Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by SCEIPS

Whathifi say: It’s not perfect, but this gorgeous premium Sony TV dazzles with 4K pictures
http://www.whathifi.com/sony/kd-65zd...teCJiVWsO1e.99

I would disregard this review.

It's being slammed hard on avs and rightfully so.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

2 or 3 people taking delivery this week....

I’m informed that 2 of the 3 owners over there are having a tough time in their Owner’s thread by the non-owners, with one (actually the OP of the thread) threatening now to leave ….. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post46153593

makes me wonder, I dare ask, but whatever happened to the Vizio R owner in the Vizio R Owner’s Thread that poster alluded to?....they drove him to drink or the services of a Therapist?

[mutelight]

I have been watching for news (AVSForums mainly) on this set very closely and cannot wait to see professional reviews. Currently targeting the 75" to make the jump into HDR.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by mutelight

I have been watching for news (AVSForums mainly) on this set very closely and cannot wait to see professional reviews. Currently targeting the 75" to make the jump into HDR.

Best HDR set on the market. The combination of brightness and near perfect blacks is incredible.

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Best HDR set on the market. The combination of brightness and near perfect blacks is incredible.

I truly hope so!

I have been watching the threads on AVS regularly and am looking forward to seeing one in person.

My current set isn't a slouch but I want a better understanding of the HDR gaming and standard gaming performance because while I am primarily a PC gamer, I do play my consoles a bit in the main room.

Also being able to find it 1-2K cheaper would ease my mind a bit. Certainly not looking forward to trying to sell my current set locally!

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’m informed that 2 of the 3 owners over there are having a tough time in their Owner’s thread by the non-owners, with one (actually the OP of the thread) threatening now to leave ….. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post46153593

makes me wonder, I dare ask, but whatever happened to the Vizio R owner in the Vizio R Owner’s Thread that poster alluded to?....they drove him to drink or the services of a Therapist?

The issue wasnt that the owner was pushed away. The issue came when everyone was guessing whether or not the vizio R would be updated to HDR10/ HDMI 2.0a. the problem was that the owner had a misunderstanding of what HDMI 2.0a actually was, and refused to listen to those of us trying to explain it to him. the Vizio R manual had some tricky lingo about the hdmi ports, and he was being very fiesty. He ended up misreading an article online and "thought he was right all along", and wrote a VERY nasty post attacking everyone and was profanity laced with a ton of F-bombs telling everybody off. He ended up getting suspended for a couple weeks. His Vizio ended up having yellow staining on the panel and exchanged 3 times. Vizio refused to do any more swaps and told him that his next swap would also have the yellow staining so they gave him the option of a buy back. in the end he ended up with a Sony 940C instead. we believe the yellow staining was due to an issue with the quantum dot film. He was very misinformed and was telling everybody that the tv had HDR10 from the start (but still doesnt have HDR10 to this day)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mutelight

I have been watching for news (AVSForums mainly) on this set very closely and cannot wait to see professional reviews. Currently targeting the 75" to make the jump into HDR.

I'm waiting on AVF and HDTVtest, yep. Ain't no jumping in straightaway for Geoff anyway, I want to find out what the longer term user experiences are so I'll be keeping an eye on the AVF thread too.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

The issue wasnt that the owner was pushed away. The issue came when everyone was guessing whether or not the vizio R would be updated to HDR10/ HDMI 2.0a. the problem was that the owner had a misunderstanding of what HDMI 2.0a actually was, and refused to listen to those of us trying to explain it to him. the Vizio R manual had some tricky lingo about the hdmi ports, and he was being very fiesty. He ended up misreading an article online and "thought he was right all along", and wrote a VERY nasty post attacking everyone and was profanity laced with a ton of F-bombs telling everybody off. He ended up getting suspended for a couple weeks. His Vizio ended up having yellow staining on the panel and exchanged 3 times. Vizio refused to do any more swaps and told him that his next swap would also have the yellow staining so they gave him the option of a buy back. in the end he ended up with a Sony 940C instead. we believe the yellow staining was due to an issue with the quantum dot film. He was very misinformed and was telling everybody that the tv had HDR10 from the start (but still doesnt have HDR10 to this day)

So, lots of Vizio R owner drama over there too.

Anyway, back to the Z9D Owners thread. It’s fine to inform Larry that he is welcome to participate in this Blu-ray.com thread where he would be treated with the respect he deserves.

