4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Derb]

Just read jeff's posts & you'll come to the conclusion 4K was started on consoles but rushed them out before any chance of a finalization to be relevent.

Id rather have a standalone player anyway. 2 years after they are first released because history never lies & these launch units will bomb.

[raygendreau]

There was a time when I thought my first UHD disk player would be some version of a Playstation console, just as my first BD disk player was a Playstation 3 in 2006. I gave up on this idea.

My doubts began with this:

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/1/567...irment-charges

This didn’t help: http://www.techradar.com/us/news/tel...ox-one-1219888

It is probable that a future iteration of Playstation 4 will support UHD streaming and possibly downloading; but the PS 5, which may be introduced (2017-2019 from what I have read) is likely to be a cloud based rather than a hardware model.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/...-4k-this-fall/

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/...d-ps4-blu-ray/

http://www.ps5playstation5.com/specs

http://www.crossmap.com/news/playsta...n-the-up-22120

With Sony’s current mindset set on digital UHD distribution, I will be surprised if they even show a prototype of a UHD BR player at CES 2016. They are more likely to wait for Samsung and Panasonic to lead the way with production stand alone UHD players. Sony won’t be tooling up until a viable market develops.

All Ito did was answer a hypothetical with a conditional and told you why Sony would not consider moving forward until two important questions were answered: “How many units of this enhanced PS4 will we be able to sell?” and “how much will we sell them for?”

[dvdmike]

There will not be a ps5 in 2017

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

With Sony’s current mindset set on digital UHD distribution, I will be surprised if they even show a prototype of a UHD BR player at CES 2016....

But, ‘there is hope for the disc’ according to longtime industry analysts (who get paid for their predictions and insight)….http://www.homemediamagazine.com/res...treaming-36998

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

There will not be a ps5 in 2017

Well, mike, I can say that there certainly will not be one for you unless you learn to make your rack (that’s Navy talk for bed…at least on Coronado San Diego) better than this …

The Home Video Update Why do you consider me your enemy? - YouTube

[hajiketobu]

OMG - I just revisited the forum after a longer hiatus and was totally shocked to see all the threads gone under Blu-Ray Tech. Thankfully I found this place. I'm glad to see that we have found a new place for UHD discussions.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I don't know, I don't care!!

I strongly suspect reading data from a data disc is not the same as reading data at > 100Mbps from a UHD BD ROM.

Reading data from a recordable BDXL has more issues than from a commercial ROM 3 layer disk. A Data disk has to be more reliable than a media disk.

Originally Posted by Derb

Just read jeff's posts & you'll come to the conclusion 4K was started on consoles but rushed them out before any chance of a finalization to be relevent.

Id rather have a standalone player anyway. 2 years after they are first released because history never lies & these launch units will bomb.

I've cited Sony saying the "PS4 is Future Proofed" which means the hardware was designed to support features they will release in the future with firmware updates. Most of the hardware features used for games can also be used for media and vice versa.

I've show the Motion picture industry requires the HDCP encryption occur in the same TEE as the player/codecs/keys/DRM (PS4 southbridge) and the HDMI port was custom designed to support VR which required 60/90/120HZ frame rate which can be used with UHD Blu-ray HFR. HDMI 2.0a HDR just requires a custom programmable (faster) HDMI chip and again a firmware updatable SoC like the PS4 Southbridge.

The PS4, XB1 and PC (look at the Windows 10 OEM requirements which both the PS4 and XB1 support from Trusted boot to TEE) are the only platforms currently out that can support a UHD Blu-ray "Digital Bridge". The same Hard disk and blu-ray drive that is now used to support games can be used to support UHD Blu-ray. It goes beyond that; they were designed to be the Media Hubs and more...... Windows 10 supports ripping Music CDs to Lossless FLAC and again this can be streamed throughout the home to every platform. Why do you think there has been such an effort for PC hardware to have a low power IPTV mode which can also be used with Blu-ray...the same hardware used by AMD to do this is in the PS4 and XB1.

