Coronavirus (NO POLITICAL OR SOCIAL COMMENTARY PLEASE)

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by MrHT

But that's why it was "too much." People insisted I calm down but keeping posting about how we need to prepare that things will never settle, a vaccine will never come out and people will die. If you guys want people like me to calm down and not worry, why post scary nonsense like that, especially claims or possibilities that even experts have yet to prove?

If you want me to take a break, then have the moderators close the thread again. But so long as they want it open and people want to continue posting here, then that means this thread is important enough to keep reading...

it seems you blindly believe everything you hear and read. you need to look at multiple sources, contradicting sources, and come to some educated conclusions yourself especially when we're talking about a virus no one really knows anything about.

Originally Posted by Underworld54

People want you to think everyone is at risk, which isn't true.

to be fair, there is risk for everyone, from infants to 100 year olds...the difference is the amount of risk obviously...

Originally Posted by mar3o

So you're healthy, go to work, get the virus, you're okay because you're healthy, but you swing by Dunkin' Donuts and pass it to the old man in front of you in line who then gets it and dies. That's how it works.

someone responded but your example is ridiculous lol... the argument was for high risk people to stay home or take the risk by going out...the elderly person at DD shouldnt be out to begin with and if they are, they know the risk and thats on them. honestly, its on anyone who decides they want to go out, young or old.

Originally Posted by danman227460

That is a slippery slope. So you are allowing certain people out but people who are high risk to stay home. So you expect people to not feel snubbed, excluded or forced to stay home while everyone else is out there.

Why should low risk Bob with no kids, no parents be able to work but Old Bob who has to feed his family can't because he is classified as high risk?

That is the rub. There is no way to enforce people who should be out VS people shouldn't. As that has been made clear, no one listens to the rules.

To expect people to obey certain rules set for them and them only requires a lot of acceptance and tolerance of their role. As one would say, act unselfishly. That is putting a lot of faith in people.

it would be a choice. why should everyone suffer the stay at home mandate for the very few who are considered high risk? anyone will/would be able to go out but they would be recommended to stay home. i really dont understand why that is such a hard concept for people to understand or agree with.

Originally Posted by mar3o

There's something lots of you continue to forget.

[Show spoiler]We were hit unexpectedly and were not prepared. Hospitals were overflowing with patients and they were coming in by the tens of thousands and dying 24/7. No place to put bodies in some cases there were so many. They didn't have proper supplies or equipment. Not enough beds. No idea what they were dealing with. If they had not locked things down, it would have spiraled ever further out of control. It has slowed down because of the shutdown.

Because of this shutdown, it is giving hospitals time to prepare. They're still treating tens of thousands of patients, many who will die before this is over. But this is allowing them time to learn about what they are dealing with, and time to get supplies in, without the number of patients skyrocketing further. So that when (when, not if) we get another wave this fall/winter, they will be better prepared to handle it. Opening things up all at once, too soon, or letting people flock to beaches and theatres and malls, could very well put us right back to square one. We need to get things open again, yes - slowly, but it needs to be thought through carefully, and malls and beaches should not be the first priority.

Also, people say "some will die" without giving a moment's thought to how they will die. Yes, people die all the time. These are tens of thousands of deaths in a very short period of time, with great suffering, being terrified, and often dying without their families even being allowed to be there during their final moments. How would some of you like to die alone without your family even being allowed to be next to you? It's not just the dying, it's the horrible way that they're dying - scared and alone without anybody beside them.

So maybe some of these experts know a bit more about what they're doing than some of the forum posters and Yahoo commenters and Fox news. There are no easy answers. I can understand worrying about jobs. I can understand worrying about the economy (but not at the expense of lives). But some are out there whining just because the beaches are closing again. Talk about having the wrong priorities.

actually, it seems you are forgetting something pretty important. the entire reason for the stay at home was to not overwhelm the healthcare system, right? well, the curve is flattening meaning hospitals wont be at risk of being overwhelmed. NYC is giving ventilators away, so now what is the excuse to stay home?

the stay at home order was absolutely necessary in order to deal with the influx of patients going to the hospitals initially, agreed. a few more weeks and most areas of the country should be able to deal with patients coming in.

no one is saying to magically just open everything up, thats been said a hundred times, but there is no reason, especially certain parts of the country, to not start getting "non essential" workers back to work.

for example, I'm in CT. they just released their "phases" for re-opening and phase one is the opening of hari and nail salons. how can you possibly tell me that its OK to have someone physically touching me and that is "safe" but other "non essential" stores are NOT safe to be opened? makes absolutely no sense.

[meremortal]

A bunch of states are mostly re-opening today and they weren't kidding. Drove past several store parking lots that looked nearly like Black Friday with all the cars. The only store I went inside was the grocery store and even then I kind of hate when we run out of perishables since I'd rather not go. It seemed like the reduction in masks worn was at least half compared to a few days ago. People are basically saying "I'm over it" or think lifted shelter orders means the virus is basically going away or was never a 'threat to begin with. People are really letting their guard down right now and basically moving on like there's not a pandemic.