Also, I hope they don’t drive Vince Kompany out either. On that note, if you get the opportunity, inform him that we’ve got a Prem League thread over here at Blu-ray.com -> https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=201003 and we’d enjoy hearing the thoughts of more Man City supporters.

[Jbug]

I wish they had with to passive 3D for the Z models instead of active. Passive is the way to go for 3D, especially for eliminating or reducing ghosting.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Sorry to just hear that with regards to your last shootout in NYC, you and/or your methodology were not treated very well at all by some members on another audio video forum. I heard things got quite out of hand.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

So, lots of Vizio R owner drama over there too.

I spend so little time on A/V forums anymore, I had no idea so much drama was happening.

Its difficult for someone to have an objective opinion on something once they have spent their hard earned money on it. No one wants to admit that they made a sub optimal decision.

With that said, the ZD9 looks promising, so much so that I plan to buy one. Currently my favorite consumer HDR displays are the Sony 940C and the LG G6. While I have not seen all of the HDR displays, I have been lucky enough to see many of them. I would love to own an X300, its just too small.

I do wish the ZD9 had support for Dolby Vision.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

By using the Z9D tv I wonder if Joe will have an epiphany with regards to a change in thinking as to the value of HDR as compared to SDR.

I was sharing a split screen SDR / HDR frame that I had put together. They felt that I was making the SDR side look worse on purpose and that it should have been brighter than the HDR side. Long story short, they were surprised that SDR would be limited to 100 nits when modern displays can easily play them back much brighter. They are also a fan of Joe's idea of mastering SDR at 300 nits. smh

Here is the pic in in question. Mind you this is an iPhone pic of an LG G6. The left half is SDR 709 inside of HDR 2020. The right half is HDR 1000 nit 2020. It was a 16-bit DPX playing back in da Vinci Resolve. Output via BMD Ultrastudio 4K 12G HD-SDI into Teranex Mini and 10-bit HDMI output into HDfury and then into LG. The HDfury was to set the HDR metadata.


The original 16-bit DPX can be found on my dropbox if you wish to view it yourself. I can also provide the full frame files if anyone is interested. When you view it on an HDR display, HDR adds depth to the image.

I plan to encode it as HEVC so people can play it on their display. I want to animate it so it does a dissolve from SDR 709 -> SDR 2020 -> HDR 500 nits -> HDR 1000 nits -> HDR butteryfly.

I am hoping to update my tools this weekend so I can also paint the pixels >709 one color and >p3 another color so you can visually see which pixels are 709, P3 and 2020.

This is not the best example clip. I had over exposed on purpose so that I could see how well HDR could maintain the blue sky instead of going white. The source pixel values in that area are > 2.0 in an EXR.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

...
With that said, the ZD9 looks promising, so much so that I plan to buy one. Currently my favorite consumer HDR displays are the Sony 940C and the LG G6. While I have not seen all of the HDR displays, I have been lucky enough to see many of them. I would love to own an X300, its just too small.

I do wish the ZD9 had support for Dolby Vision.

What is your preference between ZD9 and G6, leaving out Dolby Vision?

I remember your OLED / FALD comment:
"There is no arguing that OLED has great black levels, but it is severely limited by light output."
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/138-av...l#post36031666

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

...
I would love to own an X300, its just too small.

Do you think every HDR TV shootout should include a reference mastering display?

Thanks!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I...

Stacey's back

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

...mastering SDR at 300 nits. smh

I had to goggle what you mean by that ^ 'smh'. We’ve got more emoticons here -> https://forum.blu-ray.com/misc.php?d...=vB_Editor_001
to make it easier on people like me . Please check if there’s an equivalent 'smh' one there, albeit with different labeling.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I do wish the ZD9 had support for Dolby Vision.

Videophiles can debate (from what they can find online) the merits of static vs. different applications of dynamic metadata vs. Dolby Vision on low vs. high end TVs, etc. until the cows come home, but in the end, the bean counters rule (for better or worse…. http://nypost.com/2016/07/20/sony-za...results-in-us/ ) and consideration will be given to the fact that DV carries a lot of selling value to the general buying public just by virtue of the strength of its brand name…..and on the other side of the $$ negotiation fence, Dolby (Vision) desires not to remain niche forever.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by DanBa

What is your preference between ZD9 and G6, leaving out Dolby Vision?

