Black Panther 4K UHD (2018)

[Elbie]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Why would Disney change anything? The movies are popular enough to sell no matter what and the review sites aren't being critical.

Well, as a paying customer, I have the right to voice my displeasure, whether they change it or not.

[bbeck]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

It's been discussed ad nauseam. It's also talked about on AVS Forum. Insiders believe it's so that the tracks sound good on a variety of systems, including sound bars and TV speakers instead of doing a separate optimized track as a bonus on the disc. One size does not fit all and something that is gentle for a sound bar will sound horrible on a good, capable theater system that can handle the punishment of a greater dynamic range.

They're going for the lowest common denominator... the Joe Blow who complains about having to ride the volume knob while listening through the TV's tin cans. The trouble with that is Joe Blow has no idea what 7.1 or even Dolby Atmos is, and premium tracks get ruined as a result.

And yet, the Atmos track for Black Panther has LFE extension down to 16Hz. No one is squashing bass and dynamics across the board to appeal to "the unwashed masses," however some of the people on this forum and AVS wish to call them.

As I said in an earlier post, the music (esp. the hip-hop beats) sounds great. That may be a main contributor to the LFE extension. What I'm hearing (or not hearing, as the case may be) is lack of bass in the sound effects like gunfire, flying ships, or revving/crashing vehicles. The final battle at the train station sounds terrific. The mix is a frustrating combination of very good and disappointing.

Maybe rather than give in to a reductionist mindset that labels everything as either awesome or terrible, we actually try to quantify what is good and what is not?

All I'm saying is I still see no evidence that some corporate honcho at Disney is applying an across-the-board "gimp switch" to ruin the audio for everyone with expensive speaker setups. These have every appearance of mixing decisions by the people at Marvel who made the movie. And for that there has to be a more direct way of sending in your feedback than contacting Disney marketing.

The low master volume is probably a Disney thing -- we'll see how the Atmos remix of The Incredibles compares to the excellent TrueHD 5.1 on the current BD. If it sounds at least as good as the former, save for a few extra upward ticks on the volume dial, that'll probably be about as good a confirmation of the practice as we'll get. (It will also be interesting to see if Disney re-authors the BD and lowers the master volume of the TrueHD track.)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BigBlue10989

Not many of us have a luxury to have dedicated spaces to watch movies. I think it's a stretch to say less dynamic range is "for kids" and speaks to the arrogance and entitlement of this community. Quite frankly, It can be pretty freaking annoying for audio to nearly inaudible and then have deafening action in the next scene.

You'll note that I did actually agree with you on certain points earlier in the thread, and you'll also note that I was responding directly to the comment above mine which made it quite plain that these neutered sound mixes were much kinder to their kiddies' ears, hence me saying that in quotation marks and supplying a glib comment afterwards.

The point still remains: Disney are LITERALLY putting two different English audio encodes on these discs so why on Earth can't one be the "optimised for TVs" version and the other be the full-fat version? Lionsgate do exactly this, providing a "late night" 2.0 mix as well as the main lossless mix. Get outraged at this "entitlement" all you want but when Disney are already going to the trouble of providing two separate mixes it bakes my noodle that they've got a solution to please EVERYONE right there and they steadfastly refuse to employ it.

[bradnoyes]

I'd just like to step in and say the only thing I like about the flattened Disney mixes is that I can easily watch them when my kid is sleeping without fear of waking him up, so yeah, it is very much for the kiddies in a literal sense. On the rare occasion that I get to watch a UHD with my system at full blast I will pretty much never watch a Disney disc because it's a completely wasted opportunity to experience the best of what my system can offer.

[elwaylite]

I run a pretty powerful 2.2 system, and Thor Ragnarok was another with complaints, and it rocked on my setup. So whatever Disney is doing is not meshing well with some setups.

[Geoff D]

Sure, because a stereo fold-down is one of the things that these mixes were likely neutered to facilitate. We've got the answer, folks! Just watch them in stereo and we'll be fine.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Sure, because a stereo fold-down is one of the things that these mixes were likely neutered to facilitate.

So, all of the dynamic compression is in the surrounds and center channel?

[ROSS.T.G.]

Most of if not all AVR’s have a midnight mode. Neutered mixes are no excuse.