[AFFanAttic]

Originally Posted by Underworld54

Everyone! Well everyone except those who see and understand the data.

To recap:
• You said we should only quarantine the most vulnerable people.
• I asked why you think governments and countries around the globe haven't done quarantine in this way if it could be a viable option.
• Your answer was "People want you to think everyone is at risk, which isn't true."
• Which people?
• Everyone! Except those who understand the data.

Do you understand the data better than the people making these massive impactful decisions? Why aren't the CDC and WHO and Fauci recommending opening things back up but keeping only the most vulnerable indoors?

[Underworld54]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Good stuff from the WHO's top emergencies expert!

Sweden this past Sunday...from the NY Post's article reporting the same:



Looks almost alien after 7 weeks of lockdown doesn't it?

They look so happy, and we're stuck here being miserable.

[rocknblues81]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

It's not overwhelming because of the social distancing practices. You get rid of that prematurely and you will see hospitals exceed their capacities soon enough.

More likely it has a lot to do with densely populated vs. less densely populated.

NY is sorta like Wuhan. That’s a big reason they’re having way more issues than everyone else. I’m pretty sure NY and California put their messures in at roughly the same time frame... But NY is more densely populated and has had it far worse.

[meremortal]

The problem with only quarantining the most vulnerable is the simple matter that many of these people live with or even depend on younger family members who are less vulnerable of perhaps death but can still acquire and transmit the virus. It's not uncommon for people to live well past their teen years with parents or even grandparents and many end up moving back in with them. Plus, it's still unknown of the long-term side effects among those who recover.

[MrHT]

Originally Posted by rocknblues81

More likely it has a lot to do with densely populated vs. less densely populated.

NY is sorta like Wuhan. That’s a big reason they’re having way more issues than everyone else. I’m pretty sure NY and California put their messures in at roughly the same time frame... But NY is more densely populated and has had it far worse.

It's crowded everywhere. Over the past five years, I've taken vacations to Washington DC, New Jersey, Boston, Los Angeles, and Canada. All are very crowded and not much of an escape from the hustle and bustle of NYC. I've yet to take a vacation that feels like a real escape from the city. I think the world itself it just too overpopulated.

I can try Disney World but looking at youtube videos, it looks pretty crowded there too.

[rocknblues81]

Originally Posted by Underworld54

Notice all this thread is are members going back and forth pointlessly? People who think the economies should open up and those of you who do not. I'm done with this circle jerk, constantly repeating myself. I'll continue to post my thoughts, and those with common thoughts I'd be happy to converse with. No one is going to change any one else's mind at this point.

Agreed. There isn’t much point in arguing about it.

I’ve been doing so for months on Facebook and such. Nobody ever changes the others mind in my experiences.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by MrHT

It's crowded everywhere. Over the past five years, I've taken vacations to Washington DC, New Jersey, Boston, Los Angeles, and Canada. All are very crowded and not much of an escape from the hustle and bustle of NYC. I've yet to take a vacation that feels like a real escape from the city. I think the world itself it just too overpopulated.

I mean, you've chosen places that also have metropolises/urban cities. You can easily vacation somewhere that has a sparse population.

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by meremortal

A bunch of states are mostly re-opening today and they weren't kidding. Drove past several store parking lots that looked nearly like Black Friday with all the cars. The only store I went inside was the grocery store and even then I kind of hate when we run out of perishables since I'd rather not go. It seemed like the reduction in masks worn was at least half compared to a few days ago. People are basically saying "I'm over it" or think lifted shelter orders means the virus is basically going away or was never a 'threat to begin with. People are really letting their guard down right now and basically moving on like there's not a pandemic.

All I want is for someone to tell me masks are no longer necessary. I can't breathe in those things and I'm sick (no pun intended) of wearing them. I just found out my bosses are going to have everyone temperature-screened when they enter the building and guess who's going to have to do that? Moi. How am I supposed to answer phones, talk to the public AND take hundreds of people's temperatures all while wearing an uncomfortable mask?

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by meremortal

The problem with only quarantining the most vulnerable is the simple matter that many of these people live with or even depend on younger family members who are less vulnerable of perhaps death but can still acquire and transmit the virus. It's not uncommon for people to live well past their teen years with parents or even grandparents and many end up moving back in with them. Plus, it's still unknown of the long-term side effects among those who recover.

well guess what, if you live with someone who is vulnerable, common sense would say for those individuals to remain sheltered as well with them or assume the risk of bringing it home, as they currently do now.

has common sense been taken away by corona too?

Originally Posted by MrHT

It's crowded everywhere. Over the past five years, I've taken vacations to Washington DC, New Jersey, Boston, Los Angeles, and Canada. All are very crowded and not much of an escape from the hustle and bustle of NYC. I've yet to take a vacation that feels like a real escape from the city. I think the world itself it just too overpopulated.

