8K discussion thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

Same. I don't even think your eyes would be able to the difference between 4K and 8K with a display smaller than 85".

65” 4K UHD tv = 67.78 ppi
65” 8K UHD tv = 135.56 ppi

Purely in terms of resolution (and not even considering the positive additive aspect of immersion/realism as a contributing factor which Lee is alluding to), given the visual acuity of the HVS - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post15637076
a human with ‘normal’ vision can differentiate between 135.56 ppi and 67.78 ppi, just depends on where one sits for which we’re waiting on a precision screen-to-eye shootout from Robert.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

65” 4K UHD tv = 67.78 ppi
65” 8K UHD tv = 135.56 ppi

Purely in terms of resolution (and not even considering the positive additive aspect of immersion/realism as a contributing factor which Lee is alluding to), given the visual acuity of the HVS - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post15637076
a human with ‘normal’ vision can differentiate between 135.56 ppi and 67.78 ppi, just depends on where one sits for which we’re waiting on a precision screen-to-eye shootout from Robert.

Ain't that the kicker though? On a 43" supermarket special viewed from the other side of the living room then even DVD will look rad.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

Same. I don't even think your eyes would be able to the difference between 4K and 8K with a display smaller than 85".

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

It's more about how close you sit to the display as opposed to the size of it when it comes to 8K. The idea is to fill your field of vision.

Engagement of the various fields of vision (foveal = red, darker beige = parafoveal, lighter beige = more peripheral retina) gives rise to psychophysical reactions that have been termed a sense of immersion or realness first introduced by NHK and now also championed by Samsung, Sony, Sharp, etc.

Visual illustration:

[rachaeldeckard]

Lets remember that 8K was developed by NHK in the early 2000s for broadcasting (which have already begun BTW). That was before most people even had HD and no one had even heard of 4K. They weren't really thinking about film transfers.

They chose the resolution based on research that shows 8K is the point where your eye stops seeing it as a display and starts seeing it as real life.

Its designed to be the "final frontier" resolution for home displays.

[Lee A Stewart]

I see no real need for 8K movies. The more movies look like real life, the more people reject the process.

Where I see 8K being invaluable is for content like sports, nature and reality shows, etc. Here is where you want the images to look as close to real life as you possibly can.

[Blu350z]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

I see no real need for 8K movies. The more movies look like real life, the more people reject the process.

Where I see 8K being invaluable is for content like sports, nature and reality shows, etc. Here is where you want the images to look as close to real life as you possibly can.

I want to see how REAL Th Real Housewives get

[Lee A Stewart]

UHD 8k TV sales healthy but no chance of 8k Blu-ray format

UHD 8k TV sales are outperforming industry predictions, but don’t expect physical media to jump on the bandwagon. That was the message at a joint briefing between Samsung and the 8k Association in London.

Samsung Senior European Strategy Manager Craig Cunningham reported that the premium end of the consumer display market, where products are priced above 2000 euros, remains “very, very stable”, and that the state of the 8k market “is healthier than expected. But then initial expectations for a market are always cautious in the early stages,” he noted.

Samsung released a variety of data about 8k buyers at the event. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the number one reason from all criteria why consumers opted for an 8k display was deemed to be ‘8k picture quality,’ at 77 per cent. Following with 55 per cent was ‘One Connect and Invisible connection cable’, then ‘Upscaling thanks to AI’ (44 per cent), ‘QLED screen technology’ (35 per cent), and ‘Available screen sizes’ (23 per cent).

56 per cent of buyers agreed that AI and 8k picture quality was ‘very important’ and 36 per cent deemed it ‘important’.

While there are indications that 8k content will eventually come to streaming services, Chris Chinnock, executive director of the 8K Association, ruled out 8k content on physical media. “The Blu-ray Disc Association is not looking at 8k,” he told Inside CI. “Discussions could start again, but I see this as a low probability.”

Chinnock confirmed that outside of IMAX, there’s no studio representation in the 8k Association. “That's not surprising. In many ways, studios are almost the last ones to get on board,” he says. “They will want to see everything else in the ecosystem ready, with a certain level of installed base. They're very bottom line oriented.”

http://www.insideci.co.uk/news/uhd-8...ay-format.aspx

[JohnAV]

^ I wouldn’t say there was no chance, it’s just the studios have no justification to pitch content with anything better than 4K because of technology hurtles, economic benefits as well as consumer interest. That not to say that they won’t continue to use the best filming technology/techniques available including 8k cameras.

Totally missing from Samsung’s 8K association propaganda article is the fact that Samsung stopped making BD players because of financial doldrums.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

UHD 8k TV sales healthy but no chance of 8k Blu-ray format





http://www.insideci.co.uk/news/uhd-8...ay-format.aspx

Estimated time of arrival for native 8K optical discs on Blu-ray or another optical format is the year 2026. There is a 10 year cycle for optical discs. 480i DVD came out in 1997, 9 years later standard 1080P Blu-ray launched in 2006 (2010 saw 1080P Blu-ray 3D). Then in 2016 ten years later 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs launched. So a educated guess is if the 10 year pattern holds native 8K optical discs and players should start appearing on the market around the year 2026.

