HDR Discussion Thread

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well there haven’t been that many and I’m not aware of any specific revelations on that by the content providers. Although live HDR is generally talked about in a peak 1000 nit production environment with regards to converters, I do know though as HLG proponents strive to produce single workflows and in that vein I think their latest thinking is to monitor in the truck or control room at a nominal peak luminance of 600 nits.

There have been more over here than you might realise! There's a very nice write-up here:
The Royal Wedding in High Dynamic Range (it seems so long ago!)

As part of our mission to facilitate HDR production, we have been working hard within the ITU-R’s Rapporteur Group on HDR Television to document current best practice for HDR television production. Last October the ITU-R published their findings in its Report BT.2408, “Operational Practices in HDR Television Production”. The report draws on the experience and expertise of broadcast engineers, colour scientists and colourists from around the world. As well as specifying signal parameters, camera line-up levels and methods for SDR/HDR format conversion, it documents BBC R&D’s findings on monitoring image brightness to ensure comfortable viewing of HDR images in the home, our work adapting the HLG “system gamma” (as noted in ITU-R BT.2100) to ensure the highest image consistency outside of the reference viewing environment, and in the most recent revision (BT.2408-1), our work on signal levels for skin tones.

So, when we were asked to support BBC Television Events in the HDR production of the Royal Wedding, we leapt at the opportunity to put all those learnings into practice.

Following a series of tests with our production partners (hosted by our OB provider for this event, NEP UK) we finally got the go ahead to configure all 76 of the BBC’s UHD cameras (including 3 UHD radio cameras) to capture the wedding of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex in UHD wide colour gamut, BT.2100 Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) HDR. Even though we did not transmit the programme in UHD HDR, we were able to test some important parts of our system during the Royal wedding and preserve it for the archives. With such good weather on the day, the HDR images from both inside and outside the chapel are truly spectacular, and amongst the best I have ever seen.

There are lots of links in the real article to other BBC blogs.

Also:
High Dynamic Range in Live TV Production - 2019 FA Cup Trials

The BBC’s first three UHD HDR series (Planet Earth II, Blue Planet II and Dynasties) were all produced by the Natural History Unit using the Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) high dynamic range (HDR) format, and made available on-demand on BBC iPlayer. But right from the start, HLG was developed with live television production in mind – it is robust to the video processing associated live TV (e.g. mezzanine compression, image filtering and resizing) and does not require metadata.
[...]
For most broadcasters, as the majority of viewers are still watching in SDR, the SDR picture quality must not be impacted in any way by the HDR aspects of the production. So, for the 2018 Royal Wedding, FIFA World Cup and Wimbledon Centre Court trials, a parallel HDR/SDR workflow was deployed. HDR cameras provided HDR and SDR outputs, with each sent to a dedicated HDR or SDR production switcher (vision mixer), with one slaved to the other. Details are given in my Royal Wedding blog. However, such parallel workflows are complex and expensive as they require a great deal more equipment and it can be difficult to synchronise the various signal paths. For UHD HDR production to become mainstream, it is essential that only a single UHD HDR workflow is deployed, and a high-quality SDR output is automatically derived from the UHD HDR programme. So our 2019 FA Cup Trials have focussed on developing a single UHD HDR workflow, that can deliver stunning pictures to both our UHD HDR iPlayer service and the conventional broadcast and streamed SDR services.

The only mention of 600 nits I can find, is for the monitoring in the broadcast truck when aiming to match SDR, not specifically for any peak output for HDR10 viewers (HDR10 viewing, and metadata and its peak nits, is hardly ever mentioned):

HDR Monitoring

Lastly, we found that in the confined space of an outside broadcast truck, it is not always practicable to achieve complete separation between the SDR and HDR monitors in the Vision Engineering area.

As critical monitoring is in SDR, to avoid the camera shaders being affected by glare from an HDR check monitor, the nominal peak luminance of the HLG HDR monitor might be reduced, for example to 600 cd/m2 (requiring a display gamma of 1.10) to reduce the disturbance. HDR Reference White on a 600 cd/m2 HLG display is 138 cd/m2. So a 600 cd/m2 HLG monitor can provide a more reasonable brightness match to typical SDR production monitor.

Given that, surely your comment "I think their latest thinking is to monitor in the truck or control room at a nominal peak luminance of 600 nits" is spot on, but not as a target for viewers, just to help them in that specific task in the truck?