I can try Disney World but looking at youtube videos, it looks pretty crowded there too.

its crowded everywhere lol...goes on to state hes been to DC, NJ?, Boston, LA and an entire country....you just listed MAJOR cities, an entire country and an entire state...

take a trip upstate and you wont find it crowded. your logic is astounding

[meremortal]

Originally Posted by Lacit170

well guess what, if you live with someone who is vulnerable, common sense would say for those individuals to remain sheltered as well with them or assume the risk of bringing it home, as they currently do now.

has common sense been taken away by corona too?

ideally. But a lot of people assume if you "don't feel sick," then you are a not. And even among those who are they might just think it's allergies or something else. Plenty of younger people also assume that it's just a infection that "kills really old people" but don't think for a moment how the virus has no age or generational boundaries as far as transmission. Common sense would certainly go a long way.

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by meremortal

ideally. But a lot of people assume if you "don't feel sick," then you are a not. And even among those who are they might just think it's allergies or something else. Plenty of younger people also assume that it's just a disease that "kills really old people" but don't think for a moment how the virus has no age or generational bounds as far as transmission. Common sense would certainly go a long way.

if they are too stupid to understand, thats their own prerogative. dont punish everyone for the ignorance of others.

[meremortal]

Originally Posted by rocknblues81

Maybe the issue is people not just bowing down and accepting silly draconian measures for a virus that will have a 1% death rate or less.

With certain age cohorts that is true. But it's not the only thing to focus on. People are going into ARDS, there is a puzzling increase in people developing clots and strokes, plus there is evidence that there could be brain, lung, or kidney scarring in a growing number of people. Overall, most people likely will not die but they may be less well off after recovery and beyond than they were before acquiring COVID-19. Death is an easy, cut and dry measure to study since it's obvious, but the long term recovery effects are less apparent in the short term and are worth considering as well. Unfortunately it's still way too early to know their full extent at this point.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by meremortal

With certain age cohorts that is true. But it's not the only thing to focus on. People are going into ARDS, there is a puzzling increase in people developing clots and strokes, plus there is evidence that there could be brain, lung, or kidney scarring in a growing number of people. Overall, most people likely will not die but they may be less well off after recovery and beyond than they were before acquiring COVID-19. Death is an easy, cut and dry measure to study since it's obvious, but the long term recovery effects are less apparent in the short term and are worth considering as well. Unfortunately it's still way too early to know their full extent at this point.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by meremortal

A bunch of states are mostly re-opening today and they weren't kidding. Drove past several store parking lots that looked nearly like Black Friday with all the cars. The only store I went inside was the grocery store and even then I kind of hate when we run out of perishables since I'd rather not go. It seemed like the reduction in masks worn was at least half compared to a few days ago. People are basically saying "I'm over it" or think lifted shelter orders means the virus is basically going away or was never a 'threat to begin with. People are really letting their guard down right now and basically moving on like there's not a pandemic.

Well if enough people disregard social distancing and wearing masks as required, then cases will probably spike and they'll close things down again. It's up to the people living there to make it work. Hopefully your anecdotal observation isn't going to be the norm where you live.

[Batman1980]

Hope in 1 hand and ish in the other, see which hand fills up first.

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by Batman1980

Hope in 1 hand and ish in the other, see which hand fills up first.

precisely how i feel waiting for a vaccine...

[danman227460]

I agree with you. But my issue is expecting everyone to actually follow the rules. There are just too many stories of people ignoring recommendations or flaunting the rules.

That is my sticking point. In a perfect world, everyone will understand their role so we can open up and follow the plans people have recommended. I have no issue with that. I just don't trust people enough to not lick something, touch something or do something so stupid that causes a suddenly flare up of cases.

All it takes is either one or many people who decide the rules aren't for them, go out and leave traces of the virus around.

If you want a case of stupidity, look at the college students who went out during spring break. Contacted the virus and bought it home with them. Now imagine that on a national wide scale.

Another case. Remember the ice cream licking scandal? Now imagine if some idiot with COVID, who doesn't know it and decided to do a similar challenge.

I have a local story of people coughing on money, handing it to clerks and saying hope you catch COVID.

About common sense, the world has none anymore. I see that everyday, even before COVID. For every 1 person who has it, there are 100 who doesn't.

Originally Posted by Lacit170

it would be a choice. why should everyone suffer the stay at home mandate for the very few who are considered high risk? anyone will/would be able to go out but they would be recommended to stay home. i really dont understand why that is such a hard concept for people to understand or agree with.

[Lacit170]

Originally Posted by danman227460

I agree with you. But my issue is expecting everyone to actually follow the rules. There are just too many stories of people ignoring recommendations or flaunting the rules.

That is my sticking point. In a perfect world, everyone will understand their role so we can open up and follow the plans people have recommended. I have no issue with that. I just don't trust people enough to not lick something, touch something or do something so stupid that causes a suddenly flare up of cases.

All it takes is either one or many people who decide the rules aren't for them, go out and leave traces of the virus around.

totally agree some people are idiots. but why not slowly open, see what happens, and whatever areas see a spike, go back to stay at home orders until it levels off again?

what if things dont go as badly as worst case scenarios. wont ever know if you dont try