The XB1 has 10 bit HEVC support, as mentioned in the last page a BDXL third layer can be read on a PS4 drive which is a modern STANDARD blu-ray drive which the XB1 likely has. Don't you guys get it, it's by design not accident that Standard drives can read UHD disks. Every Windows 10 OEM PC can be a UHD player with digital bridge and Microsoft is releasing Playready ND to stream UHD media in the home. Playready Whitepapers mention Game Consoles using Playready ND streaming from a Game Console DVR (Live stream included) to other platforms in the home and starting 2016 Cable cards are no longer required with Downloadable security.

Second Sony Passage Paper to the FCC DSTAC is about using clear QAM tuners (USB, PC Card and Network tuners) with PCs, PS4, Phones and Tablets as the client using the DSS (Downloadable Security Scheme) (page 10 and 11). A picture of the PS3 labeled PS4 on page 11 is using a Hauppauge USB Tuner. Also on that page is a HD Homerun network tuner feeding a home WiFi router to portables.

From Microsoft's Playready 3 site: Supporting In-Home Content Distribution with PlayReady for Network Devices page 14

"The game console, acting as a PlayReady ND transmitter, has obtained a license from the service and it sends media files to valid PlayReady ND receivers that are part of the same in-home network. It also uses PlayReady technologies to build and issue local licenses to authorized receiving devices. Note that this model can also be applied to both live streams, video-on-demand and DVR content."

This outlines a model similar to Vidipath except using Playready ND instead of WMDRM10 and helps confirm the XB1 and PS4 will be streaming 4K media in the home (from Cable TV and OTT) and supports both as 4K blu-ray players with digital bridge.

Originally Posted by http://www.cepro.com/article/fox_home_entertainment_proposes_blu-ray_movie_servers_as_uhd_digital_bridge/

By Julie Jacobson, October 21, 2013
Mike Dunn, president of 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, thinks we need an easier way to manage high-def content. He is calling on Hollywood and consumer electronics manufacturers to work together to create a Blu-ray player with terabytes of space for storing and managing content, including 4K Ultra HD.

During his keynote presentation at the CEA Industry Forum in Los Angeles this week, Dunn spoke of an “entertainment hub” that ushers consumers into the digital world. It would store and make TV shows and movies available to any device.

“Consumers would have the ability to copy their physical discs and store and manage their entire digital library in one centralized location—managed in the living room,” he says, “where most content is viewed on the big screen.”

To that end, he says, 20th Century Fox recently is launching an “Innovation Lab” to foster “relationships with CE and tech companies to start early in the innovation cycle.”

Anyway, he says this “Digital Bridge is really the platform for the future” and that “we must build it together.”

And then, he adds, “Everyone can innovate around that for the next 10 years.”

To my mind this is a CE Industry plan. PDFs from Panasonic and Sony on the Digital bridge mention Playready ND and in home streaming.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Reading data from a recordable BDXL has more issues than from a commercial ROM 3 layer disk. A Data disk has to be more reliable than a media disk.

Does not matter, if the PS4 has a BD drive that is limited to 1.5X speed then the data rate will be limited to 54 Mbps and therefore will not read a UHD BD. It would need a 4X speed (144 Mbps) in order to read a UHD BD.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by hajiketobu

OMG - I just revisited the forum after a longer hiatus and was totally shocked to see all the threads gone under Blu-Ray Tech. Thankfully I found this place. I'm glad to see that we have found a new place for UHD discussions.

Same here, if there was an announcement about a new section, I missed it!!

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I don't know, I don't care!!

then why bring up the subject?

I strongly suspect reading data from a data disc is not the same as reading data at > 100Mbps from a UHD BD ROM.

seriously? the 100Mb for UHD BD movies is not based on read/write speeds of disks/drives but on two simple facts

1) @100GB , 100Mbps gives us roughly 2h going much higher then that is useless because disk capacity is limiting (i.e. most people would not want to get up and change disks every 15 minutes - top speed of a BD drive for a 50GB disk) or even 30 (top speed for a 100GB disk) minutes or even 1h). Hell there were a few people on here that would have preferred that for a 4h film like the EE of LOTR they compromised and fit it all on one disk.

