Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk 4K UHD 60p/3D (2016)

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The manual sez it supports 3840x2160 @ 60Hz. So that would be a yes.

Thanks! I don’t know why searching the model and “HFR” doesn’t return anything, maybe I should have used terms like Hz instead!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

Thanks! I don’t know why searching the model and “HFR” doesn’t return anything, maybe I should have used terms like Hz instead!

No worries. "HFR" isn't really a thing that's ever been touted as a [hardware feature on TVs], not until very recently anyway with all the gamers carping on about 4K120 and HDMI 2.1. But 60p support has been in the 4K UHD spec from the start, some older LG TVs have problems playing Dolby Vision in 4K60 (they bump it down to 1080p60 DV instead, or they can disable the DV and watch in 4K60 HDR10) but as yours is a Sammy then it disnae have DV anyway. It should be fine.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No worries. "HFR" isn't really a thing that's ever been touted as a feature, not until very recently anyway with all the gamers carping on about 4K120 and HDMI 2.1. But 60p support has been in the 4K UHD spec from the start, some older LG TVs have problems playing Dolby Vision in 4K60 (they bump it down to 1080p60 DV instead, or they can disable the DV and watch in 4K60 HDR10) but as yours is a Sammy then it disnae have DV anyway. It should be fine.

The UK release of this seems to be OOP but it’s on eBay from a seller with 10+ copies for £14.99. The cover actually has “FIRST TIME EVER: 60 FRAMES PER SECOND” as the tagline!

It looks like the US release includes a 3D disc too, but that isn’t a concern for me.

Is there anything else technical to consider with 4K?

[levcore]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

The UK release of this seems to be OOP but it’s on eBay from a seller with 10+ copies for £14.99. The cover actually has “FIRST TIME EVER: 60 FRAMES PER SECOND” as the tagline!

It looks like the US release includes a 3D disc too, but that isn’t a concern for me.

Is there anything else technical to consider with 4K?

There wasn't a UK 4K UHD of this was there?

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by levcore

There wasn't a UK 4K UHD of this was there?

This is what I’m saying in the post, there was but it seems OOP now. There might be a stray copy in some HMVs, I haven’t looked onto it and lockdown anyway, however this is one of those titles that only seems to be available on the secondary market now. Same with a few other 4K titles like Serenity, King Kong, Jack Reacher, Forrest Gump, Grease, Hancock, Doctor Sleep Extended Cut, and boxsets like Spider-Man, Columbia Classics. The Jack Ryan boxset is £89 on Amazon Marketplace, which makes it seems like it might be OOP.

[Lensman]

Originally Posted by levcore

There wasn't a UK 4K UHD of this was there?

Yes there was and I own it ...

[LexInHD]

I believe the 4K package has not been printed beyond it's initial run, due to low sales, though I suspect there may be a large pile of the unsold discs that have been recirculated from the warehouses of the big names to third-party sellers and discount dealers.

[Vilya]

Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk 4K 3D Blu-ray combo pack is readily available at Amazon, is sold by Amazon, and is shipped by Amazon. Price is $13.78 at present.

https://www.amazon.com/Billy-Lynns-L...s%2C193&sr=8-2

Walmart has it for the same price, sold and shipped by Walmart:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Billy-Lyn...ra-HD/55529096

It is also available at Best Buy, but for $19.99:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/billy-l...?skuId=5709407

[CRSearle]

Originally Posted by levcore

There wasn't a UK 4K UHD of this was there?

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Billy...lu-ray/173484/

If only there was a website that where you could look this stuff up.

[CelestialAgent]

I’m pretty sure I watched this in 60FPS - when I pressed “info” on my TV remote, it said 60, although on the UHD player itself I’m not sure if there’s a way to tell it’s outputting in 60, although as I said, I’m confident it was. I might take a sample of the BD disc to see how the framerate compares, although I can’t put two TVs next to each other.

My feeling is the HFR is more effective in Gemini Man, a film composed more heavily of action scenes, and a film that relies upon the “uncanny valley” quality of interacting with yourself. But I also watched Gemini Man in more optimal conditions, in 3D HFR in a cinema setting (although, the 3D was messed up until an audience member alerted the staff and it was fixed.) So watching the film on a widescreen TV - and not even a large one - likely can’t compare, but then the UK cinema release was a limited one (around 100 screens I believe), none of which screened it in 3D HFR. Gemini Man was limited by the number of venues that could play it in 3D HFR (and those dropped away after the first week), but then it’s a Paramount released action movie starring Will Smith, so of course it was going to be wider.

