8K discussion thread

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Joce

I'm sure 8K resolution will be mindblowing (in the case you own a giant 80/100inch screen with a lot of space), it's nice to have a thread to talk about that. But seriously, I don't like the idea to push the thing too fastly. Personally, i don't care if we have to wait 2025 for the first 8K BD's releases, so we can live the present and enjoy our current 4K releases.

Also, current 2017 4K OLED displays have too many problems with banding. This kind of problem has to be fixed before releasing giant 8K displays. Currently, OLED isn't mature enough for giant screens.

Originally Posted by ray0414

From what I can see, that 8k oled is prototype only, won't be for sale this year per LGs release lineup that dropped about 1 hour ago.

Originally Posted by Aidenag

They wont have an 8k set for dale for a few years, and when they do its ganna cost $20k+ for the first few years. This 8k announcement is much the same as that sony 20inch oled that got unveiled at ces all those years ago. Took what a decade after for oled to hit market at consumer level?

Anyway, she'll be @ CES 2018 next week.

And of course that 4K needs more native 4K Blu-ray movie releases.
And of course that OLED needs to fix the banding issues, the motion blur issue, and that image retention is a fact of life with OLED technology, same as Plasma.

Right now we have 30 Dolby Vision titles on 4K BR.
We have roughly over 1,000 3D BR titles also that we can enjoy with new 4K/3D front projectors and all 3D TVs prior to last year, 2017.
We have 1080p Blu-rays too by the tens of thousands...and DVDs in 95% of the homes in all six continents of the globe, including Mexico.

Big flat panel screens, some are 84-96" ...4K. Right now. 100" is there too, Sony OLED, but it is expensive, very.

We are going to see 8K this year, one way or the other, even if it has to come from our iPhones and Androids.

[Rocky Road]

Originally Posted by Aidenag

They wont have an 8k set for dale for a few years, and when they do its ganna cost $20k+ for the first few years. This 8k announcement is much the same as that sony 20inch oled that got unveiled at ces all those years ago. Took what a decade after for oled to hit market at consumer level?

I have been staying away from the 4K Products so far.

I spent money on VCR tapes etc.

I spent Money on CD Players, and DVD Players, and Blurray Players.

Mp3 Players and DAC Players.

CD's and DVD's and Blu-Rays.

I think I'm going to take a break, and see what happens with 8K.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Joce

I'm sure 8K resolution will be mindblowing (in the case you own a giant 80/100inch screen with a lot of space),....

'If the most important aspect of it all is; the cinematographers', as my friend LordoftheRings says, then it will be difficult, to say the least, as science (rather than marketing) indicates…..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post14118911

Furthermore, at the session, Pete explained that “for a medium or a medium-wide shot, even at 120 frames per second in 8K, if you’re walking or something is moving faster than one-tenth of a normal walking pace, it’s going to be out of focus on most shots.”





Which means your camera needs to be locked off, and you need to have a very static environment. It’s beautiful in 8K, but it’s very hard to tell a story with a locked-off camera and people not moving.

[danny24]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Law of diminishing returns applies. You look at a DVD on a HDTV, is watching the same on a UDTV that much better. BD's yes see some processing, interpolation that makes watching them on 4K so much better, is 8K even with 12 bit worth the price of admission? Joce earlier humerous comment does seem to hit home, how will a 2K DI w/HDR look any appreciable better on a 8K versus a 4K? Things always look better on a larger hi-res display, but it will be a good example to study for awhile until ample real 4K or 8K content is available.

That's what worries me with 8K HDTV's, with 4K HDTV's my 1080p BD's upscaled look amazing but with an 8K display it might be similar to how crappy DVD's look on HDTV's upscaled. Of course with an 8K display you could probably set resolution to 4K 2160p, but there would be no point in investing in an 8K display if you have to do that. Obviously 4K UHD BD's will look fine upscaled to 8K, just would hate to see 1080p BD's go the way of DVD's. With 4K upscaling, BD's look amazing on 4K displays. I guess it's just how tech works, out with the old in with the new.

[JohnAV]

From Las Vegas to Tokyo: The journey to 8K - IBC

While Japan has its commitment to start 8K transmissions next year, and South Korea and China will inevitably dominate the retail sector, it is also fair to assume that China will dominate sales of 8K units over the next few years (see chart above).

Paul Gray, Principal Analyst/Consumer Devices at IHS Technology, says that 65-inch sales will be the ‘norm’ as the size represents an optimal production size for large-scale output at sensible prices. But he also cautions that current 8K models are so heavy that they exceed the load-bearing specifications for many walls and floors.

Gray’s sales forecasts for 8K are also modest. He suggests that by 2021 the total global demand for 8K will be less than 3.5 million units, and only a few hundred-thousand units in Japan, where – at least – content will be widely available.

More important in the short to medium term, says Gray, is High Dynamic Range (HDR) displays in either OLED or LCD, and in a Dolby Vision or HDR10 ‘Ultra-HDR Premium’ versions.

