4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

I assume you mean star wars 4-6, since the prequels were shot in 1080p.

Clearly he was just listing movies he likes rather than ones with workable 4k masters

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

These lists are all well and good guys, but you know that most of the modern movies you're quoting were finished at 2K, right? Heck, I'll bet cash money that avengers 2 will get a 2K finish also.

Geoff’s right, unfortunately. We might see some newer titles like Fury and Captain Phillips, as they had 4K DCPs. I’d expect to see Sony release a ton of their new 4K scanned material, like Ghostbusters, MIB, Glory, Taxi Driver, etc. Warner has some new scans like The Fugitive, Wizard of Oz, etc. Maybe they will get their act together and give us some new Nolan Batman transfers, as they were all finished photo chemically and would yield a great image from a fresh 4K scan of the OCN, or at least the IP if Nolan insists.

Many of Criterion’s releases came from 4K scans (Thief, etc) and I believe the Studio Ghibli releases like Mononoke were also fresh 4K scans so Disney might release these.

As for Universal? I’m not holding my breath. They can’t even get good scans for 1080p BD, let alone 4K. If a new movie with a 4K DCP comes out from them, sure. Catalog stuff? No way.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

These lists are all well and good guys, but you know that most of the modern movies you're quoting were finished at 2K, right? Heck, I'll bet cash money that avengers 2 will get a 2K finish also.

Keep in mind, the next gen Blu-ray format coming out is, as the formal name says…. Ultra HD Blu-ray™. Ergo, don’t be surprised if/when (depending on accessibility of files upstream from the DCP, for the mastering technologists to get their hands on) that content providers offer consumers 2K HDR graded Blu-rays….which wouldn’t be a bad thing, if there is a noticeable visual improvement over the standard dynamic range 8bit HD Blu-ray discs, which are the current gold standard for consumer home media.

Of course, several variables ultimately will play into the outcome of that visual improvement -
1. The dynamic range of the original content
2. The HDR solution employed to grade, master and deliver
3. The quality of the HDR display.

Plus, if really desired, if one is going to go back to the original files anyway in order to regrade in HDR, one could uprez those to 4K, like is done with the vfx for 4K motion pictures, although, for an entire motion picture your mileage may vary (quality-wise), depending on the content. Anyone here that has the capability can test the result of doing such an uprez for themselves in Nuke using a Lanczos algorithm in a scaling node.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Geoff’s right, unfortunately....

Sing, HDR value-added, may change the strict definition of ‘UHD’ (in terms of pixel requirement) as we’ve previously known it, as far as some studios and content providers are concerned.

Not a bad thing....if it brings us better looking movies.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Keep in mind, the next gen Blu-ray format coming out is, as the formal name says…. Ultra HD Blu-ray™. Ergo, don’t be surprised if/when (depending on accessibility of files upstream from the DCP, for the mastering technologists to get their hands on) that content providers offer consumers 2K HDR graded Blu-rays….which wouldn’t be a bad thing, if there is a noticeable visual improvement over the standard dynamic range 8bit HD Blu-ray discs, which are the current gold standard for consumer home media.

Of course, several variables ultimately will play into the outcome of that visual improvement -
1. The dynamic range of the original content
2. The HDR solution employed to grade, master and deliver
3. The quality of the HDR display.

Plus, if really desired, if one is going to go back to the original files anyway in order to regrade in HDR, one could uprez those to 4K, like is done with the vfx for 4K motion pictures, although, for an entire motion picture your mileage may vary (quality-wise), depending on the content. Anyone here that has the capability can test the result of doing such an uprez for themselves in Nuke using a Lanczos algorithm in a scaling node.

Absolutely Mr P, I've already said as much about UHD BD being used as a delivery method for higher quality HD material. But so many people think so many movies will be released specifically in in 4K res, when the reality is that the overwhelming majority of movies made in the last 10 years or so were finished at 2K and people really need to start getting their heads around that fact.

[Mihadis]

2K is still higher res than 1080p

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Sing, HDR value-added, may change the strict definition of ‘UHD’ (in terms of pixel requirement) as we’ve previously known it, as far as some studios and content providers are concerned.

Not a bad thing....if it brings us better looking movies.

