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Old 09-02-2016, 04:16 AM   #161
Stacey Spears Stacey Spears is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
as I think you are in the unique position to watch the content simultaneously almost side-by-side whereas others might have to rely upon their memories.
You need to be careful with HDR and side-by-side. The brighter image will skew the results. e.g. We had BvS playing on a UHD BD player feeding the Sony 940C and Samsung JS9500. We had to double check and verify the Samsung was in HDR mode because it looked like SDR relative to the 940C.
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Old 09-02-2016, 05:37 AM   #162
ray0414 ray0414 is offline
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Good Stuff Stacey!!
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Old 09-02-2016, 09:00 AM   #163
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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"none more black", eh? It's got the approval of Tap, that's good enough for me!

Cheers stacey, look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on this beast of a TV. Incidentally, I thought I heard that Sony got rid of the gradient smoothing feature on their later Android sets so I'm pleased to see that it's back (or still there). It's not that I use it for regular viewing but some discs really are encoded so poorly for banding these days (Lionsgate Blus in particular, though it's creeping into the majors as well) that it's a very handy feature to have.
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Old 09-02-2016, 01:38 PM   #164
Gillietalls Gillietalls is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey Spears View Post
You need to be careful with HDR and side-by-side. The brighter image will skew the results. e.g. We had BvS playing on a UHD BD player feeding the Sony 940C and Samsung JS9500. We had to double check and verify the Samsung was in HDR mode because it looked like SDR relative to the 940C.
Dang! Maybe I need to be looking for a 940C... Thanks Mr. Spears for the updates.
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Old 09-02-2016, 08:59 PM   #165
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey Spears View Post
You need to be careful with HDR and side-by-side. The brighter image will skew the results. e.g. We had BvS playing on a UHD BD player feeding the Sony 940C and Samsung JS9500. We had to double check and verify the Samsung was in HDR mode because it looked like SDR relative to the 940C.
Stacey, not sure if you’re supplementing my response with the HDR aspect as additional info or you didn’t follow the discourse at the bottom of the last page. In case of the later, I was referring to having Robert compare a football game or soccer match, etc. broadcast in SDR HD thru a content provider like Comcast, Charter Communications, etc. simultaneously side by side viewing on a Sony Z9D vs. flagship LG oled.

I was interested in the capabilities of those displays as to handling less than pristine content.
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Old 09-02-2016, 09:54 PM   #166
WiFi-Spy WiFi-Spy is offline
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Default Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR

TIL it is the Z9D not the ZD9
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:46 PM   #167
ray0414 ray0414 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
TIL it is the Z9D not the ZD9


I read today that it's called ZD9 in europe. Almost as bad as samsung giving their flagship tv a completly different model number in various countries. (3 by my count)
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:26 PM   #168
Stacey Spears Stacey Spears is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
Stacey, not sure if you’re supplementing
Yes, just supplementing. One of the issues HDR faces, which Robert as a retailer probably knows better than anyone, is that brighter catches the eye. I can see two displays side-by-side on a showroom floor. Once is an HDR display and the other is an SDR display in vivid mode. The HDR will be at a disadvantage.

The Z9D tracks 2084 nicely. Seems like such a basic thing and yet so many don't. My co-worker is supposed to send me all of the results this evening. He is measuring a bunch of displays and so I will get them tonight. I will pull out the Z9D numbers into and get them posted sometime this weekend. I plan to bring it home on Monday.

Off topic rant, not a fan of the way all of the TVs deal with content from a USB stick. When I say all these TVs, I mean Sony, Samsung, LG, Panasonic, etc... I Just want them to show me the folder structure so I can navigate and play my clips. This is just a personal preference since I have my stuff organized and know what i want. I am a corner case, not to be confused with a basket case. I suppose it is nice that the TVs are showing the content, from all the subfolders, on a single screen so you don't have to look.

Last edited by Stacey Spears; 09-02-2016 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:02 AM   #169
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
I read today that it's called ZD9 in europe...
Just today?

Ray, you’re in need of process improvement wrt watching YouTube videos. Posted by Paul, nearly a month ago……https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...1#post12519601
Look ^ at the outside of the box.

