Black Panther 4K UHD (2018)

[Elbie]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

Get out of here with this nonsense.

Trent Opaloch is a great DOP, but he's been wasted by the Russo Brothers. Nothing he's filmed with them comes even remotely close to touching the work he did on District 9, Elysium, and Chappie.

Even Infinity War had several moments of that sterilized/dead look (mainly the NY sequences); because the Russo's aren't particularly inventive when it comes to composing images in their films.

Rachel Morrison has no control on how the CG-renderings looked in 'Black Panther'; but the live action stuff, especially in Busan, looked absolutely spectacular.

You call my opinion nonsense but talking about things that had nothing to do with what I was saying. I stick by my nonsense opinion that the cinematography was average.

[BobbyMcGee]

Gave my copy of Black Panther 4K a full watch through last night and this has to be one of the most reserved audio mixes I have ever heard for an action film.

I have a small living room and -15dB is typically more than loud enough for an action film with my home theater equipment. I am talking walls shaking. I increased the volume on Black Panther to -10dB to get the bass to come alive somewhat. That is, when it was present.

But, no matter what volume you put it at, there is no way to improve the lack of, or under use of the surround field. So many missed opportunities to really utilize the surround field to enhance what was taking place on screen.

Also, for whatever reason my copy of Black Panther 4K, or maybe my Oppo 203, refused to play the first 29 seconds of the film. No matter what I tried, it would skip ahead to the 30 second mark.

Well, I will wait for my 3-D copy of Black Panther to ship from Amazon U.K. and hopefully I will hear an improvement in the sound and no odd glitches.

Still a very good film IMO and I enjoyed watching it despite the disappointing audio.

[Elbie]

Originally Posted by BobbyMcGee

Also, for whatever reason my copy of Black Panther 4K, or maybe my Oppo 203, refused to play the first 29 seconds of the film. No matter what I tried, it would skip ahead to the 30 second mark.

When I first popped in the movie as soon as the actual film began, my screen turned pink. I ejected it, put it back in and the menu was pink. I ended up having to unplug the Oppo, use a can of air, and clean the disc. Then it worked perfect.

Dunno what happened there, but I just did whatever to get it working again.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by BobbyMcGee

Gave my copy of Black Panther 4K a full watch through last night and this has to be one of the most reserved audio mixes I have ever heard for an action film.

I have a small living room and -15dB is typically more than loud enough for an action film with my home theater equipment. I am talking walls shaking. I increased the volume on Black Panther to -10dB to get the bass to come alive somewhat. That is, when it was present.

But, no matter what volume you put it at, there is no way to improve the lack of, or under use of the surround field. So many missed opportunities to really utilize the surround field to enhance what was taking place on screen.

Also, for whatever reason my copy of Black Panther 4K, or maybe my Oppo 203, refused to play the first 29 seconds of the film. No matter what I tried, it would skip ahead to the 30 second mark.

Well, I will wait for my 3-D copy of Black Panther to ship from Amazon U.K. and hopefully I will hear an improvement in the sound and no odd glitches.

Still a very good film IMO and I enjoyed watching it despite the disappointing audio.

The audio has been tinkered with to subdue dynamic range, volume, and bass levels on all Disney tracks across multiple studio properties. You can't escape it. This started happening a couple years back as a means to make them playable on the lowliest speaker systems. They should have made a separate soundbar friendly mix and left the main track alone.

This is going to be their MO for the foreseeable future until enough people complain to the right execs.

[VonMagnum]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Disney should have two audio mixes on their 4K discs; one subdued, reserved, no dynamics, no jolts, no stridency, no irritation, no noise, no sudden impact, no bass below 30Hz, no scary kids stuff...that's the version for the masses of kids and families who buy movie tickets and Marvel 4K Blu-rays and regular Blu-rays...the one they use now with Black Panther, Thor: Ragnarok, Star Wars: The Last Jedi, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Cars 3, Coco, ...their latest releases since Ultron. ...For the billions of people who made them billions of dollars.

Yes, I think I mentioned that idea already.

I also don't think we can generalize about Disney just yet. Dead Men Tell No Tales sounded fine here and it was long after Age of Ultron and just before Cars 3 chronologically. Star Wars, The Force Awakens didn't sound screwed up either and it was also after Ultron. I honestly think it depends on who is doing a given mix at Disney. Someone there needs a damn supervisor that does something other than sit and eat donuts.