2) the higher the bit rate the more stronger the device needs to be in order to decode the A/V and so why build a spec for the exceptions when it will drive up the cost of players. (i.e.

the simple reality is 100Mbps is roughly 3x and you can't even find a drive that is anywhere near that slow any more (i.e. 6x is about as slow as you can get and they have been on the shelves for a long time)

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Does not matter, if the PS4 has a BD drive that is limited to 1.5X speed then the data rate will be limited to 54 Mbps and therefore will not read a UHD BD. It would need a 4X speed (144 Mbps) in order to read a UHD BD.

the PS3 in 2006 when it launched had a 2x drive. The PS 4 does not have a 1.5x drive no matter how much you want to believe it.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

the PS3 in 2006 when it launched had a 2x drive. The PS 4 does not have a 1.5x drive no matter how much you want to believe it.

Yeah, the PS4 has a 6X drive and with the Panasonic tweak from 25GB/layer to 33GB/layer the 66 GB and 3 layer 100GB disks have a data rate that is higher due to that Panasonic tweak. This is not needed now but might be needed in the future with a 3D mode OR multi-view VR that takes more space and needs a higher data rate. HFR to 120 HZ for VR multi-view plus 180+ degree views made up of two to three streams might be a data hog.

[Derb]

It's an x6 write, not read.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Of course, you also have to have a laser pickup that is designed to read UHD Blu-ray discs...

There is that... um...

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Of course, you also have to have a laser pickup that is designed to read UHD Blu-ray discs...

There is that... um...

I can't tell if you are serious or joking?

The following were from 2013.

Originally Posted by http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1490218-blu-ray-4k-uhd-coming-2015-a.html#post23725109

The physical format is probably the same as already defined for BD-XL, which has been in place for a couple of years now for data discs. Most of the modern BD burners and BD Rom drives for PCs, including those from LG, already can support the BD-XL structure with 33 GB per layer and up to 4 layers.

Originally Posted by http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1490218-blu-ray-4k-uhd-coming-2015-a-2.html#post23725730

AVS forum member Kraine was reporting last week from IFA in Berlin. I requested that he question Sony about the HDMI on the PS4 and he reported they said it was using HDMI 2.0. His post is HERE.

the new PS4 released in November of the same year will also be equipped with HDMI 2.0 jacks.

Since HDCP is separate from the HDMI port, HDMI 2.0 is only needed for UHD Blu-ray's 4K @ 60Hz.

It's interesting to note that after 2013 I can't find anything till June 2015 with the XB1 10 bit HEVC support announcement for UHD support for either console. This lends support that Ito's comments were NDA and it's still in effect for UHD Blu-ray.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

There was a time when I thought my first UHD disk player would be some version of a Playstation console, just as my first BD disk player was a Playstation 3 in 2006. I gave up on this idea.

My doubts began with this:

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/1/567...irment-charges

This is true and the digital bridge Idea was proposed in I think 2008-2010 for 1080P blu-ray to increase sales but the ecosystem (Common DRM scheme) didn't develop. There is now the Playready ecosystem and Vidipath for UHD Blu-ray and possibly our HD (1080P) disks.

This didn’t help: http://www.techradar.com/us/news/tel...ox-one-1219888

It is probable that a future iteration of Playstation 4 will support UHD streaming and possibly downloading;

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/...-4k-this-fall/

This is just plain wrong. All versions of the PS4 and XB1 can support UHD Blu-ray.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/...d-ps4-blu-ray/

This has also been shown to be suspect

http://www.ps5playstation5.com/specsbut the PS 5, which may be introduced (2017-2019 from what I have read) is likely to be a cloud based rather than a hardware model.

http://www.crossmap.com/news/playsta...n-the-up-22120

This is likely to be Zen in a APU with 3D HBM memory on Interposer. It may not have a hard disk but it will have a solid state module that acts as storage. Memristor memory or something like it should be commercially viable by 2018-2019. Instant on with extremely low standby power requires it. 2020 is the next major inflection point for the CE industry.