The core question for producers, broadcasters and the TV industry is what happens once 4K becomes ubiquitous, or near universal as far as ‘western’ nations and those high-consuming China, Japan and some Asian markets are concerned?

Gray’s IHS forecasts are that by 2021 some 140 million 4K sets will be sold, up from about 85 million displays to be bought in 2018.

The answer is simple: nobody expects the LGs, Sonys or Samsungs to pack up their display businesses. 8K will follow as night follows day, suggest plenty of observers. As with 4K, broadcasters will buy into 8K technology if only to use the ‘Zoom’ function for sports and special events.

The weight of the current 8K TV's as a negative and China being the main future user of 8K TV's is interesting from this article.

[danny24]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

From Las Vegas to Tokyo: The journey to 8K - IBC



The weight of the current 8K TV's as a negative and China being the main future user of 8K TV's is interesting from this article.

I am fine and content with 4K, it has amazing video and audio. I won't upgrade till 8K discs are released domestically. I also don't see any reason to stop buying 4K discs since they would look fine upscaled to 8K resolution.

Yes it's inevitable that 8K HDTV's OLED's, QLED's, LED's will eventually see the light of day as well as 8K UHD Blu-ray. The discs and players probably won't see release till there is enough market saturation with the displays. I'd give it a good 6 to 10 years till 8K discs see release. 4K will eventually become the next 1080p, the HDTV standard.

[JohnAV]

The real question is whether the 6 million 8k sets marketplace prediction at the end of 2021 compared to 140 million 4k sets justifies the entertainment industry effort to supply traditional content above 4k? Here in the states the broadcast standards are so far behind streaming, and 4k UHD BD availability is still marginalized at stores with people still inquiring about 4k sets.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Which means your camera needs to be locked off, and you need to have a very static environment. It’s beautiful in 8K, but it’s very hard to tell a story with a locked-off camera and people not moving.

But there is tangible value (proven) under acquisition and viewing conditions such as this....https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...k#post12947578

For the disorientated, they're ^ in the RUQ of the abdomen.

[danny24]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

The real question is whether the 6 million 8k sets marketplace prediction at the end of 2021 compared to 140 million 4k sets justifies the entertainment industry effort to supply traditional content above 4k? Here in the states the broadcast standards are so far behind streaming, and 4k UHD BD availability is still marginalized at stores with people still inquiring about 4k sets.

Well my last post was my 2 cents, if 8K ever becomes a thing in the next decade (HDTV, player, discs) it will be a niche product as most certainly 1080p and 4K will still be the most normally used and accepted video resolution. People still buy DVD's even if they are standard definition 480p and look slightly crappy even upscaled to 1080p or 4K. I thought years ago in 2018 DVD's would be phased out and Blu-ray would be mainstream, well it's not. DVD's still outsell Blu-ray's even if people are buying an inferior product over HD and Blu-ray 1080p and 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray 2160p. So 8K marketplace traction will take awhile, 4K sets are now huge and selling well. Doubt people want to jump on another format bandwagon so soon. Especially when 1080p BD's look so sweet upscaled to 4K, I can imagine how awful DVD's will look upscaled on an 8K set or the more fuzzy video quality from BD's, unless you made it do 2160p which defeats the purpose of owning anything more than a 4K set. For 8K sets to become more mainstream they will have to incorporate high upscaling/video processing power over any 4K set which I doubt as it would make the TV more expensive for manufacturers to produce.

[Staying Salty]

https://fstoppers.com/originals/chea...t-cheap-210601

8K is coming sooner than you’d think. NHK, Japan’s public service broadcaster, was begun supporting it. This is why Sharp’s $77,000 8K camera and their new 70-inch 8K television (poised for a $9,000 price tag) are so important. It was just two years ago that Sharp debuted the first 8K TV for $133,000. That’s a 93 percent discount! Sure, it’s still expensive, but so was 4K back in the day. Bear in mind that the updated Sharp TV also supports Dolby Vision HDR.

[fistymusic]

Crikey, they haven't even fixed the issues & bugs with 4K yet. Maybe that should be their first priority. I am fed up with upgrading.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by fistymusic

Crikey, they haven't even fixed the issues & bugs with 4K yet. Maybe that should be their first priority. I am fed up with upgrading.

Don't we wish!

No need or want for 8K today. But in 3 years, could be...

[Aidenag]

Anyone got a chart showing optimum viewing distances for 8k? Ive got a feeling 99% of people will have zero use or benefit from it. I can't imagine a 55-75 inch tv at say 9-10ft viewing distance gaining anything from 8k. And honestly, how many folks own 100+ inch screens? Half a percent? Quarter? 0.01? only benefits i see are for theaters, and sports broadcast replays. Absolutely zero use for it for me or ANYONE i know irl to have an 8k tv they would actually benefit from due to size and viewing distance requirements. Hell, most folks couldn't even fit one of they wanted to. whats next after 8k ?16, 32? Does the industry think homes will be expanded and redesigned to fit imax theaters in peoples living rooms? Im fortunate to have a 400sq ft tv room but with windows id be maxed at around 90 inches. And my tv room is by far larger than anyone i know, most folks struggle to find space for even a 65.

