Achilles heel that LG has not known how to get rid of.

I hope Samsung comes up with a solution to this unacceptable problem with dynamic tone mapping, otherwise in the American Shootout LG and Sony will eat it alive, when in fact it could have swept it away.

By the way, Vicent Teoh is a huge professional, one of the best in the world.

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by INdetectableMAN

What Samsung is doing is very simple. It is raising the average brightness level of the image with dynamic tone mapping.

The problem is that dynamic tone mapping can't be turned off, it's always on.

And what is worse, it does not offer an alternative that is faithful to the original intention.

And it's a shame because it seems like a technology that eliminates the problems of uniformity of LG Woled panels, which is the Achilles heel that LG has not known how to get rid of.

I hope Samsung comes up with a solution to this unacceptable problem with dynamic tone mapping, otherwise in the American Shootout LG and Sony will eat it alive, when in fact it could have swept it away.

By the way, Vicent Teoh is a huge professional, one of the best in the world.

I don't think their goal is to win shootouts. It's to sell TVs to people who don't really understand what HDR is all about and think it's too dim, which in fairness to them, is the majority of people.

[INdetectableMAN]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

I don't think their goal is to win shootouts. It's to sell TVs to people who don't really understand what HDR is all about and think it's too dim, which in fairness to them, is the majority of people.

It is correct, the main objective is to sell TVs. However, this type of end user cares very little whether the TV incorporates a precise mode or not, therefore, incorporating a precise mode as an alternative does not alter the objective of selling TVs because for inexperienced users it is something that it doesn't matter

Simply introduce a precise mode as an alternative and satisfy the needs of the most demanding users facing websites and specialized press where this type of issue is examined with a magnifying glass.

And the Shootouts are more important than you think.

Remember that for an American Shootout, LG sent its video engineers, and when they won the event they celebrated it in style, therefore, at the image level on websites and specialized reviews, winning a Shootout of these characteristics is also important.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by INdetectableMAN

I hope Samsung comes up with a solution to this unacceptable problem with dynamic tone mapping, otherwise in the American Shootout LG and Sony will eat it alive, when in fact it could have swept it away.

The A95K was always going to win over the S95B. Which is still going to be a victory for QD-OLED as a display tech, and you can still give Samsung Display credit for the strengths of the panel they've made.

I'm curious to see how the LCDs fare this year. Sony's X95K and Z9K seem like they could be something special, but I still think an OLED like the A95K will be the overall winner.

[INdetectableMAN]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

The A95K was always going to win over the Q95S. Which is still going to be a victory for QD-OLED as a display tech, and you can still give Samsung Display credit for the strengths of the panel they've made.

I'm curious to see how the LCDs fare this year. Sony's X95K and Z9K seem like they could be something special, but I still think an OLED like the A95K will be the overall winner.

But does the A95K have a precise mode that doesn't raise the brightness above the correct due to invincible dynamic tone mapping?

If you don't have it, you won't win. You see that a lot in a professional Shootout.

If you don't wear it, you will win in the lighted room section, that's for sure, but that's the minor prize.

In any case, these panels represent an important step forward with OLED technology, and as far as we know, they have already proven to have many more qualities than the traditional LG display Woled panels.

As for full array LED screens, it is an obsolete technology and completely surpassed by the current state of new technologies and formats. They are expensive and mediocre with excessive problems. The future is self-emissive technologies. Looking at the LEDs is looking back.

[INdetectableMAN]

Sorry, I have seen that the A95K is the Sony model

I agree, I also think he will win.

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by INdetectableMAN

It is correct, the main objective is to sell TVs. However, this type of end user cares very little whether the TV incorporates a precise mode or not, therefore, incorporating a precise mode as an alternative does not alter the objective of selling TVs because for inexperienced users it is something that it doesn't matter

Simply introduce a precise mode as an alternative and satisfy the needs of the most demanding users facing websites and specialized press where this type of issue is examined with a magnifying glass.

And the Shootouts are more important than you think.

Remember that for an American Shootout, LG sent its video engineers, and when they won the event they celebrated it in style, therefore, at the image level on websites and specialized reviews, winning a Shootout of these characteristics is also important.

LG cares a lot more about accuracy, though. Same with Sony and Panasonic. This is why most of us own a set from one of these manufacturers.

Samsung seemingly isn't even remotely interested in catering to us.

[I DO BLU]

Before you assume

YouTube

[Geoff D]

Bollocks to that. People go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about "perfect black" on OLED but near-black shite like that is a deal-breaker for me, always has been. The A95K sounds verr tempting but I'm still leaning more towards the X95K.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Bollocks to that. People go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about "perfect black" on OLED but near-black shite like that is a deal-breaker for me, always has been. The A95K sounds verr tempting but I'm still leaning more towards the X95K.

The lack of OG BMD and the usage of X-wide does not sound very promising to me. I have a feeling both the X95K and Z9K will once again not be able to control blooming like a certain Sony TV from 2016 does (in particular the 75" model). Fingers crossed though, and I hope I am wrong!

I'm keeping a close eye on the X95K and Z9K – as well as the A95K – and really looking forward in reading reviews for all of them.

Btw, you're not looking at the A80J anymore?

[LordoftheRings]

I think we are just startin' to be kookin' ...

