List of UHDs that utilize 4K or Higher Masters

[Vashetti]

Originally Posted by ray0414

I can check, but im at work and mobile so it may take a bit to search.

I'll have a browse on the forum, but would be cool if you found it

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Vashetti

Do you happen to have a link or can you give me directions where to look?

Sorry I was mistaken, it was not a public post but rather a personal message via private convo I had.

The exact wording was:

"Disney refuses to upconverts their movies to 4k. Their vice president of post production said that in a session at HPA this week. The crowd cheered."

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Last I checked the UHD Blu-ray spec doesn't specifically require 4K, so there is no reason that Disney couldn't continue with their stance of no upscaled 2K and deliver the other benefits to UHD Blu-ray with 1080p (10 bit, WCG, HDR). I'd be MORE than happy for them to deliver their titles this way and frankly would prefer the other studios followed suit with their 2K masters as well.

I have absolutely no problem with this whatsoever.

In fact, this sounds awesome.

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Can open, worms, everywhere

[Vashetti]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Sorry I was mistaken, it was not a public post but rather a personal message via private convo I had.

The exact wording was:

"Disney refuses to upconverts their movies to 4k. Their vice president of post production said that in a session at HPA this week. The crowd cheered."

Ah, thanks for letting me know

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Last I checked the UHD Blu-ray spec doesn't specifically require 4K, so there is no reason that Disney couldn't continue with their stance of no upscaled 2K and deliver the other benefits to UHD Blu-ray with 1080p (10 bit, WCG, HDR). I'd be MORE than happy for them to deliver their titles this way and frankly would prefer the other studios followed suit with their 2K masters as well.

Excellent point. 1080p with 10-bit 2020 HDR is right there in the spec, so Disney could still jump in if they so wished.

BUT I think they're getting colder and colder on physical media in general, particularly these combo packs which can be split off and sold separately that caused them so much consternation with 3D BD in North America. Just as Disney are keeping their newer 3D wares strictly for streaming, I can see them doing exactly the same thing with UHD/HDR.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Vashetti

I think 'upscale' is the key word. Disney doesn't want to upscale full-stop. If they don't want to upscale 2K then why would they stick 1080p on the disc? That'd be upscaled by the player/receiver/TV.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick...it's not like Disney can prevent owners of 4K TVs from playing Disney DVDs, BDs and HD streams on their sets and upscaling them themselves, is it?

If they want to provide legit 4K content on 4K disc then that's cool, it'd be almost admirable IF they weren't so damned allergic to both finishing in 4K and specialist BD formats (3D, UHD) in the first place! (One Tomorrowland doesn't make a summer)

[jaaguir]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Have you had the chance yet to review uhd discs?

The upscale on 2k movies seems to be effective so far. Not perfect, bit there's more details and a sharper picture.

Definitely want to see how the fox movies compare to the sony and paramount 4k movies.

Quite glowing reviews on this our site for "The martian" and "Exodus". I'm quite shocked, considering other people didn't see much of a difference with the blu-ray.

Kaufman and Liebman say more detail is very noticeable. For "Exodus" he's particularly impressed by close-ups of actor's faces. Sounds like maybe those could be the cgi-free shots they took from the 5k camera files according to the Fox PR guy?

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Excellent point. 1080p with 10-bit 2020 HDR is right there in the spec, so Disney could still jump in if they so wished.

But is it 4:4:4?

Not a crazy huge deal for live-action, but the sharp, flat 2D animation as seen on the '90s CAPS titles is the exact type of content that could really benefit from an increased chroma resolution.

[Geoff D]

No, 4:2:0 is the only subsampling defined in the UHD spec so far (same for 1080p and 2160p).

