Lawrence of Arabia 4K UHD (1962)

[rebbirds]

Originally Posted by aladdin123

I'm saying what I'm saying because I looked at the screencaps. The Kaleidescape 4K SDR version has finer grain and detail than the UHD.

What are the specifics of the Kaleidescape version of the movie? I mean it's something like 2160p UHD BluRay Remux HDR HEVC Atmos or else? Split in two parts?

[TbeRw01]

Originally Posted by rebbirds

What are the specifics of the Kaleidescape version of the movie? I mean it's something like 2160p UHD BluRay Remux HDR HEVC Atmos or else? Split in two parts?

KS version is SDR only and 115gb with lossless audio. So a little bit larger than the 97gb UHD-BD.

[rebbirds]

Originally Posted by Robert George

I saw a comment in a post several back about the streaming version, which I have never seen, having some preceived improvements over the UHD, which I have. I was intrigued so did a quick check and was able to "acquire" a full size rip of the Movies Anywhere stream.

Since I have the UHD available on my home server, I downloaded the MA stream to the same making comparison easier. What got my interest was I just watched the UHD a couple of days ago enjoying the improvements of the new OLED panel (83" LG C4). I decided to see what I would see.

For some setup, I will note the MA stream is over 43 GB without foreign dub tracks. Two full size MKVs of the two UHD discs with only English audio is less than 95 GB. Yes, the stream is around half, but for a stream, that's pretty good bit rate.

Looking at the two, I'm going to make some guesses/assumptions about the UHD encode. As good as it is, it does appear there is some visible grain reduction going on. I conclude they rolled off some high frequency information to smooth it out some then threw a shitload of bits at it to preserve as much fine detail as was left.

Then it came to the master for streaming. The knew they would not have the bit rate they had on disc, so we got the master without grain reduction. With half the bit rate, grain structure is more pronounced as is sharpness and fine detail. The textures of the rumpled uniforms, complexions and hair are visibly better in the MA stream. I was more than a little suprised at the differences between these two encodes.

Would the heavier grain been the cause of more complaints if the UHD looked like the stream? Probably, but that file is now my go-to for watching this movie. Even though I just did the nearly 4 hour sit, I'm thinking of a second rewatch is a week.

What are the specifics of the Kaleidescape version of the movie? I mean it's something like 2160p UHD BluRay Remux HDR HEVC Atmos or else? Split in two parts?

[rebbirds]

Originally Posted by TbeRw01

KS version is SDR only and 115gb with lossless audio. So a little bit larger than the 97gb UHD-BD.

Thank you but I don't have access to the site, region problem.

[Wintermute]

So streaming with the Movies Anywhere digital code that came with the discs is visually superior to the discs themselves??

[Robert George]

I was prompted to go poking around Nocturn Ally and stumbled across this...

General
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4
File size : 106 GiB
Duration : 3 h 47 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 66.6 Mb/s
Frame rate : 23.976 FPS
Movie name : Lawrence of Arabia 1962 2160p
Encoded date : 2025-07-07 16:36:44 UTC
Writing application : mkvmerge v91.0 ('Signs') 64-bit
Writing library : libebml v1.4.5 + libmatroska v1.7.1

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 5 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 3 h 47 min
Bit rate : 64.4 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.324
Stream size : 103 GiB (97%)
Writing library : x264 core 146 r2538 121396c
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-2:-2 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.15:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=48 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=0 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=8 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.70 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=300000 / vbv_bufsize=300000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:0.70
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS XLL
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 3 h 47 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 153 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Stream size : 3.41 GiB (3%)
Title : DTS-HD MA 5.1 - Blu-ray
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : Yes

Text #1
ID : 3
Format : UTF-8
Codec ID : S_TEXT/UTF8
Codec ID/Info : UTF-8 Plain Text
Duration : 3 h 35 min
Bit rate : 36 b/s
Frame rate : 0.142 FPS
Count of elements : 1838
Stream size : 57.6 KiB (0%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No

Text #2
ID : 4
Format : UTF-8
Codec ID : S_TEXT/UTF8
Codec ID/Info : UTF-8 Plain Text
Duration : 3 h 43 min
Bit rate : 37 b/s
Frame rate : 0.156 FPS
Count of elements : 2085
Stream size : 62.1 KiB (0%)
Title : SDH
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No

This was said to be the file Sony streamed to their 4K download service (Bravia Core I think). Based on posted specs above, I suspect this is the basis of the Kaleidescape file. Whatever it is, it looks spectacular. My new favorite version of one of my "desert Island" movies.

[cochon]

Originally Posted by TbeRw01

KS version is SDR only and 115gb with lossless audio. So a little bit larger than the 97gb UHD-BD.

I am sorry, I don't get this comparison. The movie is split in two discs in all the versions that were released, or isn't it?

[aladdin123]

Originally Posted by cochon

I am sorry, I don't get this comparison. The movie is split in two discs in all the versions that were released, or isn't it?

The size of the UHD's video encode (no audio tracks counted) when you put both discs together is 97 gigabytes.

[cochon]

Originally Posted by aladdin123

The size of the UHD's video encode (no audio tracks counted) when you put both discs together is 97 gigabytes.

OK but isn't the 115 figure from Kaleidoscope inclusive of everything too, I don't see a breakdown of the different components?

[TbeRw01]

Originally Posted by cochon

OK but isn't the 115 figure from Kaleidoscope inclusive of everything too, I don't see a breakdown of the different components?

97gb is with the TrueHD Atmos track + ac3 core included, the video only is 92gb when the discs are ripped and combined. On KS the filesize is 115gb and this includes the same TrueHD + core tracks and a DTS-HD stereo track.

