Coronavirus (NO POLITICAL OR SOCIAL COMMENTARY PLEASE)

[DanTheMan]

Wish that businesses would include this on their door note:

No Mask?

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Dining Dead

I think I would have more respect for people if they actually admitted "I am willing to risk killing others for my own selfish pleasure."

Yeah one problem with that. The people I come in proximity to are taking the same risk. All those afraid to breathe will stay in their fortresses of solitude anyway where I can’t get to them.

[Bigdog]

Originally Posted by DanTheMan

I was at work (retail) the other day, and this guy came speeding in without a mask. Our security informed him he couldn't enter any further unless he had a mask on. The customer lifted the top of his shirt a little bit and covered his mouth and nose, while holding it with his hand like an idiot. Security said it's not a mask, he would need to leave the building until he has a proper one (even a scarf) on. Dude kept walking inside like a tough guy, yelling "It's the same damn thing."

Security must've let him shop like that anyway as to not create a bigger scene, but I noticed by the time the customer got back to self-checkout, he was totally uncovered while paying. Then he checks his bag afterwards right in front of the shopping carts at the entrance where everyone is walking in/out. I couldn't believe the gall of some of these people out there.

Imo I think we would have better result's making retail carry mask's to offer to customers looking to shop, they could probably even make a small profit on it but I don't see any of that taking place.

All you will do with this no entry policy is cause confrontation, offer a 25 cent mask for say 50 cents and conflict avoided and you have everyone wearing mask's.

[Batman1980]

DanTheMan's example is not going to wear a mask, he's "too important" to follow the rules.

[bruceames]

Stock market soaring today on news regarding positive human trial developments on a vaccine from Moderna (where 8 brave volunteers developed antibodies), and optimism regarding another stimulus package

https://news.yahoo.com/modernas-expe...115810277.html

[Bigdog]

Originally Posted by Batman1980

DanTheMan's example is not going to wear a mask, he's "too important" to follow the rules.

I'm saying when you present someone the option of a mask you can avoid these conflicts. It's easier for retail to order a pallet of surgical mask which will cost them probably around 5 cents a piece and they could even flip them for a small profit. No one is going to sit their and ***** about a couple coins for a mask, they will buy it and use it, you then have all customers wearing a mask and you can make a small little profit at the same time.

It is not particularly easy to find even basic surgical mask right now around towns or city's, they can be ordered though from suppliers it seems. Our company has order them by the thousands. Maybe make the law if you want to open your business you have to have mask's to offer your customers to use. All you will get is problems with a hard no mask no entry and then give them no option to at lerast purchase a mask to use.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Bigdog

Imo I think we would have better result's making retail carry mask's to offer to customers looking to shop, they could probably even make a small profit on it but I don't see any of that taking place.

All you will do with this no entry policy is cause confrontation, offer a 25 cent mask for say 50 cents and conflict avoided and you have everyone wearing mask's.

Agreed. Have disposable masks that they can pay for at checkout. They are not as scarce as they used to be and not many customers will need them.

[Monterey Jack]

Just a cheap paper mask is enough for a short grocery run.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Hatter

For the love of anything can people stop acting like all cases equates with certain death. Honestly. It is entirely possible to go out this summer and stay virus free following some public places guidelines. Same with opening existing businesses. You know and In turn help save the economy. Governments can’t keep borrowing money forever to give out to citizens and businesses to stay locked up.

Last time I checked, that whole mental health is equally important and is a big issue in the world doesn’t magically disappear because something new comes along.

It's entirely possible to smoke your entire life and not come down with cancer, too. My grandmother did it. But it's not a good idea because of the high risk.

I do agree that we can't expect people to stay inside ll year. If this had a very high death rate, then yeah, that would be different. But depression is indeed a thing we will need to be concerned about. Mental health is serious and there are already enough people out there who have mental health issues without making it worse. On the other hand we can't just blindly open up everything. There needs to be a balance, factoring in the financial issues for both companies and individuals, and the health of the citizens, which should absolute come first above all else.