That's true. 2K HDR and increased color space makes a good movie even better.

One question: you mentioned earlier that a colorist has to be on hand to adjust the color timing from what's on the DI (can't remember what that is: REC 2020?) to a DCP (DCI P3) and a BD (REC 709). So, does that not mean that in order to get an "enhanced 2K UHD BD disc" (whatever we will call it) the DI will have to be re-graded to take advantage of HDR and an increased color space over 709/P3? I assume the amount of time and energy is minimal as opposed to going with a full blown 4K scan of an OCN, for example.

[jono3000]

Originally Posted by Mihadis

2K is still higher res than 1080p

2K DCI is 2048x1080, 1080p Blu-rays are 1920x1080...2K generically refers to the horizontal resolution being around 2000 pixels.

The same confusion exists with 4K/Ultra HD. (4K - 4096x2160, UHD 3840x2160)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Mihadis

2K is still higher res than 1080p

True, but we won't get full 2K horizontal resolution on UHD BD (because of the mandatory 16:9 frame size) so it's a moot point.

Singh: movies are graded in DCI P3 which is turned into 12-bit XYZ for the DCP. That's why even though .2020 is being listed as the colour space for UHD BD it's more of a container at this point, and the smart money is going on a straight migration of the P3 grading. HDR will have to be specifically regraded in any case.

[4K fanatic]

Pulp Fiction 4k scan!!! The English Patient 4k!!

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Geoff’s right, unfortunately. We might see some newer titles like Fury and Captain Phillips, as they had 4K DCPs. I’d expect to see Sony release a ton of their new 4K scanned material, like Ghostbusters, MIB, Glory, Taxi Driver, etc. Warner has some new scans like The Fugitive, Wizard of Oz, etc. Maybe they will get their act together and give us some new Nolan Batman transfers, as they were all finished photo chemically and would yield a great image from a fresh 4K scan of the OCN, or at least the IP if Nolan insists.

Many of Criterion’s releases came from 4K scans (Thief, etc) and I believe the Studio Ghibli releases like Mononoke were also fresh 4K scans so Disney might release these.

As for Universal? I’m not holding my breath. They can’t even get good scans for 1080p BD, let alone 4K. If a new movie with a 4K DCP comes out from them, sure. Catalog stuff? No way.

I don't expect Criterion will jump early into the Ultra HD Blu-ray pool. They're always months or years behind everyone else. Not many of the titles they have acquired licenses for were from 4k scans anyway.

Universal catalog titles that aren't directly supervised by Spielberg (as only Jaws, E.T., and a few others had little to no issues) should be highly suspect until proven otherwise, so I agree with that for sure.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

...I assume the amount of time and energy is minimal as opposed to going with a full blown 4K scan of an OCN, for example.

Once a routine is established, producing an HDR version should end up being quicker and cheaper than what content creators have experienced in the past with restoration/remastering projects (new scan, dirt and scratch removal, etc. color correction) which have lead to ‘newly restored’ or ‘newly remastered’ traditional (standard dynamic range) Blu-rays, given this caveat, see 2nd half of post….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post10290485

Exciting times ahead.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Once a routine is established, producing an HDR version should end up being quicker and cheaper than what content creators have experienced in the past with restoration/remastering projects (new scan, dirt and scratch removal, etc. color correction) which have lead to ‘newly restored’ or ‘newly remastered’ traditional (standard dynamic range) Blu-rays, given this caveat….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post10290485

Exciting times ahead.

Only if they use HDR technology to recreate the original look of a movie on a consumer level and not try to pump the brightness knob to 11 for "vididiots" who think that is the only thing that makes for a quality image.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Absolutely Mr P, I've already said as much about UHD BD being used as a delivery method for higher quality HD material. But so many people think so many movies will be released specifically in in 4K res, when the reality is that the overwhelming majority of movies made in the last 10 years or so were finished at 2K and people really need to start getting their heads around that fact.

For some of the bigger movies though, why wouldn't they go back and do it in 4K? Let's take the Avengers for example. Couldn't they theoretically go back to the original film elements, re-transfer, and use some upscaled effects?