The Nintendo NX is supposed to have a Flash disk cartridge like distribution for games with master consoles in stores where you take your Terabyte cartridge to be loaded with multiple games and each as needed is DRM enabled on-line or in store. No Blu-ray drive and the same cartridge can work with handhelds and console. One of the UHD Blu-ray digital bridge distribution schemes is by memory stick. It's also assumed that there will be a home network with storage available to every device on the home network and media sharing by streaming from a central media Hub (PS, XB1, PS4 or UHD Blu-ray with digital bridge).

With Sony’s current mindset set on digital UHD distribution, I will be surprised if they even show a prototype of a UHD BR player at CES 2016. They are more likely to wait for Samsung and Panasonic to lead the way with production stand alone UHD players. Sony won’t be tooling up until a viable market develops.

I don't know but your assumption is based on needing a new PS4.5 to support UHD media; that is wrong. Likely Sony will firmware update to support UHD blu-ray when Microsoft does. The digital bridge features may come later or it may be part of an industry wide ecosystem that every one announces support for. First though comes Vidipath, ooVoo, Miracast, DLNA 3.0, HTML5 <video> MSE EME, UHD IPTV, WebGL and a ton of forward facing consumer features.

All Ito did was answer a hypothetical with a conditional and told you why Sony would not consider moving forward until two important questions were answered: “How many units of this enhanced PS4 will we be able to sell?” and “how much will we sell them for?”

But he tied that to UHD blu-ray support on the current versions of the PS4 and that is a lie or every other quote from multiple people in 2013 are wrong and the XB1 will support UHD IPTV and Blu-ray and the PS4 won't.

Towards a more powerful PS4? Shuhei Yoshida answers us

This is not speculation. It was an interview conducted by Nishikawa-san, a very famous journalist Japanese high-tech. He interviewed Masayasu Ito who is responsible for developing the hardware at SCEI. Nishikawa-san asked if, because of the architectural choices we made ​​on the PS4 (an architecture based on the PC) it would be simpler theory, if we decide to do, improve technology PS4 heart of the order for example to be compatible with new media or something like that. Ito, as a technician said yes, that would be hypothetically possible. They did not speak of our business plan. It was more a question of technical possibilities.

Correcting the Ito impression. He was not talking about the business plan or PS4 features.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Can the PS4 and/or XBox One stream/download 4K/UHD content from: Netflix? UltraFlix? YouTube? Amazon? SEN? MP4 files via a DLNA server?

[Pieter V]

My take on the current 2K DI finishes and UHD future releases:

The problem is we don't know how the movie was further stored in the archives. From 'Texas Chainsaw 3D' I know there is also a 4K version stored.

But for theaters and on Blu-ray it was 2K.

But here we have the problem: 3D.

3D requires double the data to storage a movie. Plus 4K VFX would require a lot more and costs more. 3D and 4K DI's do not go hand in hand.

I surely hope the studios kept UHD in their minds. One because all the major studios are in the UHD Alliance. Secondly what's the point of shooting a movie in 6K, if you only plan a 2K release. Greater source materials must have a purpose.

No there must be something more.

The Martian, Everest, Avengers (2012), Edge of Tomorrow, Mad Max: Fury Road and more did get 4K DCP as well.

Most of those movies can be found on streaming services as well.

[Geoff D]

We know about Le Martian but what's your source for the others getting actual 4K finishes? Remember, a >2K post pipeline or >2K scanning/acquisition isn't a guarantee of anything, and some upscale on a streaming service is no guarantee either.

[Pieter V]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

We know about Le Martian but what's your source for the others getting actual 4K finishes? Remember, a >2K post pipeline or >2K scanning/acquisition isn't a guarantee of anything, and some upscale on a streaming service is no guarantee either.

Texas Chainsaw 2013:

http://cinelicious.tv/feature-film

Everest:

http://av-insider.de/martian-everest-edr

For the others: If you Google on the film title + 4K DCP results pop up.

I am just assuming here and I read magazines too,

Parkcircus has a lot 4K DCP's in their collection. One of them is 'Forrest Gump'. Which was one of the title on Samsung's UHD package, when you bought a UHD TV, couple of years ago.