The good new is the Matrix 4K Ultra coming out on Tuesday has the original 5.1 mix (Dolby Digital) AND an Atmos/7.1 TrueHD mix as well that I've been told is nothing like these Disney releases. It's supposed to be pretty impressive.

I saw the Matrix 17 times at the theater (I've never seen another movie even CLOSE to that number of times) and about 14 of the times it was in DTS. I distinctly recall the part where the gun racks come flying into The Construct as flying into the back of the room bright and clear. No Dolby Digital version has done that at home to date. Sadly, there is no option here for a DTS MasterHD mix. DTS mixes often had vastly more LFE bass as well than the Dolby counterparts. I'll guess some of us will never know how it would sound at home or how a DTS:X mix might have turned out.

OK, that's not entirely true. Some of us have heard the Cinema DTS version at home. (and yes the surround mix is tilted towards greater rear separation than the Dolby soundtrack and somewhat higher bass, although it wasn't quite what I recall in theaters. I'm guessing the longer room with multiple surround arrays stretched the effect a bit more than it does at home. Either way, the Dolby mix is blander. I'll be curious to hear the Atmos/7.1 mix).

The other audio mix they could add is like they used to.
They can rename it, "Audiophile" mix, for the hardcore people who love one Hertz impact, super ultra high dynamics, jolts of thunder, scary rain of arrows and knives, dynamite sticks, nuclear reactor explosions, extreme high decibel velocity, and sheer ecstasy of the movie experience @ home on the highest ultimate level. ...For the few thousands of people who aren't afraid to live in the shadows of volcanic eruptions and nuclear disasters.

I believe one of the Hunger Games movies has a DTS X headphone mix included (Hunger Games Part I) as well as the Divergent 4K Ultra version an and a few others. Several of my BDs include a separate stereo track true to the original mix release (sadly Grease 4K wasn't one of them). I even have a couple of Blu-Rays that include both DTS and Dolby tracks on the same disc in English (and several more with PCM uncompressed tracks). So clearly, the studios can and have done alternate soundtracks with some releases. They simply aren't consistent about it.

And financially and advertisement wise they are adapting. 3D is dodo, DVD is just about dodo, 4K is in...fake and real, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos,

3D isn't "dodo" (i.e. extinct) anywhere but the US. I have Black Panther 3D is on pre-order as well as a new IMAX National Parks UHD/3D Combo coming out at the end of June and Infinity Wars is available for pre-order as well in 3D. Until 3D titles disappear in Europe, it's not extinct and all it would take is a 4K 3D upgrade in a year or two to bring it all back again and again (Hollywood LOVES selling you a movie and then selling it to you again a few years later).


I'd hardly call "4K BDs" as being "IN" yet either. How many Ultra BDs are being sold compared to regular BD or even the 3D releases that were released in the US? A lot of people skipped Blu-ray period. A LOT more are skipping UHD Blu-Ray. Many have 4K sets because that's all they sell at that size and price point. That doesn't mean they will pay Netflix or whomever more for 4K versions. Disc media are what is DODO. I don't like it, but that's just the way it is.

I've got more than enough bandwidth at home now to stream four simultaneous 4K movies unperturbed and for a bit more money a month, I can even get 1 Gigabit downloads. What would that stream? With current HEVC streaming compression levels, I'm thinking at least two 8K streams at a time. Japan has already decided to move to 8K. 4K is DEAD ON ARRIVAL there. I expect the US to follow within 5 years. All these 4K discs will be moot. They'll then sell you 8K versions all over again.

[buckeye1]

I've decided to return my copy tomorrow. I can't justify spending $34.99 for a movie that I may only watch once and with all the audio problems this has I'm going to pass on this.

[nugget2016]

i mean...the audio for these marvel films is bad, dont get me wrong. but its not bad enough to stop me enjoying the film. they should not charge us a premium and **** with the sound though, like seriously i'm paying £27 a film..($36)

[Elbie]

Originally Posted by drawn

On another note, has anyone reached out and complained to Disney and/or Marvel regarding the low quality audio yet?

A couples of us, me included have, and received an auto response email.

[Deric2014]

Originally Posted by buckeye1

I've decided to return my copy tomorrow. I can't justify spending $34.99 for a movie that I may only watch once and with all the audio problems this has I'm going to pass on this.

I'm with you on that.

[Dreamliner330]

The audio on this disc sucks. It sounds great if the volume is low. If I turn it up at all there is just no dynamic range. It sounds out of breath and awful, as if I have a crappy system or something.

I just finished watching Deadpool so Black Panther is quite the dramatic letdown.

