Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR - Page 10 - Blu-ray Forum

Stacey Spears · 09-06-2016, 11:52 PM

As promised, some raw measurements of the 65" Z9D. Since I am not posting data from other displays, you don't have any real context. These are post calibration results.

The Z9D does not appear to use the HDR metadata to adjust its tone / gamut mapping. Some displays do and some do not.

Grayscale

ColorChecker

Saturation Sweeps (BT.2020)

Saturation Sweeps (P3 inside of BT.2020)

Gamut Coverage - P3

Gamut Coverage - BT.2020

Spectrum

Black Level

Luminance vs. Area - The Z9D is number 11.

ray0414 · 09-07-2016, 12:06 AM

Great stuff Stacey. Couple quick questions..

1. Which color rating applies to uhd blu rays, the XY or the UV?

2. Have you been able to figure out how to count the leds? Does a regular zone counter work?

bruceames · 09-07-2016, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I did look at BvS on HDR clipping though. It has some good shots in it for that, much like Pan.

Would like to see a few pics of those shots if you get a chance and are so inclined to post them.

Stacey Spears · 09-07-2016, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray0414

1. Which color rating applies to uhd blu rays, the XY or the UV?

Both. xy is from the 1931 color matching function and a lot of people like it because they are "comfortable" with it. Sadly, it is not perceptually uniform. I prefer u'v' myself, which is from the 1976 color matching function. What you see visually on the CIE diagram is closer to what we actually see. e.g. Green can look way off on the 1931, but you visually can't tell the difference. We include both in CalMAN because some like 1931 and others, such as myself, prefer 1976.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray0414

2. Have you been able to figure out how to count the leds? Does a regular zone counter work?

Have not even looked at that aspect yet. Subjectively it looks good off axis with very little blooming. I use one of the HDR blacksmith clips, which was shot using a pair of Arri Alexa's in a 3D mirror rig. I don't have a link to the clip on me. The sparks look good off axis. That is a subjective analysis though.

Can you point me to a regular zone counter?

Stacey Spears · 09-07-2016, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

Would like to see a few pics of those shots if you get a chance and are so inclined to post them.

A chapter / time code reference or actual pics? At best, it would be an iPhone pic, which would not tell you much.

I can get the chapter / time when I am back in the office tomorrow.

ray0414 · 09-07-2016, 12:25 AM

Zone counter, go to the built in youtube app and just search for " AVS Zone Counter". If the leds are too small, im not sure how accurate it will be. Some people though are able to count around 600. 20x30?

Stacey Spears · 09-07-2016, 12:36 AM

Found it, thank you. That must be real fun to do.

Stacey Spears · 09-07-2016, 12:38 AM

One of the things to point out in the UHDA P3 gamut chart above is that red has been moved. 100% P3 red does not fit inside of 2020. It ends up producing a negative blue value. They moved it so that it would fit correctly.

Stacey Spears · 09-07-2016, 12:41 AM

Someone commented earlier about the Z9D appearing twice as bright as another display. I think it is ~400 nits brighter than the 940C in a 10% window. Number 9 in the graph above is the 940C.

bruceames · 09-07-2016, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

A chapter / time code reference or actual pics? At best, it would be an iPhone pic, which would not tell you much.

I can get the chapter / time when I am back in the office tomorrow.

A good iPhone pic with the display mode on (so to see the time code) would be just fine. Seems to work OK for showing scenes with clipping.

Otherwise just the time in the movie where you noticed it will work so I can see for myself on my 940C. But it's surprising that you could still see clipping with 1700 nits at your disposal.

bruceames · 09-07-2016, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Someone commented earlier about the Z9D appearing twice as bright as another display. I think it is ~400 nits brighter than the 940C in a 10% window. Number 9 in the graph above is the 940C.

Wow, didn't know it could do close to 800 nits full screen (not to mention 1360 nits in a 10% window). That's pretty impressive.

Stacey Spears · 09-07-2016, 01:29 AM

I updated my original post to include black level, which is 0.003797 nits. For reference, LG G6 is 0.00072 nits, Samsung JS9500 is 0.01355 nits and Panasonic DX800 is 0.21083 nits. We used a Klein K80 to measure the displays.

One thing not in the graph above is sub 1% area. We made an 80x80 pixel (at UHD resolution) to measure sub 1%. We basically made a window pattern that is the size of the Klein K80. We would go smaller if we could get reliable numbers. The Z9D does 750 nits at that size. For reference, the LG G6 does 589 nits, Samsung JS9500 does 812 nits and Panasonic DX800 does 164 nits.

ray0414 · 09-07-2016, 01:57 AM

^^^Stacey I think you mixed up peak nits of the G6 and panasonic. The G6 shouldn't be 589 full screen but closer to 170 right?

Also, are u sure you didn't list the Z9D in FL and the js9500 in nits? That's a giant difference with the JS9500!

Stacey Spears · 09-07-2016, 02:21 AM

Those numbers are for the 80x80 pixel window, not full screen. I edited the post so the numbers are on the same line as the comment about 80x80 pixel, to remove confusion.

ray0414 · 09-07-2016, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Those numbers are for the 80x80 pixel window, not full screen. I edited the post so the numbers are on the same line as the comment about 80x80 pixel, to remove confusion.