One thing I don't see mentioned is that people keep saying open it all back up, but as soon as any retail shop or restaurant or office is contaminated and an employee gets the virus, it will instantly need to shut down for a good week or two for cleaning. This will be happening sporadically all year. My girlfriend was going into work every Friday for paperwork and to touch-base, until one of the 16 employees that were coming in came down with it a couple weeks ago. Now the office is totally shut down for cleaning. This will be something we will need to deal with. The virus isn't going anywhere and we will be living with it until a vaccine is available, if it happens at all. We needed this time to allow hospitals to recover as we were all unprepared, but we should now be planning for another round this fall so it shouldn't be a surprise later this year.

So even when things start to re-open, at any time, any of these places may need to shut down temporarily for safety concerns. You can't keep having people come into the office after an employee reports that they have it.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Also people seem to equate outdoor risk as the same as indoors, but it's actually much, much safer. Open air rapidly dilutes virus particles and the wind provides plenty of circulation. It's actually hard to get it outside unless you engage in prolonged face-to-face close contact with someone (over 15 minutes), or someone coughs or sneezes directly into your face. Also viruses don't live well on outside surfaces, especially those exposed to sunlight. This is a virus well over 99% contracted from indoor locations.

I don't think it's safe to state all this as fact yet. We hear lots of different information and while I do believe it's safer by far outside than inside, we don't know enough yet to state much of anything as fact. This "15 minute" thing outside could easily change as they learn more.

It does appear to be true that the virus doesn't tend to live long on surfaces in general. We keep hearing it can last _X_ amount of days on cardboard/glass/plastic, etc., but from what I've read, the virus is dying by the hour. It can last on cardboard for up to a day, but much of the virus will be deal before the 24 hours.

Remember too that it seems we need to be exposed to a certain amount of it to get infected. They're saying a trace amount may not be enough to infect us. So while there may be some of the virus still alive on a particular surface, it may not be enough to infect us.

I agree the biggest risk is indoors, though I worry about things like door handles for public places like busy restaurants (Dunkin' Donuts, McDonald's) where hands are constantly touching them.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Is it selfish to do what the local government restrictions allows us to do? Are we to follow their guidelines or the wishes of the most fearful?

Since when does the government (any government) have our best interests as their main concern? The recommendations from many of those in charge have been deplorable from the beginning. Have you not heard the recommendation from that lunatic about her idea to fully re-open Las Vegas?

We should be considering what the doctors/scientists are saying about this, not politicians where money/agendas are their driving concerns.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I don't think it's safe to state all this as fact yet. We hear lots of different information and while I do believe it's safer by far outside than inside, we don't know enough yet to state much of anything as fact. This "15 minute" thing outside could easily change as they learn more.

It does appear to be true that the virus doesn't tend to live long on surfaces in general. We keep hearing it can last _X_ amount of days on cardboard/glass/plastic, etc., but from what I've read, the virus is dying by the hour. It can last on cardboard for up to a day, but much of the virus will be deal before the 24 hours.

Remember too that it seems we need to be exposed to a certain amount of it to get infected. They're saying a trace amount may not be enough to infect us. So while there may be some of the virus still alive on a particular surface, it may not be enough to infect us.

I agree the biggest risk is indoors, though I worry about things like door handles for public places like busy restaurants (Dunkin' Donuts, McDonald's) where hands are constantly touching them.

I feel pretty comfortable stating it as I did. I can dig up sources later if I have time, but I've already posted several of them in this thread. If you find anything contradictory then please post it. I just want to learn as much as possible and I appreciate the articles you posted here.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Since when does the government (any government) have our best interests as their main concern? The recommendations from many of those in charge have been deplorable from the beginning. Have you not heard the recommendation from that lunatic about her idea to fully re-open Las Vegas?

We should be considering what the doctors/scientists are saying about this, not politicians where money/agendas are their driving concerns.

