8K discussion thread

[Blu350z]

Youtube uses a different 8K video codec that no TV manufacturer via YouTube app can play.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Blu350z

Youtube uses a different 8K video codec that no TV manufacturer via YouTube app can play.

Apple doesn't even support the older VP9 generally. Such love for Google as it tried to push it own standard over HEVC. Macs can always play VP9/10 content using a non-Apple browser in 8K such as Firefox. I think it's mostly that open source lacks Digital Content Protection reasoning.

When HEVC boasts its efficient 4K video decoding abilities on hardware, VP10 is only applies to YouTube 4K video right now. The other difference between VP10 and HEVC is royalty. VP10 is free and open-sourced that everybody can use it for free while the patented HEVC asks for revenue charges.

[rachaeldeckard]

Originally Posted by Blu350z

Youtube uses a different 8K video codec that no TV manufacturer via YouTube app can play.

Youtube uses the same codec for 8K and 4K which is VP9. TV apps only go up to 4K right now. But I'm not using the TV app. I'm just trying videos on my PC (even though I can't actually output 8K resolution yet).

There are a handful of videos on Youtube that say "8K HDR" but they are only HDR at 4K resolution. At 8K they are SDR. It seems like 8K with HDR is not allowed on Youtube yet.

There are 3 HEVC 8K videos included on the TV's internal storage including one in HDR and they play fine.

When I try to play either 8K VP9 or 8K AVC files on the TV's internal player it gives an error message. Interestingly when I try 8K HEVC it shows the spinning ball like it is trying to play it but it never does. I assume the decoder box will change things and I guess they made a special exception to play the internal HEVC videos right now.

[JohnAV]

8K TV War Intensifies but Consumers Still Prefer 4K - KoreaBizWire 10/24

SEOUL, Oct. 24 (Korea Bizwire) — Although Samsung Electronics Co. and LG Electronics Inc. are currently engaged in a so-called ’8K war’, it is predicted that sales of 8K TV markets will remain sluggish for some time.

In a recent report, global market research firm IHS Markit estimated that the number of 4K TVs sold worldwide this year will exceed 114 million units, up 15.9 percent from last year’s 99.06 million.

The portion of 4K TVs in the overall TV market will exceed half of the total market share for the first time, accounting for 52.1 percent, up 7.3 percentage points from last year.

In particular, as the 4K market continues its steep rise in the future, it is expected that it will take up 56.7 percent of market share next year and enter the 60 percent range in 2021.

In comparison, IHS Markit predicted that 167,000 8K TVs will be sold this year with a 0.1 percent market share.

Although this represents a significant increase from 2,400 units in 2017, when 8K TVs were first released, and 18,600 units last year, the share of the overall market is insignificant.

The reason why the 8K TV market is taking baby steps is because there is little 8K content and prices are still too high.

In addition, the lack of a distinctive image quality gap with 4K TVs is also cited as a reason for the general lack of interest among consumers.

“IHS Markit suggested that 430,000 8K TVs will be sold this year in a report from October last year, but it is revising down its sales forecast for this year,” said an industry analyst.

The official further added that “in the 4K TV market, the market has grown in earnest as the average selling price has dropped below US$2,000. In three to four years, growth of 8K TVs is not going to be fast enough to reach the US$1,000 mark.”

According to IHS Markit, the average unit price of an 8K TV was US$8,182 in 2017, but it fell to US$5,563 this year.

However, the 8K TV market is showing sluggish performance compared to 4K TV, but competition for technology is expected to be fierce.

“Competitive technology quickly expands the market,” said another analyst. “The recent 8K battle between Samsung and LG is based on the judgment that they would be able to dominate the market, only if they prepared.”

Are they really?

[rachaeldeckard]

Consumers have no reason to adopt 8K on their own. It will just be forced on them at some point.

[mdonovan]

Originally Posted by rachaeldeckard

Consumers have no reason to adopt 8K on their own. It will just be forced on them at some point.

agreed ... nothing worthwhile is being authored or shot in 8K.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

“In glaucoma surgery, creating a sclera flap might not require stereoscopic vision so much because an 8K UHD image is easier to be seen than an image through a microscope with natural three-dimensional effect in a wide range” [a notion not ever presented in peer reviewed literature for 4K TVs use in the OR suite], “which might be possible for near-future “heads-up surgery” without observation through microscopic optical system” (Figure 6).

Heads-up surgery -


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6157988/
Thanks to a spokesperson from NHK for alerting me yesterday as to the above paper.

To explain the bolded in red to those not having a trained background in vision science - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVOzlNl__6c#t=59s

[rachaeldeckard]

Originally Posted by mdonovan

agreed ... nothing worthwhile is being authored or shot in 8K.

4K had the advantage of applying to both new and existing content so there was plenty of content available. 8K only applies to new content (and a few existing large format films).

Netflix lead the charge with original 4K content and I would hope they do the same with 8K. The infrastructure for shooting in 8K is mostly in place. We need the bandwidth now. Supposedly the average internet speed in the US is now approaching 100Mbps so that is a good start.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by rachaeldeckard

4K had the advantage of applying to both new and existing content so there was plenty of content available. 8K only applies to new content (and a few existing large format films).

