4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by Brightstar

Thank you so much you made my day best news ever !! Now i dont have to wait years for my favorite movie to come out

Region free was something I really glad to see.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

No way does this gen go 8 years before seeing 9th generation hardware.

If anything this gen will be shorter then last, which was indeed longer than any previous generation.

We go by the first console of the generation life cycle that's Xbox 360 launching on November 22 2005 and then xbox one launching November 22 2013 (November 15 for PS4). That's exactly 8 years which is way too long for home console tech and is the longest amount of time between console generations there has ever been since generation 1.

why did you go with xbox instead of the PS dates? Don't get me wrong, I don't care about the platforms, but if we look at xbox (first generation) it came out in November 2001 the 360 November 2005 (4 years) the xbone Nov 2013 (8years) like you said. With PS I showed why I went with ~6 years ( plus or minus a year) before the next generation. But with only two data points for MS (4 years and 8 years) and if we did not look at anything else (like PS because Sony is evil ) how can you be certain what the numbers mean? for example G1= 4y, G2=8y because every generation should be twice as long as the previous one? and so G3 should be 16 years?

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Nintendo would like to know where you got that info...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._game_consoles

Wii + Playstation 3 + Xbox 360 sold approximately 269.4 million consoles.

Xbox + Gamecube + Playstation 2 + Dreamcast sold approximately 211.4 million consoles.

Nintendo 64 + Playstation + Sega Saturn sold approximately 144.92 million consoles.

Super Nintendo + Sega Genesis + Turbographx-16 sold approximately 99.1 million consoles.

Sega Master System + Nintendo Entertainment System sold approximately 76.71 million consoles.


Companies go up and down, but overall console sales keep increasing.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Once you get into PS4 vs Xbox unit sales discussion and PC gaming, we are off topic.

no one is talking unit sales directly.

I agree that it is mostly irrelevant since, for example, I am sure there are people that owned the 360 and a BD player. but it is kind of relevant since if the PS4 or xbone can play UHD BDs that does mean a very large install base is already out there.

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

no one is talking unit sales directly.

I agree that it is mostly irrelevant since, for example, I am sure there are people that owned the 360 and a BD player. but it is kind of relevant since if the PS4 or xbone can play UHD BDs that does mean a very large install base is already out there.

Here is the thing, the PS4 and Xbox posturing has been going on since 10/15, and its been all over the place. The same folks go back and forth, each person claiming they are right.

Maybe the PS4 vs Xbox vs UHD would be better in it's own thread. Im not sure why you need 10 days to prove a point.

Or, just keep on for another 10 days, I have the ignore button!

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Here is the thing, the PS4 and Xbox posturing has been going on since 10/15, and its been all over the place. The same folks go back and forth, each person claiming they are right.

Maybe the PS4 vs Xbox vs UHD would be better in it's own thread. Im not sure why you need 10 days to prove a point.

Or, just keep on for another 10 days, I have the ignore button!

It's not really distracting from anything else. When someone posts news (or rumors) about UHD than the topic changes to discuss that news. Most recently the news was about PS4 and XB1 so that's what is being discussed now. When someone posts about something else the discussion will switch gears again.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._game_consoles
Companies go up and down, but overall console sales keep increasing.

Yeah, but AFAIK the Wii to Wii-U has dropped off a cliff, I don't see them recovering anytime soon.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

A fixed function HEVC hardware decoder for CPUs/GPUs only became possible this year so there is no way that it could be in the PS4/XB1. Note that partial GPU acceleration for HEVC is not the same thing as a fixed function HEVC hardware decoder. You can offload about 30% of HEVC decoding to a GPU that lacks a HEVC decoder which is why it is normally called "partial acceleration" and the majority still has to be done on the CPU. The CPU used in the PS4/XB1 isn't even close to sufficient and even if you doubled the number of CPU cores it still wouldn't be enough. 4K HEVC at 100 Mbps with 10-bit video takes an incredible amount of CPU power to decode and realistically the only way a current game console could do it would be with a fixed function HEVC decoder.

The problem isn't with HEVC decoding, which can be quite reasonable for 8-bit video with a low resolution and a low bit rate, but with decoding 4K HEVC at 100 Mbps with 10-bit video (10-bit HEVC basically doubles the amount of processing power needed for CPU decoding).