The new KOOLED?
▪︎https://www.t3.com/us/news/samsungs-...oks-incredible

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by I DO BLU

Before you assume
https://youtube.com/watch?v=iF7Ieqxj4K0

Vincent's in top gun professional video shape

[lgans316]

Samsung S95B:

Near black is too dark. But you can set shadow detail to plus 2 and mostly fixes it in filmmaker mode (plus set st2084 to -3). Just watched The Batman in it which is very dark shadowy scenes with tons of bright red. Perfect movie to watch on it.

[INdetectableMAN]

Some OLEDs may experience some kind of problem, insignificant, almost black.

This is true, and we will not deny it.

But the near-black issues that Full Array LED technology has are much worse, and it has a lot more near-black shit.

You've got blooming, DSE, cloudiness, shadow detail crushing, and all sorts of rear-backlight-related artifacts.

Says someone who has had Sony ZD9, XF900, Panasonic DX902 and Samsung Q9fn and Q90R.

They are good televisions, but in terms of problems and artifacts they are light years away from OLEDs.

It is an outdated technology, largely surpassed by new trends and technologies.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by INdetectableMAN

Some OLEDs may experience some kind of problem, insignificant, almost black.

This is true, and we will not deny it.

But the near-black issues that Full Array LED technology has are much worse, and it has a lot more near-black shit.

You've got blooming, DSE, cloudiness, shadow detail crushing, and all sorts of rear-backlight-related artifacts.

Says someone who has had Sony ZD9, XF900, Panasonic DX902 and Samsung Q9fn and Q90R.

They are good televisions, but in terms of problems and artifacts they are light years away from OLEDs.

It is an outdated technology, largely surpassed by new trends and technologies.

Eh... Are you sure you quoted the right post?

[INdetectableMAN]

No, it was a mistake. It's already edited

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DJR662

The lack of OG BMD and the usage of X-wide does not sound very promising to me. I have a feeling both the X95K and Z9K will once again not be able to control blooming like a certain Sony TV from 2016 does (in particular the 75" model). Fingers crossed though, and I hope I am wrong!

I'm keeping a close eye on the X95K and Z9K – as well as the A95K – and really looking forward in reading reviews for all of them.

Btw, you're not looking at the A80J anymore?

No, 'twas a brief dalliance with going bigger (77") for a low low price but it'd be too big, and although OLED's various foibles seem minimised I still don't think it's the tech for me. LCD has its own issues - and I've never, ever said it didn't - but I'd just be changing one set of problems around black level for another, as well as all the other issues like vertical banding, tinting, DSE that not even almighty OLED can circumvent and is purely down to panel lottery (this 65ZD9 being the cleanest panel I've ever owned).

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by INdetectableMAN

As for full array LED screens, it is an obsolete technology and completely surpassed by the current state of new technologies and formats. They are expensive and mediocre with excessive problems. The future is self-emissive technologies. Looking at the LEDs is looking back.

Mini LED backlight is a recent development for LCDs, though. And in Sony's case, this year is the first ever they adopt it for their TVs. As long as improvements can be made, LCD isn't quite dead yet. Right now, these are the two dominant competing techs, and each is better than the other in different areas. I don't see myself as a fanboy or hater of either, I just want to see manufacturers make good TVs.

Originally Posted by INdetectableMAN

Sorry, I have seen that the A95K is the Sony model

I agree, I also think he will win.

Indeed. As I'm sure you're aware, Sony purchase QD-OLED panels from Samsung Display and use these in the A95K.

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

LG cares a lot more about accuracy, though. Same with Sony and Panasonic. This is why most of us own a set from one of these manufacturers.

Samsung seemingly isn't even remotely interested in catering to us.

It's a shame too, because with their resources Samsung could make some beastly TVs if they could be bothered to care about accuracy and quality control. I don't understand why it'd be so hard to have some more accurate picture modes, and reserve the "pop" for vivid or such, and thus they could cater to everyone and have their cake and eat it too. But they just don't care.

Originally Posted by DJR662

The lack of OG BMD and the usage of X-wide does not sound very promising to me. I have a feeling both the X95K and Z9K will once again not be able to control blooming like a certain Sony TV from 2016 does (in particular the 75" model). Fingers crossed though, and I hope I am wrong!

I'm keeping a close eye on the X95K and Z9K – as well as the A95K – and really looking forward in reading reviews for all of them.

To be fair, Sony have revised X-Wide Angle at least twice - maybe thrice? - since it was introduced. The X-Wide we see today isn't the same that made blacks gray on the Z9F back in 2018. That's not to say it doesn't affect the native contrast ratio at all anymore; it does, but it's not as bad as it was. And paired with a better local dimming algorithm and many more local dimming zones, these 'K' sets are going to be able to compensate much better I think.

Sony themselves are promising "OLED-like black levels" on the X95K, and certainly many of those who have seen them have been impressed. But the proof will be in the pudding as always, and we'll have to wait for proper reviews and owner feedback to see how they really perform.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No, 'twas a brief dalliance with going bigger (77") for a low low price but it'd be too big, and although OLED's various foibles seem minimised I still don't think it's the tech for me. LCD has its own issues - and I've never, ever said it didn't - but I'd just be changing one set of problems around black level for another, as well as all the other issues like vertical banding, tinting, DSE that not even almighty OLED can circumvent and is purely down to panel lottery (this 65ZD9 being the cleanest panel I've ever owned).

Something I've been happy to hear about QD-OLED so far: it seems to be a vast improvement over LG Display's WOLED panels in terms of screen uniformity. Part of me can't help but wonder if Samsung are playing a trick on us though; what if they're selecting all the cleanest panels for the first batch in order to make a good first impression?