[DanBa]

Latest Multi-HDR table: slight modifications following comments received
. Amazon Prime Video's Dolby Vision "X" => Amazon Prime Video's Dolby Vision X
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...l#post59117076
. Calibration (i: internal or built-in) => Calibration (i: internal or built-in or included)
https://twitter.com/DanielBa78/statu...47507600871426

In order to get inexpensive automated calibration solution accessible to everyone, test pattern generator, colorimeter and calibration software should be internal, built-in or included in the box (i.e. lower calibration tool price with higher volume):
. the pattern generator could be internal or delivered in the box
. the colorimeter / spectrophotometer could be built-in or delivered in the box
. the calibration software could be internal or included in the box




Eizo ColorEdge CG319X: a 4K HDR monitor with uniformity panel control and automated calibration (internal pattern generator, internal 3D LUT, built-in colorimeter, calibration software included running on PC / Mac):
https://www.eizoglobal.com/products/...19x/index.html

. Uniformity Across the Screen
"LCD monitors commonly exhibit fluctuations in brightness and chromaticity across the screen, affecting color accuracy. To counter this, ColorEdge monitors are equipped with Eizo's patented digital uniformity equalizer (DUE) technology which corrects deviations in every tone across the screen to ensure stable display."



. Automated calibration:
"The built-in calibrator which works in conjunction with the famous ColorNavigator software provided with the screen will allow you to perform a perfect calibration with validation according to the latest current standards and this possibly automatically, at a frequency you have defined - 128 h by default or 12 days on average for a professional.
You can still perform a calibration with your favorite sensor but this colorimeter is perfect and the calibration is very fast."
https://www.color-management-guide.c...or-review.html



. Internal pattern generator:
https://kb.portrait.com/help/eizo-monitors

. Internal 3D LUT for accurate color display:
"A 3D LUT is included which adjusts colors individually on an RGB cubic table."



. Built-in calibration sensor
"The ColorEdge CG319X is equipped with a built-in sensor which can be set to calibrate the monitor automatically at designated times. This eliminates the need for a third-party calibration device and ensures your screen stays color-accurate."



. Calibration software included in the box running on PC / Mac
"The proprietary software makes calibration simple."

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

celebrities

https://www.abcactionnews.com/sports...super-bowl-liv
^ those news outlets sure do like showing footage flying over that exclusively revealed dry lake bed, hinted here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post16768709

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

.....Given that, surely your comment "I think their latest thinking is to monitor in the truck or control room at a nominal peak luminance of 600 nits" is spot on, but not as a target for viewers, just to help them in that specific task in the truck?

Not necessarily, I just don’t know as that “specific task” might also translate best for the end product deliverable. The broadcasters seem to learn more and more with each project as to how to make their end product look better than the previous broadcasts and it really won’t be so much based on *the highest dynamic range, the better philosophy*. In the case of the Super Bowl, the determining factor will likely be whatever nits level works best with their special LUTs for most accuracy to the primary colors of the sponsors and to a lesser extent, colors on the pitch.

If I get some time I’ll watch Andrew’s recent presentation on “HDR Live Production – Lessons From the Field” ( https://tech.ebu.ch/events/productio...y-seminar-2020 ) to see if anyone has enumerated the peak brightness of a specific HLG broadcast with a claim, or better yet illustrative proof, e.g. - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...m#post14962613

[LordoftheRings]

Just short of 300,000 views for January 2020, and that's without HDR poles.

[Penton-Man]

Celebrities are everywhere in Miami this weekend -
https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainm...ive/vp-BBZx69R

while their (her) brother is carrying on thee other humble family tradition being hard at work at Keck –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post16696834

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Just short of 300,000 views for January 2020, and that's without HDR poles.

Seems to me that’s down a bit (like well over 100,000 views) from the last couple months. It’s almost as if we’d lost a week’s worth of viewership. Go figure, I guess a few folks here were involved in other more important things.

Between techno posts, maybe to prime people for this – https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Top-G...lu-ray/258948/
we should have posted a few emoji quizzes, but I’m pretty pitiful at that, much worse than Jerry - https://www.nbcmiami.com/entertainme...e-mix/2176337/

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

It’s almost as if we’d lost a week’s worth of viewership.

Not to mention that obvious, the forums were indeed very quiet. But hey we have another in the F&F series coming.