Once I get a ZD9 and evaluate it, then I can answer your question.

I would really like to take an in-depth look at the Sony PVM based on the same LG panel.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

consideration will be given to the fact that DV carries a lot of selling value to the general buying public just by virtue of the strength of its brand name…..

What I really want is a standard for tone/gamut mapping. As you pointed out, by defining ST2084, we can now go to and from linear light with confidence. A tone mapping standard would offer similar confidence that content would look the same on various displays and their capabilities. Of course looking the same is not something every display manufacturer dreams of.

Amazon has a nice demo reel. They were playing it in a loop in their booth at NAB. They have some aerial footage over California in their demo reel that was shot on the Alexa 65. One shot is over the Santa Monica pier and Another is elsewhere over water. The clouds seem to be near 1000 nits. Pretty much on every sub 1000 nit display, there is some level of clipping in the clouds. The tone mappers are not doing a very good job on these two shots. On the Sony 940C, and Atomos Shogun Flame, the clouds look great on those two shots. Both of these displays are >1000 nits and so no tone mapping is used.

If we had 1. better tone mapping and 2. the same tone mapping used on all displays, then that clip would look good everywhere. Just my opinion of course.

On the subject of that demo reel. I think they did a wonderful job showing SDR and HDR. Each shot starts off in SDR. In several cases it pauses and does a dissolve to HDR and then continues on. After the shot finishes, it goes to a view with both the SDR and HDR inset and side-by-side so you can see both at the same time. They also provide the nit values and camera information for each shot.

By starting off with the SDR version first, you get to see SDR at its best. Then the dissolve to HDR really shows off HDR. You never feel like they tried to make SDR look bad.

My favorite shot in the reel is of the Seattle skyline just after sunset. It was shot from Kerry Park in Seattle. There is another shot in downtown Seattle, by the Amazon Instant Video building. Lots of blue LED lights on the trees since this was shot near Christmas. Those blue LEDs shine, no pun intended, in HDR.

The demo reel is vary natural. Not over-the-top gaudy HDR. The Olympics demo reel, on the Comcast app, is the very definition of over-the-top gaudy in my opinion!

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Please check if there’s an equivalent 'smh' one there, albeit with different labeling.

This would probably work best:

[Stacey Spears]

Just to add to the image I had posted earlier. Here is a histrogram, wave form monitor and even the pixel values of one pixel on screen.

SDR 100 nits 2020


HDR 500 nits 2020


HDR 1000 nits 2020


Here are the source frames as 16-bit DPX files.

The SDR have been mapped into HDR so they look like SDR when in HDR mode.

1. SDR 709
2. SDR 2020
3. HDR 500 nits 2020
4. HDR 1000 nits 2020
5. SDR 709 and HDR 1000 2020 in butterfly
6. The original R3D source frame. This way you can do your own SDR and HDR version if you don't trust 1-5. Log3G10 and REDWideGamutRGB were used as the starting point to create 1-5.

The above screen shots were taken using Scratch Play. http://www.assimilateinc.com/products/scratch-play/ Scratch Play is a great media viewer. It is a free version of their professional app. If you are unfamiliar with Scratch, you can read more about it.

Also planning to animate the still frame and encode as HEVC. There will be two versions. One that does a dissolve from SDR to HDR and another that does a wipe. Looking for the best way to demonstrate SDR vs. HDR. Basically I will be stealing the presentation idea from the Amazon demo reel I described earlier. To be fair, I am speaking the company that graded the Amazon reel, they are just presently booked.

This content is mine and you are welcome to do with it what you please. I will be creating some other clips as well as soon as I receive the ZD9 and can test the content. I will then share on here.

One of the HEVC clips is a starfield. I got the idea from the opening of Pacific Rim. Its been good clip to test FALD vs. Edge lit vs. OLED. There are four levels of stars. From very few stars to massive amounts of stars. On part 1, the LG OLED looks like a beautiful starfield while on the JS9500, you would not even know there was a starfield.

If others have ideas on what they would like to test the ZD9, or other, HDR displays, please describe it and I will try and create it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

...Atomos Shogun Flame,

I’m a fan

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

...a starfield. I got the idea from the opening of Pacific Rim. Its been good clip to test FALD vs. Edge lit vs. OLED

Liking the use of star fields to prove a point for a long time
Keep the pics and links coming Stacey, good stuff.