The XB1 to PC game streaming is ENCODING something less than 1080P using HEVC. Encoding is "incredibly" more demanding than decoding.

The Xtensa processor is not a fixed function HEVC codec but a stream processor @ about 350 Mhz with up to 64 processors. Kaveri uses one as the UVD4 HEVC accelerator and does not use the GPU or X-86 CPU at all. Carrizo uses a more powerful version @ 30% duty cycle to do the same. The Xtensa IVP was available to partners before 2013 and custom designed Xtensa DPUs are a Cadence feature.



From a Sony lecture on True Audio in the PS4 is this Xtensa slide. The part in blue is what it can support, the parts in Grey are Cadence IP that can be used by AMD in their APUs and the XB1.



I researched this 10/2014 and posted my findings here.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

why did you go with xbox instead of the PS dates? Don't get me wrong, I don't care about the platforms, but if we look at xbox (first generation) it came out in November 2001 the 360 November 2005 (4 years) the xbone Nov 2013 (8years) like you said. With PS I showed why I went with ~6 years ( plus or minus a year) before the next generation. But with only two data points for MS (4 years and 8 years) and if we did not look at anything else (like PS because Sony is evil ) how can you be certain what the numbers mean? for example G1= 4y, G2=8y because every generation should be twice as long as the previous one? and so G3 should be 16 years?

Reason is the first 7th gen console released was the Xbox 360.

Not to confuse ya or anything but the 8th gen consoles started with the Wii U. 9th will start when NX launches either next year or year after.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

The XB1 to PC game streaming is ENCODING something less than 1080P using HEVC. Encoding is "incredibly" more demanding than decoding.

A larger percentage of HEVC encoding can be done on a GPU and the difficulty of HEVC encoding depends on the settings. For the same HEVC encoder the speed difference can be more than 1000x between the lowest and highest settings depending on which features the encoder uses and the size of the motion search range.

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

The Xtensa processor is not a fixed function HEVC codec but a stream processor @ about 350 Mhz with up to 64 processors. [/URL] Kaveri uses one as the UVD4 HEVC accelerator and does not use the GPU or X-86 CPU at all. Carrizo uses a more powerful version @ 30% duty cycle to do the same. The Xtensa IVP was available to partners before 2013 and custom designed Xtensa DPUs are a Cadence feature.

AMD added fixed function HEVC decoding to UVD6 which only started being used in products this year.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

A larger percentage of HEVC encoding can be done on a GPU and the difficulty of HEVC encoding depends on the settings. For the same HEVC encoder the speed difference can be more than 1000x between the lowest and highest settings depending on which features the encoder uses and the size of the motion search range.

AMD added fixed function HEVC decoding to UVD6 which only started being used in products this year.

Kaveri is used primarily as a desktop processor while Carrizo is designed for tablets and has a need for more energy efficiency. The UVD6 Xtensa processor has some fixed function blocks added so that it is more efficient at HEVC. Till HEVC was finalized those fixed function blocks couldn't be part of a design. This does not mean that Intel Skylake and AMD Kaveri's UVD4.2 can't handle 10 bit HEVC DECODING.

Cadence-Tensilica-Xtensa processors are custom designs with custom routines built from a library of hardware and software routines. Microsoft and Sony designed the Xtensa processors they use for the features they wanted to support. Since they are consoles connected to the mains they do not have the power constraints that cameras, phones, tablets and TVs (TVs have to comply with California power modes) would have.

No doubt the latest PS4 revision has a Xtensa processor that contains the fixed function block that makes the Xtensa processor in Carrizo more efficient but that does not preclude the Xtensa processor in the older PS4's Southbridge from supporting the HEVC codec routines needed by UHD Blu-ray. The latest PS4 revision did touch the Southbridge, functions for several IO chips were moved into Southbridge.

Does anyone have information that Kaveri and Skylake won't support UHD Blu-ray's HEVC? I would find it strange if they don't as computers do have energy-star and EU power mode requirements for video playback in all it's forms.