I just wish somehow Disney could be made aware of this problem. Honestly if anyone at Disney involved with the mastering of these discs watched actually listened to them anywhere near reference volume with a system that cost more than $1,000 could easily hear the problem.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Deric2014

I'm with you on that.

I'm selling mine too

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

The audio on this disc sucks. It sounds great if the volume is low. If I turn it up at all there is just no dynamic range. It sounds out of breath and awful, as if I have a crappy system or something.

I just finished watching Deadpool so Black Panther is quite the dramatic letdown.

I just wish somehow Disney could be made aware of this problem. Honestly if anyone at Disney involved with the mastering of these discs watched actually listened to them anywhere near reference volume with a system that cost more than $1,000 could easily hear the problem.

To Disney, this is not a problem. It's a conscious choice to make their tracks friendly to lesser audio systems.

[bbeck]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

To Disney, this is not a problem. It's a conscious choice to make their tracks friendly to lesser audio systems.

You keep saying this. I know it sounds convenient as a conspiracy theory, but do you have someone from Disney on record saying this is true?

Where are the complaints about the audio on Doctor Strange?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by bbeck

You keep saying this. I know it sounds convenient as a conspiracy theory, but do you have someone from Disney on record saying this is true?

Where are the complaints about the audio on Doctor Strange?

It's been discussed ad nauseam. It's also talked about on AVS Forum. Insiders believe it's so that the tracks sound good on a variety of systems, including sound bars and TV speakers instead of doing a separate optimized track as a bonus on the disc. One size does not fit all and something that is gentle for a sound bar will sound horrible on a good, capable theater system that can handle the punishment of a greater dynamic range.

They're going for the lowest common denominator... the Joe Blow who complains about having to ride the volume knob while listening through the TV's tin cans. The trouble with that is Joe Blow has no idea what 7.1 or even Dolby Atmos is, and premium tracks get ruined as a result.

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

To Disney, this is not a problem. It's a conscious choice to make their tracks friendly to lesser audio systems.

I doubt it. If it was true they could just offer the “night listening” track many others used to do. Home theaters are more prevalent now than ever before. Purposly gimping the audio is preposterous.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

I doubt it. If it was true they could just offer the “night listening” track many others used to do. Home theaters are more prevalent now than ever before. Purposly gimping the audio is preposterous.

Actually, it's not. Studios have actually been discussing the fact fancy theater system ownership is a tiny fraction of the home video market and they need to think about soundbars and other more popular forms of reproduction. Listen to some of the AVS Forum webcasts when Scott W. is interviewing sound mixers at studio home divisions. It's brought up a lot.

Disney is now doing it rather than just talking about it.

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Actually, it's not. Studios have actually been discussing the fact fancy theater system ownership is a tiny fraction of the home video market and they need to think about soundbars and other more popular forms of reproduction. Listen to some of the AVS Forum webcasts when Scott W. is interviewing sound mixers at studio home divisions. It's brought up a lot.

Disney is now doing it rather than just talking about it.

Easy to offer both. Even easier (and better) to build the compression nonsense into the soundbar.

Audio should be mastered for maximum quality. The DSP in the system should adjust for the speakers. This is the correct way to do it.

This ensures maximum quality source and also ensures best quality on all systems as the built in DSP can be preprogrammed for the capabilities of the soundbar, etc. Mastering content for a certain speaker is idiotic.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

Easy to offer both. Even easier (and better) to build the compression nonsense into the soundbar.

Audio should be mastered for maximum quality. The DSP in the system should adjust for the speakers. This is the correct way to do it.

This ensures maximum quality source and also ensures best quality on all systems as the built in DSP can be preprogrammed for the capabilities of the soundbar, etc. Mastering content for a certain speaker is idiotic.

I agree totally. But time is money is more money. Yadda, yadda. The same excuses at these mostly hollowed out home video departments. That's probably why Disney is currently only doing streaming/ATSC 3.0 friendly fixed Atmos print-outs and not full "gold standard" Atmos with 3D objects and full scalabilty to a small or large system much like the cinema version. They could do two versions, but then why spend the... money?

[Deric2014]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

I'm selling mine too

It's a shame after all these years Disney hasn't done anything to fix the issues with the sound and I'm scared for Avengers Infinity War since it might have crappy audio when it comes out on 4K.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Deric2014

It's a shame after all these years Disney hasn't done anything to fix the issues with the sound and I'm scared for Avengers Infinity War since it might have crappy audio when it comes out on 4K.

We have to complain about their practices... loudly.