I sometimes enjoy using the word ‘Zed’ as a generic term for both no matter on which side of the ocean people hail from, but when I do, I think some folks don’t know what the hell I’m talking about so I often default to ‘Z9D’.
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:08 AM   #170
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey Spears View Post
Yes, just supplementing.
I’m known to do that too

Keep the Zed thread warm (please)… my wife and I are off to Europe soon so I won’t be available to give it an occasional bump.
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:57 AM   #171
ray0414 ray0414 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey Spears View Post
Yes, just supplementing. One of the issues HDR faces, which Robert as a retailer probably knows better than anyone, is that brighter catches the eye. I can see two displays side-by-side on a showroom floor. Once is an HDR display and the other is an SDR display in vivid mode. The HDR will be at a disadvantage.

Yes, at times, the SDR version of a show will actually have brighter/more vibrant colors, though technically inaccurate. I noticed this a long time ago with Men in Black 3 via amazon. the HDR version had very toned back colors.

There are ways to boost an HDR image through settings, you just gotta know which ones to press. For example, on Samsung and LG tvs, with HDR10, you can boost the brightness and colors by turning up the dynamic contrast setting. or on 2016 samsung tvs, you can turn on the new HDR+ feature which basically boosts the colors and brightness giving a more richer look. This can cause a little clipping though, but to the normal viewer they may not even notice or know what clipping even is. There was a german review site that had the KS9800 and G6 side by side, they do very thorough reviews. They found that by using HDR+ on the samsung it has almost the same HDR picture as the oled, just brighter. (it can be used for SDR as well). (By the way, the German website is releasing their review of the z9d on youtube which will also have a side by side comparison with the ks9800. Couple months ago they had a 24minute video comparing the ks9800 and E6 oled).

Curious if the Z9D has any type of HDR enhancer that can be applied to HDR material, i know it as an HDR converter for SDR.

Hoping to get your clips played Monday on my ks9800. Had to send an email to Dropbox so I could reactivate my account and download.

Last edited by ray0414; 09-03-2016 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:36 AM   #172
JimShaw JimShaw is offline
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Walked in to B.B. today and there it was the 65" Z9D. Finally, I got to see it. It was bright, it was on HDR and it was beautiful.

Tomorrow, I will head back down and look again.

Now, how does one tell his wife that the JS9500 is getting old, has dust on it and needs to be replaced?

This is going to take some thinking
.
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:40 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post
Walked in to B.B. today and there it was the 65" Z9D. Finally, I got to see it. It was bright, it was on HDR and it was beautiful.

Tomorrow, I will head back down and look again.

Now, how does one tell his wife that the JS9500 is getting old, has dust on it and needs to be replaced?

This is going to take some thinking
.
I am really debating returning my new oled tv for this. I've heard nothing but amazing things about it.
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:50 AM   #174
PaulGo PaulGo is offline
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I was also in the Potomac Mills, VA Best Buy today and the had the 65" Z9D next to the 75" 940D. It was in a bright environment and both sets were displaying the same HDR content. While the 940D displayed a bright and clear picture I would say the Z9D was least twice as bright. It reminded me a a detergent commercial - whiter whites and more intense colors. The white areas did not loose any details but I never saw a picture that had such intense whites. I almost felt that I needed to wear sunglasses!
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:25 PM   #175
goldenarm84 goldenarm84 is offline
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Here's a review about the TV that was posted on the Best Buy site from someone who bought the TV:



"The best LED television (period).

September 2, 2016
   

EternlRayne
(read all my reviews)

Please wait while more information about EternlRayne is loaded.

Be warned, this is a very long review. I recommend you have a seat and grab a drink before reading.


Items used during this review: Sony 65Z9D, Sony 75x940D, Samsung 65KS9800, LG G6 OLED, Samsung K8500 UHD player, Star Trek Into Darkness UHD and Batman V Superman UHD.


Anyone who has been a fan of Sony TVs, or any TV for the matter, in the last couple of years is sure to remember the 950B. It was hailed as the best TV on the market by many and remained so until LG burst onto the scene with their OLED technology. Since that fateful day two years ago (two lifetimes in the technology realm), OLED has been the king of the proverbial TV mountain. Sony has now arrived with another TV set meant to reclaim its throne. The Z9D is being hailed by Sony as the best residential available TV on the market. I have had several days to spend with the set and this lengthy review will tackle different aspects of the TV. Quick note: The Z9D still runs on the same version of Android as the “D” models so I’m going to skip the software aspect entirely.