Again, to be clear, the Xtensa processor used by Kaveri or that used in the XB1 or PS4 is a software based accelerator and not a fixed function decoder for HEVC. It has fixed function blocks that can accelerate codecs but can handle MPEG, VP9, h.264, MOV, HEVC, JPEG, Zip and more. It can also encrypt and decrypt video streams for DRM schemes both incoming like Playready or outgoing like HDCP 2.2 without using the GPU.

Did Microsoft and Sony design in HEVC support for UHD streaming and Blu-ray? It seems so for Microsoft and I think so for Sony.

[Frank@Chicago]

I was at Target a few weeks ago (to pickup Tomorrowland) and the electronics clerk brought up UHD as a topic.

He declared that both X1 and PS4 would support UHD playback/discs.

I was interested and surprised by the big news, till I realised he didn't seem to have any hard facts.

He reasoned that 'they have to' and that all these big companies have 'known about UHD for years'.

I'd like to believe that and Tomorrowland would look sweet in native 4K, but I'm skeptically because this gen has been mostly about cost-control and profitability.

The struggle to reach 1080p/60fps in games would seem to indicate that price-points factored more than performance or features this time around.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with my PS4. But as they say, you get what you pay for.

My copy of Tomorrowland remains unopened (it's going to be a gift), is there really any big new on this front?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Frank@Chicago

I was at Target a few weeks ago (to pickup Tomorrowland) and the electronics clerk brought up UHD as a topic.

He declared that both X1 and PS4 would support UHD playback/discs.

I was interested and surprised by the big news, till I realised he didn't seem to have any hard facts.

He reasoned that 'they have to' and that all these big companies have 'known about UHD for years'.

I'd like to believe that and Tomorrowland would look sweet in native 4K, but I'm skeptically because this gen has been mostly about cost-control and profitability.

The struggle to reach 1080p/60fps in games would seem to indicate that price-points factored more than performance or features this time around.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with my PS4. But as they say, you get what you pay for.

My copy of Tomorrowland remains unopened (it's going to be a gift), is there really any big new on this front?

It really looks like there are issues with the current PS4 architecture that are keeping it from being able to play UHD Blu-ray discs. It doesn't look like Sony is going to do much about it.

Just get a standalone player when they show up next year.

[Coenskubrick]

Originally Posted by Frank@Chicago

I was at Target a few weeks ago (to pickup Tomorrowland) and the electronics clerk brought up UHD as a topic.

He declared that both X1 and PS4 would support UHD playback/discs.

I was interested and surprised by the big news, till I realised he didn't seem to have any hard facts.

He reasoned that 'they have to' and that all these big companies have 'known about UHD for years'.

Ugh, I know. A salesperson once swore to me, even when I directly asked him if they were actually in 4k resolution or just from 4k masters, that the optional blu-ray movies that came with a certain TV over a year ago WERE legitimate true 4K blu-rays.

I'm well-educated on the subject, I didn't fall for it of course, but I'm sure there are plenty of people that did.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Frank@Chicago

My copy of Tomorrowland remains unopened (it's going to be a gift), is there really any big new on this front?

Have that one in my Netflix disc queue, will be interesting to see how it looks (shot with Sony F55 and 65).

Have you viewed Cinderella (2015) on Blu? Shot on 35mm but it looks gorgeous, IMHO.

[Frank@Chicago]

Some have said Tomorrowland is one the best looking discs yet, because it was produced entirely in 4K.

If there was any realistic hope that (as a PS4 owner) I could just buy the disc in 4K later, I might have waited.

Buying new hardware is a major commitment for some, not to mention 4K disc prices.

So I bought the blu at Target using a pricematch because I wanted a good copy with a slipcover.

[SethRex]

I may buy a 4K player, but when its at a cheap price for me, as I'm on a 100 dollar spending budget each month.

[dvdmike]

Panasonic are saying in the new HCC they may wait for a one chip solution before making a player outside Japan

[SillySauce]

The compression is going to be bad. 2k DCP's that the theaters use are on 200gb harddrives. The 4k DCP's are much bigger. We need more space.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by SillySauce

The compression is going to be bad. 2k DCP's that the theaters use are on 200gb harddrives. The 4k DCP's are much bigger. We need more space.

They do not use HEVC