Industry resources would be better spent improving led and oled tech at 4k, instead of pushin for 8k.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Aidenag

Anyone got a chart showing optimum viewing distances for 8k? Ive got a feeling 99% of people will have zero use or benefit from it. I can't imagine a 55-75 inch tv at say 9-10ft viewing distance gaining anything from 8k. And honestly, how many folks own 100+ inch screens? Half a percent?

Personally I always find the charts that show some expert stating what they can discern inaccurate at a given distance. You don't need to see the pixels to discern the increased details. Saw this with 720P compared to 1080i, later 1080p compared to 2160P. You always end up with people claiming you need bigger screens and you need to sit closer as resolution goes up.

So you have a 32" 8K HDR capable computer monitor you can compare to a 88" 8K OLED. Go have at it guys!

[tjritter79]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Too soon, no 8K content. Demos, live sports not enough. Use a 8K display for business reasons to show four football or hockey games in a bar or hotel convention room, more likely once broadcast catches up. Internet providers will be gouging all of us sooner then later.

Yeah, and HOW many of them have even upped the ante to 4K?

DirecTV 3 channels. Cable 0-10 depending on system.
Streaming services: Netflix, You Tube, Amazon, some channels on Xumo & Pluto.

The products to view 4K are OUT THERE ALREADY, all that's waiting is for providers to catch-up. That's is why the current 4K market is stuttering, but soon to explode I feel.

8K AGAIN, is a different animal. Sure they can make TV's and put the products out there, but if there is NO 8K CONTENT, well you are in the same boat 4K was 2 years ago. LG has plans for their smallest TV to be 55". Well at that size the human eye CANNOT detect the increased resolution. The "improvement" will be in supplemental technology similar to HDR/DolbyVision which we have now in 4K.
I'm not saying there will be NO market for 8K, I'm saying the market will be small and limited to hard-core videophiles who have to have an 80" screen in a huge media room. I don't think most home-owners have that? I know I can't fit a "bigger than" 60" screen in my house.

[danny24]

What could hurt 8K on the consumer level is the mere fact people are sick of upgrading and 4K is good enough. DVD was an upgrade over VHS and Laserdisc, Blu-ray was an upgrade over DVD, 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray is just an upgrade over 1080p resolution since it's on a Blu-ray disc same format higher resolution at 2160p. It will be niche since it's going to be 8K Blu-ray's, people are going to see it that way.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by danny24

What could hurt 8K on the consumer level is the mere fact people are sick of upgrading and 4K is good enough. DVD was an upgrade over VHS and Laserdisc, Blu-ray was an upgrade over DVD, 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray is just an upgrade over 1080p resolution since it's on a Blu-ray disc same format higher resolution at 2160p. It will be niche since it's going to be 8K Blu-ray's, people are going to see it that way.

That and, practically, 4K is roughly equivalent to 35mm film. There are a lot of films with 2K DIs but you can still tap into thousands upon thousands of movies shot on 35mm film for 4K, if the studios are willing to do so (which they probably will eventually). 8K? You're basically left with IMAX and 65/70mm film, and maybe 35mm if you own a massive display and will be close to it (and the transfer is done properly, which is not guaranteed). It's 2018 and Hollywood still pumps out quite a few films with 2K DIs. It's going to be awhile before native 8K content is readily available, and even then, it's probably going to be very limited for several years.

[Staying Salty]

http://techau.com.au/dont-panic-lgs-...to-your-4k-tv/

The OLED display boasts a crazy resolution of 7680×4320, or with 33 million pixels, which is a tiny 16x more than FHD (1920×1080) and four times more than UHD (3840×2160). So with the conversation turning to 8K, does that mean the 4K TV on your wall is now out of date, obsolete? No not at all for one simple reason, content. We’re still living in a world in 2018 where some of our broadcast television is still in SD, that which is in HD has little or no prospect of being upgraded to 4K anytime soon, so the 4K content is all coming over IP from places like Netflix and YouTube. As much as their content libraries grow, they won’t be upgrading to 8K for many, many years, so don’t stress, 4K is here to stay for a long time.

[tjritter79]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

http://techau.com.au/dont-panic-lgs-...to-your-4k-tv/

Not sure what I like better, the display or the girls!

[philochs]

So the best 8K prototype at CES was Sony's 10,000 nit monster, based on the new forthcoming "X1 Ultimate" processor. From what I am to understand, it basically puts puts the 8K OLED and the 4K MicroLED from Samsung to shame.

Apparently having content viewed/mastered at 10,000 nits is very good for HDR. It's not too bright, just far more lifelike. I sense that within couple years there will be some type of 10,000nit mastered content on Itunes using the AV1 codec. Maybe 4K and even some 8K titles. For UHD Blu-Ray, I suppose studios will start mastering the discs on/for 10,000 nit displays too.

We're reaching the 10,000 nit mark at the very beginning of the 8K era. Much sooner than I anticipated, and it's blowing everyone's minds.