The first thing you notice when you turn on the set is that it’s bright, and I mean bright. I’m not going to measure nits or anything (review sites can do that), but just by eyeing the Z9D, it is nearly as bright as the brightest TV on the market, Samsung’s KS9800. Both of them can hurt your eyes if you stare too closely at them, just like the sun. Staying of the KS9800, Sony went with a Master Backlight system for the Z9D. It basically amounts to a full array set like the KS9800, but without set zones. Know all full-array sets have zones. A zone is a section with a number of LEDs (think 100 LEDs) behind a TV panel. That zone can dim or even turn off giving better blacks. The Z9D, however, is not reliant on zones. Zones are not perfect because you cannot completely turn off one LED while keeping one next to it lit. The Z9D, on the other hand, can turn off any LED it needs to, thanks to its unique lighting system. This leads to blacks that are better (and more importantly, more precise) than any other LED TV. They don’t quite reach OLED blacks, but there's more on that comparison later in the review.


For this review, I will be using the 940D for the primary comparison as it the closest set to the Z9D. The KS9800 isn’t even in the race and comparison to the OLED G6 will come later. For viewing materials, I first used the Sony demo. I instantly noticed that the Z9D was a great improvement in many aspects. Brightness was the most prominent, but color accuracy was the most impressive. Colors that were near impossible to see on the 940D were clearly visible on the Z9D. Also, colors flowed and changed more naturally. Shades of green and red were more accurate and matched their original color. Those who would have labeled the 940D as the most accurate LED TV, would will be pleasantly surprised by the accuracy of the Z9D.


First film was Star Trek Into Darkness. This film was used to show color and black level. In the opening section of the film, Kirk and Bones run through the red forest, which is actually red on the Z9D. I always thought the 940D did the best job of showing this vibrant red, but the Z9D is superior in showing not only a brighter and richer red, but a more accurate and clean red. The Z9D not only has more color than the 940D, it has better color (which can be attributed to a better processor). The single most impressive detail in the film was the black of the native populations eyes vs the white of their skin. In the 940D, their black eyes could never truly get black because the LED zone was too large to cover such a small number of pixels. That zone had to dim to get the eyes as black as it could, while also getting as bright as possible to show their white faces. The Z9D does not have this issue. It shows their eyes a true black and their skin a perfect white. It does this with no problem, no haloing effect no and jitter because of the high contrast. This is also evident in the volcano Spock falls into. In the 940D, sections are black and others are red/orange. The TV has to constantly fight to show the mixture of colors as the lava churns, leading to sections that are black when it should be red and vice versa. The Z9D can instantly show dark cooling lava and black smoke while simultaneously showing extremely bright reds/orange hues that would put the KS9800 to shame.


The final film tested was Batman V Superman. This film was chosen because it is a very, very dark film. In fact, it is one of the most difficult films for a TV set to accurately display. A thin line must be walked to strike a balance between its light and dark moments. You either have to turn the brightness on your TV up so as to see the small details or turn it down so the nighttime sequences are actually dark and not gray. I am pleased to say that Z9D took to this film better than I could have hoped. This is where the Z9D shows a superiority to the OLED (there, I said it.) I first watched the actually fight scene between the films two namesakes on the OLED and while the black levels were phenomenal, I knew the TV was hiding so much underneath those absolute blacks. The same scene on the Z9D was nowhere near as black, but this was actually a better situation. The OLED could not show those very dark grays and dark blues like the Z9D could. Batman’s suit on the OLED looked either black or blue, depending on the light, while on the Z9D, it showed the correct shade of metallic gray. His suit actually looked like it was made from a carbon based metal like a titanium and aluminum alloy. Not to be left out, Superman’s costume looked phenomenal as well. The cyan (or teal) of the “belt” around his waist shone through the black of the film with ease. His hair was a perfect black and his heat vision was actually red unlike the orange that most TV’s display. Every scratch mark on Batman’s suit or armor, and every black section around his ribs was visible. His eyes, and only his eyes, glowed a brilliant HID blue as he was thrown across the screen (a testament to the Master Backlight system.) The fight in the abandoned building was equally impressive. Graffiti that was missed on the OLED were easily visible on the Z9D because it’s black level were impressive, but also tame and not absolute. The most impressive thing about the scene was I could simply see everything.