Billy Lynn’s cinema release likely suffered from technological incompatibility, and not meeting audience expectations. The UK cover is incredibly misleading, with shots of action in Iraq - a sequence that makes up PTSD flashbacks that perhaps takes up 10 minutes of screentime. Steve Martin doesn’t play comedy, but a capitalist turning real life into propaganda profits; Vin Diesel doesn’t get to fight or get into action much, but a spiritual mentor talking about Buddhism

[Show spoiler]and ending up dying

; Kristen Stewart plays an anti-war sister. It’s a war movie about America back home dealing with the aftermath, more in the vein of Last Flag Flying.

The HFR is most noticeable at certain moments, the camera tilting or spinning around 360, heads moving, moving through the house, a vehicle shaking, blood streaming out on the ground, a mouth gasping its final breaths, explosions, a body blown to pieces, soldiers pushing down a door and pulling out their guns, smoke billowing out on stage, stage lights, dancers, cheerleaders moving, balls thrown on the pitch. Many of these moments are replayed in montage at the end of the film. Lee’s technical and filmic language extends beyond the use of HFR, with crossfading and splintered PTSD flashbacks that respond to a present trigger. But the HFR never really feels out of place here and it could be used in so many different contexts - war, action, sports, even porn - that I hope it’s adopted more.

The Ang Lee film this actually reminded me of is Brokeback Mountain - Texas as a place, the American culture of masculinity, sense of home and family, casting actors against type, based on a prose source. The military are also an element in Hulk but these are quite different films.

Using Destiny’s Child from the back of their heads might seem an odd and artificial choice, especially with the digital de-aging and digi-doubles in Gemini Man, but it isn’t ultimately about Destiny’s Child being on that stage, it’s about the soldiers and the spectacle. They become faceless like the soldiers have become. Pop music played a propaganda function after 9/11 (Lindsay Ellis did a video essay about this) that is important to remember - the subplot about making a movie could have been removed to simplify the narrative, but plenty of heroic pro-war films were made during the 2000s and continue to be made - Lee uses this film to dismantle our idea of the war film, whether it is respectful to one’s true story or corrupts it, or turns it into a spectacle to advance deployment and recruitment in the name of patriotism. It’s important to remember that Hollywood scripts get rewritten and rejected to access military support/resources, and can be used to forward the American war machine.

It’s a film that deals with the void, be it sexual or spiritual or patriotic or moral.

I will say maybe the disc could use a calibration feature to assuage any fears of watching it in 24 FPS.

[Brian81]

Is anyone looking for this one with a slip? I have two copies now as apparently that sticker that advertises the frame rate takes the gloss coating off with it if you try to remove it. To top it off, there's a press review quote underneath, which makes it worse. I dislike those even more than stickers. I picked up another with the frame rate sticker still present, and I'm leaving it on this time. It covers up the ugly review quote.

[CelestialAgent]

Rewatching a few scenes using the ‘Moments’ feature. For maximum immersion I’d recommend sitting close to the TV (alternatively, as big a TV as possible) to capture all the motion and detail in the frame - a tree waving in the wind, birds, eyes blinking, snot running down the face - all that detail is there. Head on is strongly recommended because of the emphasis on faces, don’t sit at any kind of angle.

I had a look at the Samsung TV’s ‘Expert Settings’ and I wonder if any of those default settings detracted from the 60 FPS viewing experience. Both ‘Digital Clean View’ and ‘Auto Motion Plus’ to “enhance picture sharpness” were toggled to on automatically!

The 4K Panasonic player also has “Automatic” or “Off” selections for ‘24p Output’.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

I will say maybe the disc could use a calibration feature to assuage any fears of watching it in 24 FPS.

I know you were concerned aboot this before but it's worth highlighting that it'll either play in 60p or it won't play at all, the latter itself being an unlikely scenario because if the player's EDID detects that the display chain can't handle 4K60 HDR then it'll bust it down to 4K60 SDR, or at worst 1080p60 SDR which most TVs have been capable of playing for like a decade or more.

The only player I've come across that can materially alter the frame rate of 4K60 discs is the OPPO, if you want to manually force a 30p output (where it literally just displays every other frame of the 60) then you can use the custom frame rate option called UHD 24. It doesn't output it @ 24 like the name suggests because 24 into 60 doesn't go, i.e. there is no way to pull a 24 signal out of the 60 without causing massive frame drops every few seconds, so it does the closest thing and knocks it down to 30fps instead. (It has to be played in HDR10 to do this, if played in Dolby Vision to a relevant display then that will override the custom frame rate and go back to 4K60. [edit] Tho this only applies to Gemini Man of coursh.)

[CelestialAgent]

I’m not sure if this is a question that’s easily answered, but how does the film handle elements that are presumably not natively 60FPS e.g. the opening logos and TV broadcasts? Did the editor interpolate frames?

