8K discussion thread

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It's the pricing premium on the sets.

Nobody wants to pay double/triple for something that has little to no native content.

Native 8K content for consumers well come most likely around the year 2026+ in the form of either a new 8K optical disc format, and/or 8K streaming. With maybe soon after 8K ATSC, 8K satellite TV, 8K cable TV, and 8K videogames.

We already have native 8K content as studio masters. The 1939 Wizard of Oz and 1939 Gone with the Wind movies received an 8K scan of their 35mm negatives (70mm movies would benefit from 16K scans). There is a huge selection of film-based material between the years 1890 to the early 21st Century that would benefit from an 8K scan depending on the film stock being used. Also, Netflix and other studios have been using native 8K digital cameras in recent years, and as the cost of digital storage falls more movies from various studios well get 8K digital intermediates in the coming years.

Just wait another 3 years and someone like Netflix, Amazon, or VUDU will most likely offer 8K streaming with hopefully lossless audio instead of lossy audio. Also, there is movie directors in Hollywood that have a net worth of $4 billion dollars, and some of the old-time directors like physical media because of the quality, therefore they have the leverage on consumer electronics companies to create a new 8K optical disc format. But the format might end up breaking even and not showing a profit. However, if enough billionaires and millionaire movie directors get together one might see a new 8K Blu-ray format or 8K DVD format, or other 8K optical disc format. Stamped optical discs if stored correctly can last between 1,000-1,500 years and are like a time capsule for all movies including the ones that have $3 billion, $2 billion, and $1 billion dollars in box office sales.

[BLMN]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Native 8K content for consumers well come most likely around the year 2026+ in the form of either a new 8K optical disc format, and/or 8K streaming. With maybe soon after 8K ATSC, 8K satellite TV, 8K cable TV, and 8K videogames.

We already have native 8K content as studio masters. The 1939 Wizard of Oz and 1939 Gone with the Wind movies received an 8K scan of their 35mm negatives (70mm movies would benefit from 16K scans). There is a huge selection of film-based material between the years 1890 to the early 21st Century that would benefit from an 8K scan depending on the film stock being used. Also, Netflix and other studios have been using native 8K digital cameras in recent years, and as the cost of digital storage falls more movies from various studios well get 8K digital intermediates in the coming years.

Just wait another 3 years and someone like Netflix, Amazon, or VUDU will most likely offer 8K streaming with hopefully lossless audio instead of lossy audio. Also, there is movie directors in Hollywood that have a net worth of $4 billion dollars, and some of the old-time directors like physical media because of the quality, therefore they have the leverage on consumer electronics companies to create a new 8K optical disc format. But the format might end up breaking even and not showing a profit. However, if enough billionaires and millionaire movie directors get together one might see a new 8K Blu-ray format or 8K DVD format, or other 8K optical disc format. Stamped optical discs if stored correctly can last between 1,000-1,500 years and are like a time capsule for all movies including the ones that have $3 billion, $2 billion, and $1 billion dollars in box office sales.

Aside from 8K Streaming and 8K games, i don't believe the others will happen not even after 2026.

[Angry Virginian]

Is there any movie that has an 8K DI?

[Robert Zohn]

Here's the link that I bookmarked at the start of our 8K panel discussion. Very informative and interesting discussions!

Best 8K TV and 85" Sony X95L vs Hisense UX Side by Side! - YouTube

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by BLMN

Aside from 8K Streaming and 8K games, i don't believe the others will happen not even after 2026.

I agree. And none of the TV manufacturers have explained how they are going to rebuild all the houses in the UK to make our rooms big enough to put these panels in - or how they are going to give us all the money to afford these massive 8k displays. Which have no content.

Lots of the broadcast content I watch is still Standard Def. I try to watch HD where possible, but if a great programme I want to watch isn't on one of the minority of HD channels here, I'm not going to refuse to watch it. That's as idiotic as someone I knew who refused to watch Citizen Kane because it wasn't in colour! Both SD and HD still have to be upscaled to 4k.

Streaming is another matter which can offer 4K HDR for the latest and greatest dramas and movies. But those are not all of television content by any means.

If the manufacturers think I'm willing to upscale 99% of the content on my next TV, even if it's the best space-age AI rocket-fuelled upscaler in the world, they are going to have a nasty shock, I'm not. I want 4K, but then also with higher frame-rates. I want fully 12 bit panels to properly display Dolby Vision as it was meant to be seen, full rec2020 coverage, improved near-black rendering, perfect mura uniformity, better anti-reflective coatings, longer lifespans, zero tinting and vignetting, etc. A higher resolution (8K) is at the absolute BOTTOM of my wish-list of things I want next. It couldn't be less of a priority, and you'll note I didn't mention higher peak brightness - that magpie-race doesn't matter to me either.