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format                               : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, BL+EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                                 : 3 h 47 min
Bit rate                                 : 57.8 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.290
Stream size                              : 91.6 GiB (94%)
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0001 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 1289 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 364 cd/m2

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info                              : Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name                          : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID                                 : A_TRUEHD
Duration                                 : 3 h 47 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 2 719 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 4 176 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Stream size                              : 4.31 GiB (4%)
Title                                    : TrueHD Atmos 7.1
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Number of dynamic objects                : 11
Bed channel count                        : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration                : LFE

[rebbirds]

Originally Posted by Robert George

I was prompted to go poking around Nocturn Ally and stumbled across this...

General
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4
File size : 106 GiB
Duration : 3 h 47 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 66.6 Mb/s
Frame rate : 23.976 FPS
Movie name : Lawrence of Arabia 1962 2160p
Encoded date : 2025-07-07 16:36:44 UTC
Writing application : mkvmerge v91.0 ('Signs') 64-bit
Writing library : libebml v1.4.5 + libmatroska v1.7.1

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 5 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 3 h 47 min
Bit rate : 64.4 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.324
Stream size : 103 GiB (97%)
Writing library : x264 core 146 r2538 121396c
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-2:-2 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.15:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=48 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=0 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=8 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.70 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=300000 / vbv_bufsize=300000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:0.70
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Audio
ID : 2
Format : DTS XLL
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name : DTS-HD Master Audio
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 3 h 47 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 153 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Stream size : 3.41 GiB (3%)
Title : DTS-HD MA 5.1 - Blu-ray
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : Yes

Text #1
ID : 3
Format : UTF-8
Codec ID : S_TEXT/UTF8
Codec ID/Info : UTF-8 Plain Text
Duration : 3 h 35 min
Bit rate : 36 b/s
Frame rate : 0.142 FPS
Count of elements : 1838
Stream size : 57.6 KiB (0%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No

Text #2
ID : 4
Format : UTF-8
Codec ID : S_TEXT/UTF8
Codec ID/Info : UTF-8 Plain Text
Duration : 3 h 43 min
Bit rate : 37 b/s
Frame rate : 0.156 FPS
Count of elements : 2085
Stream size : 62.1 KiB (0%)
Title : SDH
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No

This was said to be the file Sony streamed to their 4K download service (Bravia Core I think). Based on posted specs above, I suspect this is the basis of the Kaleidescape file. Whatever it is, it looks spectacular. My new favorite version of one of my "desert Island" movies.

Um, pardon me but I don't know Nocturn Ally...a torrent site?

[apricissimus]

I prefer the good ol' eyeball test.

[dublinbluray108]

When you look at the video details of Lawrence of Arabia 4K between the Sony Bravia Core serivce from Robert George's post with details derived from the Nocturn Alley website & the Kaleidescape website; they provide different video codecs for each file of the movie.

Sony Bravia Core has Lawrence of Arabia at 106 GB using an Advanced Video Codec (AVC).

Kaleidescape has Lawrence of Arabia at 115 GB using High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC).

That's a difference of 9 GB between the two files.

[Robert George]

Originally Posted by rebbirds

Um, pardon me but I don't know Nocturn Ally...a torrent site?

Not a Harry Potter fan, huh?

[Robert George]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

When you look at the video details of Lawrence of Arabia 4K between the Sony Bravia Core serivce from Robert George's post with details derived from the Nocturn Alley website & the Kaleidescape website; they provide different video codecs for each file of the movie.

Sony Bravia Core has Lawrence of Arabia at 106 GB using an Advanced Video Codec (AVC).

Kaleidescape has Lawrence of Arabia at 115 GB using High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC).

That's a difference of 9 GB between the two files.

Those file sizes include audio, which is different between the two. Audio in the KS stream use more data. Actual file size of just the video streams are 103 GB for the WEB-DL (Sony?) and 91.6 GB for Kaleidescape. Bit rate is also higher on the Sony rip.

Also, "Nocturn Ally" is not a web site. It's a place where sketchy witches hang out.

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

When you look at the video details of Lawrence of Arabia 4K between the Sony Bravia Core serivce from Robert George's post with details derived from the Nocturn Alley website & the Kaleidescape website; they provide different video codecs for each file of the movie.

Sony Bravia Core has Lawrence of Arabia at 106 GB using an Advanced Video Codec (AVC).

Kaleidescape has Lawrence of Arabia at 115 GB using High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC).

That's a difference of 9 GB between the two files.

Are you sure it's AVC on the Bravia Core service? Seems incredibly inefficient to waste 106gb on a x264 encoded 4K file.

[dublinbluray108]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

Are you sure it's AVC on the Bravia Core service? Seems incredibly inefficient to waste 106gb on a x264 encoded 4K file.

Well. The post from Robert George said it was from Sony's 4K download service which I think is Bravia Core as well. That service is only on certain Sony 4K TV's of a particular size. Although I can't remember which size TV will allow you to access the service.

[Robert George]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

Are you sure it's AVC on the Bravia Core service? Seems incredibly inefficient to waste 106gb on a x264 encoded 4K file.

The Lawrence file is AVC, but it is actually several years old. Several several. I have a few other Bravia Core files, Spider-Man Far From Home and No Way Home off the top of my head. Both are HEVC, and also very large files, 72.1 GB and 86.1 GB respectively. And before anyone asks, these are both IMAX transfers and look spectacular, but that's a topic for another day.

The Lawrence transfer looks as much like film as I think a video transfer can. Perfectly clean lines, no DNR, very fine grain (65mm don't forget), perfect color density. Easily calls for a rewatch.

[rebbirds]

Originally Posted by Robert George

Not a Harry Potter fan, huh?

No

[rebbirds]

So, Robert George, I assume it's not possible for other people to download this file you're talking about.