Well doctors and scientists don't have all the same views. Which ones should we listen to? When local governments impose restrictions or loosen them, then those are the guidelines to be followed. One can choose to be more cautious then those guidelines, but not less so of course. One shouldn't pass judgement on those who follow the rules in place, just because they are being more cautious than others.

[TheBoss062]

Does wearing a mask actually work?

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by TheBoss062

Does wearing a mask actually work?

They help a lot in enclosed areas. The main benefit is blocking the large droplets that leave you mouth when coughing or sneezing, and talking or heavy breathing as well. Those droplets would exit straight out of your mouth so any gaps around the mask edges isn't a big deal, as the inside of the mask will soak up the droplets that leave your mouth. Although they are not good at all for the finer droplets (aerosols), that type of infection is rather uncommon, unless your in a crowded enclosed space with little ventilation.

You'll also get some protection from others as the large droplets won't be able to penetrate through a double layer cloth mask.

But outside I actually don't think they're necessary unless you're in a crowded area, and especially if you're just standing next to an infected person for a while. But since they are the rules to have them on whenever you're within 6 feet of someone, then they must be followed.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by bruceames

I feel pretty comfortable stating it as I did. I can dig up sources later if I have time, but I've already posted several of them in this thread. If you find anything contradictory then please post it. I just want to learn as much as possible and I appreciate the articles you posted here.

I mean so far what you stated in that quote is pretty much what I've been reading too, and I'd say it's a safe way to operate right now. I think the risk is far less outdoors, in terms of catching it form somebody else. I think the big risk outside is the door handles and things like that (McDonald's is removing their self-service soda machines which is a good idea I believe - those are always nasty anyways). I was just pointing out more as a reminder that at any time, things can of course change, and the advice we get today may not be the same advice we get tomorrow or next week, so people need to use their best judgement and exercise due caution.

[MrHT]

Originally Posted by Chaotic

So we should stay at home for the rest our lives? The virus isn't going anywhere.

It isn't going anywhere because people aren't doing what they're told. When a MASSIVE amount of people hang out at Sheep Meadows at Central Park during a global pandemic and the crowd has gotten to the point where the NYPD needs to come in and close the park, then there's your reason on why this virus isn't going anywhere.

If people limit their outdoor activities for essential purposes and maybe just a brief walk while social distancing to get fresh air, then the spread will slow significantly. It's already slowing significantly here in NYC, but can you imagine how much better we'd be if everyone did what they were told? Just sayin...

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Well doctors and scientists don't have all the same views. Which ones should we listen to? When local governments impose restrictions or loosen them, then those are the guidelines to be followed. One can choose to be more cautious then those guidelines, but not less so of course. One shouldn't pass judgement on those who follow the rules in place, just because they are being more cautious than others.

Oh agreed. That's what's been most frustrating. The scientists don't all agree on everything, which is of course natural for something like this, though I think they do tend to agree on the basics at this point. This might be what ultimately leads to a working vaccine though, as different ideas and thought processes all working towards the same goal means more chances of somebody getting it right, versus them all thinking the same.

I just mean in general, I'd listen to the advice of the scientists and medical experts over the advice of our politicians.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I mean so far what you stated in that quote is pretty much what I've been reading too, and I'd say it's a safe way to operate right now. I think the risk is far less outdoors, in terms of catching it form somebody else. I think the big risk outside is the door handles and things like that (McDonald's is removing their self-service soda machines which is a good idea I believe - those are always nasty anyways). I was just pointing out more as a reminder that at any time, things can of course change, and the advice we get today may not be the same advice we get tomorrow or next week, so people need to use their best judgement and exercise due caution.

Thanks for the heads up on the way I may have written it. I probably have a unfortunate way sometimes of coming across as stating things as fact, when it's something that hasn't yet been universally accepted. I need to be more aware of that.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Thanks for the heads up on the way I may have written it. I probably have a unfortunate way sometimes of coming across as stating things as fact, when it's something that hasn't yet been universally accepted. I need to be more aware of that.

No worries, I don't mean to come across as picking your post apart. We all tend to state our opinions as facts. It's the nature of communication on the internet I guess.