Netflix lead the charge with original 4K content and I would hope they do the same with 8K. The infrastructure for shooting in 8K is mostly in place. We need the bandwidth now. Supposedly the average internet speed in the US is now approaching 100Mbps so that is a good start.

You don't even have the bandwidth for 4k... now you want 8k?? Besides, 8k isn't really worth it unless you have a GIANT screen in your home. 4k with true Rec 2020 and 12 bit and HDR that is standardized would be good enough.


Plus, there's still the little issue of data caps, overage fees, network congestion, and the lack of net neutrality rules now.



The internet is not going well.

[rachaeldeckard]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

You don't even have the bandwidth for 4k... now you want 8k?? Besides, 8k isn't really worth it unless you have a GIANT screen in your home.

I have gigabit internet and an 88" 8K OLED so I am ready.

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

4k with true Rec 2020 and 12 bit and HDR that is standardized would be good enough.

Agreed. Even HD was good enough for most people. 8K only makes sense on giant screens with the proper seating distance. And even then you have to be an enthusiast to truly appreciate the improvement. We are talking single percentage points of the market.

But the hardware makers are pushing it on consumers because obviously they want to sell new TVs. I'm just interested to see if/when the content makers follow.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

You don't even have the bandwidth for 4k... now you want 8k?? Besides, 8k isn't really worth it unless you have a GIANT screen in your home. 4k with true Rec 2020 and 12 bit and HDR that is standardized would be good enough.


Plus, there's still the little issue of data caps, overage fees, network congestion, and the lack of net neutrality rules now.

The internet is not going well.

This is mostly based on SpeedTest data (Ookla) such as this 2018 fixed data. Average is 96.25 Mbps down and 32.88 Mbps up. That tells you a lot of these tests are not the typical ISP because the upload speed is so high. Yeah more like a business account.

The problem is that people that tend to get higher speed agreements with their provider run that test often I guess for ego satisfaction, where as someone that just wants basic internet runs considerable slower and doesn't use speed test ever.

There is also no removal of duplicate results from the same IP address devices I bet. So it just a broad averaging of people running their speed test and thats what they publish. So given that there is so many rural customers, makes you really question this automatic averaging as reality.

However nothing about that says the VoD infrastructure is capable of running that big a increase of packet load on server farms as tens of thousands of VoD 8k streams are initiated, if they would ever come up with standards. Sorry YouTube (VL9) is not a standard any serious VoD is using.

The mobile test for recent 2019 are listed here. That IMHO is a quagmire of various telecoms with limited data limits. 5G is not going to fix that. Average is 33.88 Mbps down and 9.75 Mbps UP.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by rachaeldeckard

But the hardware makers are pushing it on consumers because obviously they want to sell new TVs. I'm just interested to see if/when the content makers follow.

Try looking for standard formats for streaming or physical media against 8K. It doesn't exist yet.

Originally Posted by rachaeldeckard

I have gigabit internet and an 88" 8K OLED so I am ready.

Well if they do get their act together I sincerely hope LG totally supports any format that goes mainstream within the TV or external box they provide. You certainly got a great 8K setup to abide time with.

[Penton-Man]

Sheesh, at the rate you guys here are going with the belittling of 8K, Robert Z. won’t be able to afford to retire until he’s 80 years old. No O.C. fun in the sun for you Robert for quite awhile.

[Blu350z]

I’m jumping in for the 82” Q900R, next week, I can’t wait to get this baby in home. My gaming needs will finally be met.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mdonovan

agreed ... nothing worthwhile is being authored or shot in 8K.

If you plug Monstro 8K and/or Helium 8K in search on the imdb website you can’t find anything worthwhile? Well then, in terms of prosumer quality, by Christmas Sharp plans to offer an ~ $4000 8K camera for your personal home movies (compressed to HEVC).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu350z

I’m jumping in for the 82” Q900R, next week, I can’t wait to get this baby in home. My gaming needs will finally be met.

^ there ya go, finally some positive vibes

[rachaeldeckard]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If you plug Monstro 8K and/or Helium 8K in search on the imdb website you can’t find anything worthwhile?

But all using a 4K or even 2K DI.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by rachaeldeckard

I have gigabit internet and an 88" 8K OLED so I am ready.

You may be ready, but the streaming services are not and will probably never will be. There's no incentive. Most people are "eh... it's good enough" or don't know any better.

[tylerman29]

People are still struggling understanding the difference between DVD and blu ray...8K seems like a niche of a niche.

[rachaeldeckard]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

You may be ready, but the streaming services are not and will probably never will be. There's no incentive. Most people are "eh... it's good enough" or don't know any better.

But my point is consumers don't make the decision. As Henry Ford apocryphally said “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

No one is asking for 8K just like no one asked for 4K or HD before that. At one time VHS was considered "good enough".

Today you have to go out of your way to find a 1080p TV. It won't be long before all TVs over 65" will be 8K no matter what. And when you have the install base someone will want to sell them the content.