[Telemachus]

8k is so weird. PC gamers sit at or near a desk, so it's not even viable for that, though gaming is where I think it has the most realistic usefulness, but I am still gaming in 1440p because I can get higher framerates out of my videocard. Most console games can't even do 4k 60hz right yet because they are being made for the previous generation still. Not to mention if VR really takes off who wants an 83inch screen to game on you won't need one. And for movies I don't see enough content being made everything is getting remastered in 4k. So what good is an 8k TV just to display classical artwork screensavers on? I equate an 8k screen to something that would be in Epcot center's technology of tomorrow that people are like "ohhh what's that" but no one actually has any use for. I'm glad to see unwanted technology fail because it just never slows down but should.

[smoothbutter]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

8k is so weird. PC gamers sit at or near a desk, so it's not even viable for that, though gaming is where I think it has the most realistic usefulness, but I am still gaming in 1440p because I can get higher framerates out of my videocard. Most console games can't even do 4k 60hz right yet because they are being made for the previous generation still. Not to mention if VR really takes off who wants an 83inch screen to game on you won't need one. And for movies I don't see enough content being made everything is getting remastered in 4k. So what good is an 8k TV just to display classical artwork screensavers on? I equate an 8k screen to something that would be in Epcot center's technology of tomorrow that people are like "ohhh what's that" but no one actually has any use for. I'm glad to see unwanted technology fail because it just never slows down but should.

I disagree about videogames. I own a 85 inch 8k Samsung tv and I can tell a difference up close when it comes to the details and sharpness being better even with a 77 inch 4k OLED being next to it.

8K is less viable for movie's imo.. A lot of movies I can barely tell noticeable differences between the blu ray and 4k if it doesn't have great HDR. The difference between 4k and 8k will be even more miniscule since HDR improvement won't even play a role

[LexInHD]

The first few genuine 8K PC monitors - all high-end - were supposed to be shown off at CES and Computex, to be available this year, but were pulled due to supply chain issues and other electronics industry factors, which made a market launch impossible. Viewsonic, Dell, ASUS, and LG all had samples that they planned to show off.

[nick4Knight]

Originally Posted by Angry Virginian

Is there any movie that has an 8K DI?

Yes. But who cares. That doesn't mean much in terms of hopes of the 8K crowd. There are 12K sensors, there are 16K and 24K camera scans its just flexing/oversampling. Steve Yedlin has most notably demonstrated this idea of "native" is overblown. That the camera/lenses, on set lightning and the upscaling algorithms in post make more difference to detail being resolved in the output resolution.

And the non-delusional among us understand the reality that even today only the most high budget in Hollywood or powerful directors can possibly command 4K CGI effects in a 4K DI. Which are in every scene of most movies. Let alone beyond 2K DI which is still a majority of big studio films. 2K effects routinely get upscaled into 4K DI pipelines. It's not them being cheap. Time is money, and rendering time is the scarce element in the industry. So this emphasis on resolution is mind numbing. Irrelevant.

[Lee A Stewart]

IMO - the only hope for 8K becoming a mass market consumer format is sports. The problem is 8K @ 60FPS is too slow. It has to be either 120 or 240 FPS. Now you are talking about massive amounts of data. Even with the latest VVC codec you are going to cause a severe slow down on the internet. It can't be done live. You will have to buffer.

So why jump through all these hoops when we have 4K? Going from 60 to 120 FPS isn't going to clog the internet especially using VVC.

Each time you increase the resolution, the difference becomes less apparent. The numbers look impressive on spec sheets, but the biggest visual difference to date was going from SD to HD.

The resolution race has ended. 4K WCG HDR won.

[Chad Rouch]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

IMO - the only hope for 8K becoming a mass market consumer format is sports.

Really? Not games? Obviously not movies and TV shows, but you don't think games is the natural outlet for 8k video (when systems get much faster)?

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Chad Rouch

Really? Not games? Obviously not movies and TV shows, but you don't think games is the natural outlet for 8k video (when systems get much faster)?

What percentage of all games released in the last 3 years are 4K @ 120 FPS?

[Modren]

Originally Posted by Chad Rouch

Really? Not games? Obviously not movies and TV shows, but you don't think games is the natural outlet for 8k video (when systems get much faster)?

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

What percentage of all games released in the last 3 years are 4K @ 120 FPS?