Now if streaming and download becomes much more popular and replaces optical media then a 8K optical disc format will not launch. Consumers would just get high bit rate 8K video with lossless audio using download to hard drive home server methods and streaming over 10GB per second and higher Internet speeds.

[JohnAV]

A good article to see 8k progress

Enthusiasm of 8K - Chris Forrester - IBC365 10/8/19

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

streaming over 10GB per second and higher Internet speeds.

10 Gigabits per second (Gbps) not GB

10 Gbps =1250 MB/s transfer speed

[GasmaskAvenger]

I'm not interested in a 8K video format, to be honest.

I'm done after 4K UHD.

[rachaeldeckard]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

http://www.insideci.co.uk/news/uhd-8...ay-format.aspx

Chinnock confirmed that outside of IMAX, there’s no studio representation in the 8k Association.

Heh. Not surprising since they are literally the only studio that has 8K content.

Originally Posted by JohnAV

10 Gigabits per second (Gbps) not GB

10 Gbps =1250 MB/s transfer speed

10 Gbps?? The article says they expect to get it down to 30Mbps. That's only twice the bitrate that Netflix is using right now.

[Vilya]

If 8K displays provide a benefit that I can readily notice with the content that I already own, or may yet own, then I will have one once I can afford it.

I am always ready and willing to be impressed. If I am, I will dive right in, finances permitting.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by rachaeldeckard

10 Gbps?? The article says they expect to get it down to 30Mbps. That's only twice the bitrate that Netflix is using right now.

Stop skimming comments and pay attention to typos. He posted 10GB in his reply.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If 8K displays provide a benefit that I can readily notice with the content that I already own, or may yet own, then I will have one once I can afford it.

I am always ready and willing to be impressed. If I am, I will dive right in, finances permitting.

To the decrement of first generation buyers it always gets better for the rest of us. But carry on you valiant buyers of Robert’s eye candy wares.

[TheLastSamurai]

Originally Posted by GasmaskAvenger

I'm not interested in a 8K video format, to be honest.

I'm done after 4K UHD.

same

[rachaeldeckard]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Stop skimming comments and pay attention to typos. He posted 10GB in his reply.

That's even higher. If they deliver on their claims then 8K streaming would only need a 50Mbps connection at most.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I didn’t know, as I think I’d prefer to be water boarded than reading any of them. Those in-the-know either attend or follow the reporting on get-togethers like this - https://camerimage.pl/assets/uploads...2019-17.30.pdf

Same here, I also think most disc reviews are clueless nonsense (he says, while having been a disc reviewer for almost 20 years), but if you frequent the threads for any given movie (I mean the royal you, not you you as I know it's not your scene) you'll find people posting those reviews from all over the place which have about as much technical nous as a pudding cup. It's truly depressing but we who live in those threads can't escape them, hence my exasperation.

Originally Posted by JohnAV

^ I wouldn’t say there was no chance, it’s just the studios have no justification to pitch content with anything better than 4K because of technology hurtles, economic benefits as well as consumer interest. That not to say that they won’t continue to use the best filming technology/techniques available including 8k cameras.

Totally missing from Samsung’s 8K association propaganda article is the fact that Samsung stopped making BD players because of financial doldrums.

I don't just think it's about the will to do it (bearing in mind that a key 8K manufacturer stopped making BD players, as you noted), it's also the tech. Yes, the next next next gen codec will be even betterer at compression etc but I just cannae see them fitting 8K onto the current 100GB disc specs with anything like the quality it truly needs. 4K is pushing it as it is. I know you posted that link about the 128GB discs being ratified for 8K recording but that won't make a dent, as taping bit-starved OTA stuff with accordantly shitty audio is a different ball game.

Point being that I think it'll need a new mass-replication optical format with higher capacity to make it happen and I cannot see that occuring in today's streaming dominant climate, no way no how. If they do eventually update the current BD-ROM spec to include 8K on current media then great (though where does that leave the amazing AI upscaling that these sets are built around??) but it's just going to be a nominal thing. In 2026 we'll be lucky to still have 4K discs being releaed at all, never mind 8K ones.

[rachaeldeckard]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't just think it's about the will to do it (bearing in mind that a key 8K manufacturer stopped making BD players, as you noted), it's also the tech. Yes, the next next next gen codec will be even betterer at compression etc but I just cannae see them fitting 8K onto the current 100GB disc specs with anything like the quality it truly needs. 4K is pushing it as it is. I know you posted that link about the 128GB discs being ratified for 8K recording but that won't make a dent, as taping bit-starved OTA stuff with accordantly shitty audio is a different ball game.

Point being that I think it'll need a new mass-replication optical format with higher capacity to make it happen and I cannot see that occuring in today's streaming dominant climate, no way no how. If they do eventually update the current BD-ROM spec to include 8K on current media then great (though where does that leave the amazing AI upscaling that these sets are built around??) but it's just going to be a nominal thing. In 2026 we'll be lucky to still have 4K discs being releaed at all, never mind 8K ones.

Besides the technical issues the more important point is that there is simply no 8K content for them to sell you on a disc. People already complain about 2K upscales on 4K Blu-ray but at least they still get the benefit of HDR and WCG. The 8K format offers no other benefits besides upscaled resolution which the TVs can do themselves.

Like I keep saying 8K is only about new content delivered via broadcasting and streaming.