Alright thanks. Is the black level number with dimming turned on or turned off.

Stacey Spears · 09-07-2016, 03:20 AM

Yes, local dimming was enabled. The measurements are all based on calibrated settings, which includes the FALD settings one would watch it at. The Panasonic is edge lit.

ray0414 · 09-07-2016, 04:55 AM

FlatpanelsHD is currently reviewing their unit.

They say they have found the LEDs to be 35x18, which comes to 630 LEDs/zones.

PaulGo · 09-07-2016, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Someone commented earlier about the Z9D appearing twice as bright as another display. I think it is ~400 nits brighter than the 940C in a 10% window. Number 9 in the graph above is the 940C.

I mentioned I saw the 65" Z9D next to the 75" 940D in a bright Best Buy store and the Z9D appeared twice as bright as the 940D displaying the Sony Las Vegas loop.

ray0414 · 09-07-2016, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulGo

I mentioned I saw the 65" Z9D next to the 75" 940D in a bright Best Buy store and the Z9D appeared twice as bright as the 940D displaying the Sony Las Vegas loop.

Yes.

Sony dumbed down the 940d from what the 940c was. The 940d is only around 750nits peak after D65 calibration.

Stacey Spears · 09-07-2016, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray0414

Sony dumbed down the 940d from what the 940c was. The 940d is only around 750nits peak after D65 calibration.

Really? Yikes! If that is the case, then at least twice as bright at D65.

09-06-2016, 11:52 PM	#181
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	As promised, some raw measurements of the 65" Z9D. Since I am not posting data from other displays, you don't have any real context. These are post calibration results. The Z9D does not appear to use the HDR metadata to adjust its tone / gamut mapping. Some displays do and some do not. Grayscale ColorChecker Saturation Sweeps (BT.2020) Saturation Sweeps (P3 inside of BT.2020) Gamut Coverage - P3 Gamut Coverage - BT.2020 Spectrum Black Level Luminance vs. Area - The Z9D is number 11. Last edited by Stacey Spears; 09-07-2016 at 01:24 AM.

09-07-2016, 01:29 AM	#192
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	I updated my original post to include black level, which is 0.003797 nits. For reference, LG G6 is 0.00072 nits, Samsung JS9500 is 0.01355 nits and Panasonic DX800 is 0.21083 nits. We used a Klein K80 to measure the displays. One thing not in the graph above is sub 1% area. We made an 80x80 pixel (at UHD resolution) to measure sub 1%. We basically made a window pattern that is the size of the Klein K80. We would go smaller if we could get reliable numbers. The Z9D does 750 nits at that size. For reference, the LG G6 does 589 nits, Samsung JS9500 does 812 nits and Panasonic DX800 does 164 nits. Last edited by Stacey Spears; 09-07-2016 at 02:21 AM.

09-07-2016, 02:21 AM	#194
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	Those numbers are for the 80x80 pixel window, not full screen. I edited the post so the numbers are on the same line as the comment about 80x80 pixel, to remove confusion. Last edited by Stacey Spears; 09-07-2016 at 02:29 AM.

09-07-2016, 12:06 AM	#182
ray0414 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Oct 2015 Location:Michigan, USA, 35yo Trading Score:9	Great stuff Stacey. Couple quick questions.. 1. Which color rating applies to uhd blu rays, the XY or the UV? 2. Have you been able to figure out how to count the leds? Does a regular zone counter work?

09-07-2016, 12:25 AM	#186
ray0414 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Oct 2015 Location:Michigan, USA, 35yo Trading Score:9	Zone counter, go to the built in youtube app and just search for " AVS Zone Counter". If the leds are too small, im not sure how accurate it will be. Some people though are able to count around 600. 20x30?

09-07-2016, 12:36 AM	#187
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	Found it, thank you. That must be real fun to do.

09-07-2016, 12:38 AM	#188
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	One of the things to point out in the UHDA P3 gamut chart above is that red has been moved. 100% P3 red does not fit inside of 2020. It ends up producing a negative blue value. They moved it so that it would fit correctly.

09-07-2016, 12:41 AM	#189
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	Someone commented earlier about the Z9D appearing twice as bright as another display. I think it is ~400 nits brighter than the 940C in a 10% window. Number 9 in the graph above is the 940C.

09-07-2016, 01:57 AM	#193
ray0414 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Oct 2015 Location:Michigan, USA, 35yo Trading Score:9	^^^Stacey I think you mixed up peak nits of the G6 and panasonic. The G6 shouldn't be 589 full screen but closer to 170 right? Also, are u sure you didn't list the Z9D in FL and the js9500 in nits? That's a giant difference with the JS9500!

09-07-2016, 03:20 AM	#196
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	Yes, local dimming was enabled. The measurements are all based on calibrated settings, which includes the FALD settings one would watch it at. The Panasonic is edge lit.

09-07-2016, 04:55 AM	#197
ray0414 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Oct 2015 Location:Michigan, USA, 35yo Trading Score:9	FlatpanelsHD is currently reviewing their unit. They say they have found the LEDs to be 35x18, which comes to 630 LEDs/zones.

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