FAST AND FURIOUS 9 Trailer (2020) FAST 9 - YouTube

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Seems to me that’s down a bit (like well over 100,000 views) from the last couple months. It’s almost as if we’d lost a week’s worth of viewership. Go figure, I guess a few folks here were involved in other more important things.

Between techno posts, maybe to prime people for this – https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Top-G...lu-ray/258948/
we should have posted a few emoji quizzes, but I’m pretty pitiful at that, much worse than Jerry - https://www.nbcmiami.com/entertainme...e-mix/2176337/

Coronavirus*

Jerry is in good company here ...

* We have ten new years (120 more months) of viewership for this decade; a lot can happen during that time ... improved HDR, 3D and 8K together, higher LUTs, more poles, Top Gun 3, 4 and 5, and Bruce Norris.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Coronavirus*

I wouldn’t be surprised is some writer out there is already developing a script for that to pitch to a studio in the future. There already are probably some true human interest stories happening if not in the U.S. and Canada, at least in China. I just wish the odds on more dangerous influenza (the flu) would get as much face time every year in encouraging folks to get the vaccine and frequently wash their hands without relying on false claims issued by some hand sanitizer manufacturers.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

FAST AND FURIOUS 9 Trailer (2020) FAST 9 - YouTube

https://wsvn.com/entertainment/stars...ention-center/

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I wouldn’t be surprised is some writer out there is already developing a script for that to pitch to a studio in the future. There already are probably some true human interest stories happening if not in the U.S. and Canada, at least in China. I just wish the odds on more dangerous influenza (the flu) would get as much face time every year in encouraging folks to get the vaccine and frequently wash their hands without relying on false claims issued by some hand sanitizer manufacturers.

There is a vaccine ...

[frogmort]

I always feel like I just had a mild stroke when I check this thread. I also feel like I know just slightly less about HDR every time I poke my head in here too.

Is that Corona supposed to be a Wabo-lure?



Is that obscure and off topic enough to misconstrue my intentions as to why I posted in this thread? Am I doing it right?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

There is a vaccine ...

[Show spoiler]

Well it ^ does have its benefits as documented (close to only a stone’s throw from the beach bar you’ll seeing in Top Gun: Maverick) -> https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post17068464

Anyway, I’m pretty sure we had warmer and clearer weather in SoCal today than they did in Miami Beach, nevertheless they sure seem to be having a lot of fun before the big game…..https://www.military.com/daily-news/...er-hornet.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I also feel like I know just slightly less about HDR every time I poke my head in here too.

Yo frog, stay awake during the lectures and you’ll be fine -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post15634694

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Yo frog, stay awake during the lectures and you’ll be fine -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post15634694

Wabo's hero:

[Penton-Man]

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen you make an appearance in a Technology forum - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...og#post8129516 and as a footloose and fancy-free frog given those infrequent appearances I struggle with your meanings, but I’ll tell you, be it Wabo or whoever, if we live long enough, there will come a time for all of us humans that having an effortless bowel movement will be considered as having had a good day.

P.S.
You still researching every and all things 70mm? Not on wikipedia -> https://www.duntonpfx.com/screening-room <- specifically designed for Chris Nolan for use on – https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6723592/

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I always feel like I just had a mild stroke when I check this thread. I also feel like I know just slightly less about HDR every time I poke my head in here too.

Is that Corona supposed to be a Wabo-lure?

[Show spoiler][IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/YnlXLCYDeeE3m/giphy.gif[/IMG

]

Is that obscure and off topic enough to misconstrue my intentions as to why I posted in this thread? Am I doing it right?

You rang.

Originally Posted by frogmort

Wabo's hero:

[Show spoiler]

Lol. The torture never stops.

[PaulGo]

I watched a bit of the "4K HDR10" pre Super Bowl on FOX Sports and quite frankly it was a disappointment. The quality did not seem any better than normal broadcast TV. I will reserve my final opinion when the Super Bowl is on in the evening.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

I watched a bit of the "4K HDR10" pre Super Bowl on FOX Sports and quite frankly it was a disappointment. The quality did not seem any better than normal broadcast TV. I will reserve my final opinion when the Super Bowl is on in the evening.

Good feedback Paul, and more is welcome from you and others, for by the time the game begins, I for one, will likely be somewhat *under the influence* (hey, I’m not driving anywhere for the rest of the day) and thusly not a reliable discerning viewer for the broadcast.

Originally Posted by Waboman

Lol. The torture never stops.

Wabo, meanwhile, getting you ready for the big game -

Robbie - SNL - YouTube