[guth]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned here, but there's a good reason why 2K->UHD looks much better than 2K->Blu-ray. Blu-ray (UHD or not) uses 4:2:0 chroma subampling but 2K Digital Intermediate is 4:4:4 (if I'm not mistaken). So a lot of color info is lost when converting 2K DI to standard Blu-ray, but when converting 2K DI to UHD Blu-ray only a tiny bit of color info is lost.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by guth

I don't know if this has already been mentioned here, but there's a good reason why 2K->UHD looks much better than 2K->Blu-ray. Blu-ray (UHD or not) uses 4:2:0 chroma subampling but 2K Digital Intermediate is 4:4:4 (if I'm not mistaken). So a lot of color info is lost when converting 2K DI to standard Blu-ray, but when converting 2K DI to UHD Blu-ray only a tiny bit of color info is lost.

But what about when it's upscaled into 4:4:4 2160p at their end and THEN put back down onto UHD Blu at 4:2:0? You're still losing something somewhere, though I get where you're coming from.

[guth]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But what about when it's upscaled into 4:4:4 2160p at their end and THEN put back down onto UHD Blu at 4:2:0? You're still losing something somewhere, though I get where you're coming from.

I'm not sure I understand what your point is. Why would they upscale to 4:4:4 2160p first? And if they did, why would that be a problem? The quality loss in doing so should be somewhere between zero and very small, depending on how they do it. (Unless they screw up completely, of course...)

[Geoff D]

[edit] Actually, scratch that. Like I said, I get where you're coming from.

[guth]

No, I meant upscaling, but directly from 4:4:4 2K to 4:2:0 2160p. Why would they go via 4:4:4 2160p? And again, why would it be a problem if they did go via 4:4:4 2160p?

[Geoff D]

Yeah, I get your first point. But they won't have upscaled these *purely* for compressed 4:2:0 consumer encodes, there will surely be a "pro" 4:4:4 2K to 4:4:4 4K upscale at the uncompressed 'studio master' level, so boiling that down to 4:2:0 after the fact would be introducing yet more layers of chroma processing (i.e. more steps to balls something up or filter something off) than simply going from 2K 4:4:4 directly to 4K 4:2:0 as you suggest. Or I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.

[guth]

Ok, now I understand your point too. Yes, if they do indeed upscale to 4:4:4 2160p first, and then to 4:2:0 2160p (and they use something else than a simple "nearest neighbor" sampling), you will lose a tiny bit of color detail. It's still nothing compared to how much color detail will be lost in going to 4:2:0 1080p for standard Blu-ray, though.

In all the posts I've read about this 2K source "problem", I've never seen this fact mentioned, so I thought I should mention it. (And for those who don't know what 4:2:0 1080p means, it simply means that only the luma (brightness) component has 1920x1080 resolution. The two color components are encoded at only 960x540. 2K Digital Intermediate has full 2048x???? for all components, though.)

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No, 4:2:0 is the only subsampling defined in the UHD spec so far (same for 1080p and 2160p).

Shame, then a 2160p upscale should be preferable.

And I don't know that there are any applications that actually work/edit in YCbCr. Inputs/outputs can be, but it's usually all RGB inbetween, so it will be 2K/1080p "4:4:4" (really RGB) upscaled to 4K/2160p "4:4:4" and then the chroma will be subsampled to 4:2:0 for the BD after that.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Pyoko

Shame, then a 2160p upscale should be preferable.

And I don't know that there are any applications that actually work/edit in YCbCr. Inputs/outputs can be, but it's usually all RGB inbetween, so it will be 2K/1080p "4:4:4" (really RGB) upscaled to 4K/2160p "4:4:4" and then the chroma will be subsampled to 4:2:0 for the BD after that.

Quite right, I forgot about that, RGB isn't a colour difference format so it doesn't need to make such distinctions. Though some would say that digital capture isn't true RGB due to the use of Bayer arrays, it has to get debayered to full RGB to be worked on (not unlike chroma upsampling?) so where do we go from there? So many cans, so many worms, it's enough to make ya head spin.

[Wickerman1972]

Maybe I'm mistaking what this thread is about but doesn't the review at this site say The Martian is mastered in 2k?

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by Wickerman1972

Maybe I'm mistaking what this thread is about but doesn't the review at this site say The Martian is mastered in 2k?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=188