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

So, all of the dynamic compression is in the surrounds and center channel?

Set to go to a sound bar or tv speakers Id guess.

So with the 2.2 system I run, I don't notice a difference from a proper 5.1 or 7.1 track, vs these "problematic" Disney tracks.

I used to run a 3.2 system, and the 2.2 actually sounds better.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

So, all of the dynamic compression is in the surrounds and center channel?

I'm just saying that a reduction in dynamic range in general on a multichannel mix makes for a cleaner downmix, and that these "kid friendly" mixes are directly aimed at those watching thru TV speakers or soundbars (not even the kind of higher end bars that folks in here be rocking).

[bbeck]

Pretty sure a guy with dual Rythmik subs would notice when a soundtrack has neutered bass.

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

Most of if not all AVR’s have a midnight mode. Neutered mixes are no excuse.

That is the thing though, the complaints I heard from Ragnarock like low bass, mine was rumbling. There is more going on here.

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by bbeck

Pretty sure a guy with dual Rythmik subs would notice when a soundtrack has neutered bass.

It may just be sheer luck that whatever they are doing mixes down in 2 channel with subs OK. Its like in Thor, when they would play Immigrant Song, I loved it.

And yeah, I dont have dual FV15HP's because I like quiet bass

The main reason I don't have 5.2 is because 3 different calibrators have looked at my room, and the rears just don't work. And I refuse to soundbar...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bbeck

Pretty sure a guy with dual Rythmik subs would notice when a soundtrack has neutered bass.

Indeed. But why aren't people with multichannel setups of similar calibre getting the same results? Disney are definitely doing something to these mixes and I don't think it's unreasonable that a 7.1 or Atmos enabled setup - which on the surface would appear to the main mixing intent, no? - would be expected to give similar results as elway's system.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

It may just be sheer luck that whatever they are doing mixes down in 2 channel with subs OK. Its like in Thor, when they would play Immigrant Song, I loved it.

And yeah, I dont have dual FV15HP's because I like quiet bass

The main reason I don't have 5.2 is because 3 different calibrators have looked at my room, and the rears just don't work. And I refuse to soundbar...

El, when you go back to the main menu on Thor what does the menu music sound like to you? Is it WAY louder and more dynamic than the main movie or is similar?

[elwaylite]

Ill need to check when I get home. I have a proper SPL meter too, I will do some testing.

Note sure on good scenes though. I know the final battle on the bridge was pretty good.

[Dirk504]

I usually listen to movies at 65. I had to crank BP up to 77 and it still didn't sound as dynamic as something like John Wick or Hacksaw Ridge in Atmos.

[elwaylite]

On my 3060, 7.1 is usually -5.0, and 5.1 is anywhere between -8.0 and -10.0 normally. I have not noticed this any different on discs, I just know I have to cut the 7.1 mixes up louder, was the same on my Marantz too.

I listen loud.

[VonMagnum]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Guardians 2 sounds AWESOME? That's news to me. It may not be AS neutered as Age of Ultron but there's still something missing, as with every other Disney disc (be it Star Wars or Marvel) I've heard since then.

The 3D version sounded great here as far as I can remember. I can test it again later tonight, but I remember being impressed at the time.

Disney are taking the piss by putting an Atmos and DD+ track on the same bloody disc though, there's no reason why the DD+ couldn't be the "kiddie friendly" mix (might as well dub out any swears while they're at it, "For gosh sakes watch your language!") with the Atmos as the balls-out version with the proper dynamic range.

I'm still convinced most of you have no idea what dynamic range means beause you keep demanding LOUDER and LOUDER is the OPPOSITE of dynamic. Dynamic means QUIET average levels that only get really loud in certain spots. If the average level is loud, it's LOW dynamic range. Everyone whining like babies on here wants LOUDER and that's just the opposite.

The most dynamic song typically displayed is a good recording of the 1812 overture. You have to turn the volume up so it sounds good. And then when the cannons go off your ears should just about EXPLODE with DEAFNESS. THAT is dynamic range. You do not WANT high dynamic range of that level in a movie. You will go deaf very quickly at certain levels and/or be complaining you can't hear what they're saying the rest of the movie. AVERAGE Level has NOTHING to do with dynamic range.

[Geoff D]

OKAY then WE'LL keep GETTING it WRONG.