Hell, how many games are doing native 4K at even 60fps? Now that games are leaving the PS4 and Xbox One behind and only targeting current-gen, a lot of big releases are actually running in the 1080p-1440p range before upscaling to 4K. Hell, Jedi Survivor actually goes all the way down to 720p even on the Series X and PS5. So even if consoles get 8K support, it'll most likely be upscaled from a sub-4K resolution, and that that point why even bother?

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by gkolb

2001 A Space Odyssey, My Fair Lady, and now West Side Story (1961) mastered in 8K for NHK. Worthy masterpieces. Someday outside of Japan more of us will get to watch them.

Originally Posted by Angry Virginian

Is there any movie that has an 8K DI?

See my previous post about in this thread. 3.

[nick4Knight]

Again you can master some things however you like for archiving etc. If its gonna be under 100 hollywood titles ever end up with an 8K DI, including a large majority of that number contemporary titles like docos and TV productions on netflix (so not the most stunning visual ever) across the next 5 years? That library is not enough to make a whole new format.

The constant pushing for 8K content is so silly. It makes no sense. As been said a million times but it bears repeating... 4K resolution is also silly in of itself. It had to package w/ HDR and WCG to highlight the case for upgrading.

Even then we still got niche adoption on physical. Its gotten ubiquitous in streaming what with the displays coming with HDR/WCG for the most part. Nodoby buys in, per se. It's just there.

With 8K you'd have to buy in heavily. And for what?

[LexInHD]

Personally, I really wish the electronics industry would swerve back into making HDTVs, like they did in the mid-2010's, so that I wouldn't have to buy expensive and hard-to-get digital signage to get a decent sized HDTV display. A bunch of 55-75 inch LED/OLED HDTVs would be perfect for the casual viewing market, where consumers do their purchasing and fit perfectly with the content accessibility through streaming, broadcast, and Blu-Ray.

[Steel76]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

in the form of either a new 8K optical disc format

That's not gonna happen.
Physical collectors are a dying breed, with UHD still being a niche format.
Considering DVD is still the best selling disc format, I doubt any company will invest money in creating yet another physical format.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by LexInHD

Personally, I really wish the electronics industry would swerve back into making HDTVs, like they did in the mid-2010's, so that I wouldn't have to buy expensive and hard-to-get digital signage to get a decent sized HDTV display. A bunch of 55-75 inch LED/OLED HDTVs would be perfect for the casual viewing market, where consumers do their purchasing and fit perfectly with the content accessibility through streaming, broadcast, and Blu-Ray.

Display manufacturing has always been based on economy of scale. It is cheaper to manufacturer one format in various sizes than it is for two or three formats.

$400 for a 65" 4K TV is a very good deal as far as Joe Sixpack is concerned and he drives the market. The lion's share of TVs sold cost less than $500.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Steel76

That's not gonna happen.
Physical collectors are a dying breed, with UHD still being a niche format.
Considering DVD is still the best selling disc format, I doubt any company will invest money in creating yet another physical format.

The BDA has already said: "Pass" on an 8K format. But he is using the past to predict the future. He's not taking into account the fact that consumers are not buying 8KTVs. Without a large installed base, there can be no 8K physical disc.

Only Japan has committed to 8K, and the results are abysmal to say the least. The rest of the world = 4K and that's where the R & D money is going along with content creation.

Business ALWAYS follows the money if they want to be successful.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It's the pricing premium on the sets.

Nobody wants to pay double/triple for something that has little to no native content.

I don't know about that. The issue IMHO is no real distribution model for 8k content.

Before UHD BD came out I was looking for something that will bring me newer films shot/finished in 4k on UHD but I had little hope for older content that was filmed/scanned/finished.... in HD (or less) to be seen on UHD BD but since then I have been pleasantly surprised and rebought on UHD some stuff that was not native 4k. I can see the same with 8k (i.e. a decent HD upscaled by a studio that cares and released on 8k will look better then the HD/UHD copy I have)


But when I bought my first display with HD resolution it only had an NTSC tuner so when ATSC1.0 came out I ended up buying a new HD TV and when BD came out my TV did not have the proper HDMI input so I had to buy a new HDTV to work with BD and my 4k TV does not have an ATSC 3 tuner, now there is no ATSC 3.0 in my area yet but if and when there is and it is in 4k I will need to get new equipment.

You have seen the same with 8K so far. When (if I remember correctly) Samsung inked an agreement with a streaming provider for some 8k content their older TVs were not compatible with it. So buying an 8K display TV does not guarantee that if and when when 8k content becomes available that it will work with that 8k content.