My criticism of the film is very minor - the references to Hilary Swank playing trans man Brandon Teena in Boys Don’t Cry seem a little crass - but at the same time for a film about the military in 2004, it could be much more insensitive and transphobic. It’s more a minor joke that doesn’t really need to be there or say anything. The film is a time capsule to the media and pop culture of the time in many respects.

[CelestialAgent]

I don’t understand why some of the extras that would have been shot and rendered in 60FPS like the deleted scenes would only be presented on the 24FPS Blu-ray, rather than on the 4K UHD disc.

I sampled the 24FPS Blu-ray presentation and I would strongly advise against it. The colours still look quite good (not as great as HDR), but the presentation is weak by comparison. Motion whether when the camera or characters are moving just looks like a blur, camera tilts feel awkward. And it loses the detail that can draw a viewer’s eye to the faces of the extras in the stadium, or a phone screen moving. It’s a shame there’s no way to watch it in 3D HFR at home.

[Juan127]

Awweee I wrove Birri Win

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

I’m pretty sure I watched this in 60FPS - when I pressed “info” on my TV remote, it said 60, although on the UHD player itself I’m not sure if there’s a way to tell it’s outputting in 60, although as I said, I’m confident it was. I might take a sample of the BD disc to see how the framerate compares, although I can’t put two TVs next to each other.

The "Display" button on my Sony player remote (and presumably all other Sony UHDBD players) will show framerate as well as HDR/SDR status. In any event, if your TV showed 60 fps it was definitely 60 fps out of the player.

Billy Lynn’s cinema release likely suffered from technological incompatibility, and not meeting audience expectations.

According to Wikipedia, only five theaters in the whole world showed this movie in its original shooting format (4K/3D @ 120 fps), in NYC, LA, Taipei, Beijing & Shanghai. Even the UHDBD doesn't quite get there, though it definitely comes closer than many cinemas that couldn't even do 4K/2D @ 60 fps like the UHDBD and most 4K TVs.

Using Destiny’s Child from the back of their heads might seem an odd and artificial choice, especially with the digital de-aging and digi-doubles in Gemini Man, but it isn’t ultimately about Destiny’s Child being on that stage, it’s about the soldiers and the spectacle. They become faceless like the soldiers have become. Pop music played a propaganda function after 9/11 (Lindsay Ellis did a video essay about this) that is important to remember - the subplot about making a movie could have been removed to simplify the narrative, but plenty of heroic pro-war films were made during the 2000s and continue to be made - Lee uses this film to dismantle our idea of the war film, whether it is respectful to one’s true story or corrupts it, or turns it into a spectacle to advance deployment and recruitment in the name of patriotism. It’s important to remember that Hollywood scripts get rewritten and rejected to access military support/resources, and can be used to forward the American war machine.

I think there were two reasons for that choice: First, Lee intentionally shot much of the film from Billy Lynn's perspective (in part due to the technical challenges of 120 fps), and he was part of the background behind Destiny’s Child. Second, and perhaps more importantly, Destiny’s Child was portrayed by actors -- Katrina Pettiford credited as Kelly, Erin Moore as Michelle, and Elizabeth Chestang as Beyoncé -- who performed to actual Destiny’s Child recordings of "Soldier" and "Lose My Breath"; portraying them from the front would have required lipsyncing, ADR, CGI, etc. that ultimately would have done nothing but prove they weren't the real Destiny’s Child, unless their faces were digitally replaced which raises its own issues. (Destiny’s Child is named as the halftime performers in the movie because they were so named in the original novel; as the filmmakers had to get clearance for their songs from their label -- Columbia Records, owned by Sony -- I'm sure at least Beyoncé, who is still with that label, would have objected if they had an issue with how they were portrayed.) In any event, the effect only enhances Lee’s and the original author's perspective on the psychological cost of war.

I will say maybe the disc could use a calibration feature to assuage any fears of watching it in 24 FPS.

Though I doubt calibration will do anything to assure 60 fps playback, this movie might still be a good excuse to buy the Spears & Munsil 4K calibration disc -- more expensive than the movie itself, but less expensive (and less pandemic risk) than professional calibration.

[lgans316]

Another one that looks better on the ZD9 over the OLED.

I am hoping to see more movies shot in HFR.

[Brian81]

Is this title rare at this point? I bought this twice after trying to remove the large sticker on the slip, to find out it pulled the gloss right off underneath, and revealed marketing b.s. A technical sticker mentioning HFR sure beats that.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Another one that looks better on the ZD9 over the OLED.

I am hoping to see more movies shot in HFR.

lol