I know lots of films were finished in 2K, but I refuse to believe that the economics aren't there for some of the bigger blockbuster films over the last decade or so. Now, maybe the 4K ecosystem needs to catch up to where it's "standard" in most people's homes. That I could see taking years, and could possibly push out some of the blockbusters from the last decade.

But what do I know. I don't work in the film industry and am more likely to be on the financing and economic side of it in my field.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Esox50

For some of the bigger movies though, why wouldn't they go back and do it in 4K? Let's take the Avengers for example. Couldn't they theoretically go back to the original film elements, re-transfer, and use some upscaled effects?

I know lots of films were finished in 2K, but I refuse to believe that the economics aren't there for some of the bigger blockbuster films over the last decade or so. Now, maybe the 4K ecosystem needs to catch up to where it's "standard" in most people's homes. That I could see taking years, and could possibly push out some of the blockbusters from the last decade.

But what do I know. I don't work in the film industry and am more likely to be on the financing and economic side of it in my field.

Hollywood will not spend the extra money to go back and refinish a film or digital film in 4k, especially if it has extensive CGI effects. It costs far too much and is not in their cost vs. benefits analysis.

Even many PIXAR and Disney Animated digital films are only rendered out at 2k and they would have to spend big bucks on the infrastructure to start rendering and storing in cinema 4k.

It may be that a majority of films or documentaries that didn't have full 4k workflows to begin with will be released on Ultra HD Blu-ray at only 1080p (2k-lite) with 10 bit, 4:2:0, DCI-P3 color, and potential HDR remastering. That is in the included disc specs. Saves them from having to upconvert their 2k DI's to faux 4k-lite.

Films from 35mm, 65mm, and 70mm original stock that were newly scanned and archived at 4k, or stuff shot and mastered at true 4k will benefit the most from these new discs.

[reanimator]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

I don't expect Criterion will jump early into the Ultra HD Blu-ray pool. They're always months or years behind everyone else.

Criterion made a name for themselves by being one of the strongest backers of Laserdisc as a niche format when the studios were slow to support it. And many Criterion BDs already have 4K masters ready to go. I'd expect them to be releasing titles sooner rather than later -- and certainly not "years behind everyone else."

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by reanimator

Criterion made a name for themselves by being one of the strongest backers of Laserdisc as a niche format when the studios were slow to support it. And many Criterion BDs already have 4K masters ready to go. I'd expect them to be releasing titles sooner rather than later -- and certainly not "years behind everyone else."

I think much depends on what kind of licensing agreements they have with the films' rights owners. They're just a distributor for many of the titles they release.

Criterion was not quick to jump into the Blu-ray fray and with UHD Blu-ray starting out as a niche within a niche, they may cautiously feel the temperature of the water before jumping into the pool. It may also cost a bit more to stamp 66 GB and 100 GB discs, at least for a while.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Esox50

For some of the bigger movies though, why wouldn't they go back and do it in 4K? Let's take the Avengers for example. Couldn't they theoretically go back to the original film elements, re-transfer, and use some upscaled effects?

I know lots of films were finished in 2K, but I refuse to believe that the economics aren't there for some of the bigger blockbuster films over the last decade or so. Now, maybe the 4K ecosystem needs to catch up to where it's "standard" in most people's homes. That I could see taking years, and could possibly push out some of the blockbusters from the last decade.

But what do I know. I don't work in the film industry and am more likely to be on the financing and economic side of it in my field.

Yeah, like Freak said, doing so would cost the studio's millions of dollars and destroy their margin.

Specifically, though, The Avenger's was photography digitally using the Arri Alexa, a 2.8K camera.

[JohnCrooks]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

I watched one film with HFR - The Desolation Of Smaug - and I never want to watch another. It was awful. Unnatural. Off putting. Take it away!

Are you posting this for any other reason than to incite annoyance? This thread has nothing to do with this topic, let alone your opinions on it.

[JohnCrooks]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

True, but we won't get full 2K horizontal resolution on UHD BD (because of the mandatory 16:9 frame size) so it's a moot point.

Singh: movies are graded in DCI P3 which is turned into 12-bit XYZ for the DCP. That's why even though .2020 is being listed as the colour space for UHD BD it's more of a container at this point, and the smart money is going on a straight migration of the P3 grading. HDR will have to be specifically regraded in any case.

Why can't it simply be letterboxed?