“Well dude, is there anything you don’t like about the TV?” Yes. It does not support HDR through a UHD player right out of the box. You have to dig in the settings to turn it on. If not, films won’t have that desired “HDR” sign on the info bar atop the screen. It’s odd that to unleash the full potential of such an expensive set, you have to search for such an obviously needed thing. It’s forgivable on an 850D, but not on the Z9D. The Master Backlight system can also be too bright. Certain explosions or flashes of light can hurt one’s eyes. While it’s not bright enough to cause any serious or permanent damage, take care not to turn the brightness at max when watching with little children. I don’t recommend that you have it always at max anyway as it shortens the life of your TV. The Master Backlight turns LED’s up and down in brightness depending on what’s on the screen. Really bright sections can sometimes “bleed” (I use that word delicately) into the dreaded 2:40 black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. I didn’t notice this happen once at the top of the screen, but occurred on occasion at the bottom whenever the TV had to put a white object at the very edge of the black bars. It would only light a handful of LEDs at the bar. This is something only active eyes would notice, and also something soon forgotten. In all three films I saw this, but forgot about it within a few minutes as I got more engrossed by the film. Finally, there seems to be a loss of black levels at the black bars on the bottom of the TV when off to a sharp angle. Once again, this only happens when a bright image was on screen, but it’s worth noting. I never saw this when I sat in front of the screen so you shouldn’t either. You have to sit at a near unreasonable angle to see it. And that’s it. There is nothing else I can nitpick about this TV.


So fine. You’ve read all these words (or skipped most of it) to get an answer to this simple question: is it better than OLED. Well... But wait! Before you leave upset, let me explain. To answer such a question, you have to ask yourself, “what do you want from your tv?” Does the Z9D have equal blacks to the OLED? No, but it certainly comes close, closer than any other set has dared. So if you want that perfect black, you have to get an OLED, that’s just technology. But the Z9D did not lose that battle by much. In some sections of Batman V Superman, the Z9D came unbelievably close to OLED blacks, around 90% by my estimation. I have no specific numbers of nits here so sorry, I’m just using my (and others) eyes. The OLED wins the blacks category, but the Z9D wins in almost every other facet. It is a far brighter TV, which allows for impressive contrast. It shows a more natural white (like a monitor white) than the OLED. It is a more accurate TV where color and shading are concerned, with a more powerful processor, and shows every version of HDR indiscriminately. The question about Web OS or Android OS is personal so that’s that.


My last words are this; the Z9D is the best LED TV in the market, and in my opinion, a more impressive innovation than the 950B. It is an obvious contender for simply “the best TV” on the market. Those who purchase it instead of the OLED will be buying a worthy alternative, there is absolutely no doubt about that."






I would recommend this to a friend!
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:50 PM   #176
ray0414 ray0414 is offline
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^^^careful with best buy and amazon reviews. Some of them are fake and put on by the company themselves. I trust forum members more because we get to know their history better.
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Old 09-06-2016, 07:46 PM   #177
Stacey Spears Stacey Spears is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414
Some of them are fake and put on by the company themselves.
While I am not sure if a large company, such as Sony, would do that, I absolutely know of people who's business is selling on Amazon. They attend seminars on Amazon selling. They fully work the review system. After learning about that this past summer, I don't bother with Amazon reviews anymore.

So much in life is subjective, it is difficult to trust reviews. Food is a great example. One person can love and another hate, the same meal at a restaurant. Reminds me of the South Park episode on the Yelp reviewers.

This line really got me. "In fact, it is one of the most difficult films for a TV set to accurately display." Really? Sure, it is probably is one of the most difficult films for a TV set to accurately display because the viewer might be tempted to throw stuff at the TV because the movie is so bad. :-) Comment based on reviews of the movie. I have not actually seen it or Man of Steel.

I did look at BvS on HDR clipping though. It has some good shots in it for that, much like Pan.

Last edited by Stacey Spears; 09-06-2016 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 09-06-2016, 09:19 PM   #178
Samus Aran Samus Aran is offline
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I never trust user reviews on store sites, not because of potential plants, but so much of it is extreme hyperbole. The item is either the greatest thing ever or the worst thing ever.

Anyway, I was at Best Buy today to examine the three TVs I've been looking at (X930D, KS8000, KS9000) and then I finally saw it out in the wild -- the glorious Z9D. Everything I want in a TV. The centerpiece of that display wall was the X940D, but I was still drawn more to the Z9D and could tell it was the better model.

I don't want to convince myself it's worth $6K to buy a TV though.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:33 PM   #179
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Has there been any confirmation on the peak brightness yet?
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:54 PM   #180
Stacey Spears Stacey Spears is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDeM
Has there been any confirmation on the peak brightness yet?
I posted some measurements above. ~1700 nits at D65 in a 10% (area) window. ~700 nits full screen and with an 80x80 pixel (UHD resolution) window.

~1890 nits in vivid mode with everything turned up. (10% window)
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