"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dougotte

Karate = Japanese martial arts.
Kung Fun = Chinese martial arts.

The movie took place in China.

Doug, That is correct. If anyone still shows any interest in the Blu-ray (given now that it has already been on peoples’ shelves going on 9 months or so},.I’m told that there is an article in one of the Cinematographer journals/magazines about the location shoot in China where they interviewed the lenser of record…. and I’ll ask for a link. Perhaps we have some Chinese ex-pats on this board?

Anyway, on another martial arts note, do you know –
‘Tae Kwon Do’ = ?
And furthermore, if you know that…. Then, who be the Grand Master credited with bringing/developing the American version of that particular martial art?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

So, P, see TREE OF LIFE yet?

Not yet, ……and you?
I’m still trying to find the time to take the family out to see Super 8….and as a belated answer to DenonCI’s query about lens flares and their presence in that motion picture, etc. –

Denon, I personally don’t like anything that draws attention to the surface of the image. In some cases I think lens flares work well, in other cases…. not so much. I don’t know what the case is with Super 8 as I still haven’t seen that movie yet. Also, I don’t like the excessive use of any cinematographic technique (such as the ‘dutching’ in John Adams ) as I feel it loses its effect after awhile and even becomes counter-productive to the storytelling.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

working in, and remaining in, 4K resolution throughout the entire process (for a Super 35 film acquisition) is the elite way of finishing a motion picture

P-Man, you know you've got me on the edge of a rant, just putting Super 35 and elite in the same sentence, right?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

P-Man, you know you've got me on the edge of a rant, just putting Super 35 and elite in the same sentence, right?

O.K., 35mm....vague enough! Dude, you're causing me to get mixed up in the Q with all the questions asked since I've been gone. Wait a moment for me to catch up.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Maybe I am reading into it too much, but the fact that there is now a link on PJ's Facebook page to Bill Hunt's glowing review of the set implies they are saying no issue.

On a related note, one particular PM was sent to me while away, which had my ears burning from the language spoken by dem staffers over at HDD –
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/blu-...ml#post2198222

I hope in the future, I never get on the bad side of those HDD folks, as they pull no punches! They truly calls ‘em as they sees ‘em. Git back in there (HDD) Bill !!, as apparently they didn’t think much of your last rebuttal where I’m told you graced them with your presence and words of wisdom 10 pages or so back on that same thread.

Bill may have some answering to do on this newest count, especially given the past history of him being alerted last year to the fact that the HD broadcast of the theatrical version of FOTR appeared superior to the Blu-ray home media edition (in terms of detail), the significance of which he sloughed off or downplayed, and by so doing, certainly didn’t exactly build a heck of a lot of confidence in his judgment in the eyes of some objective observers. I mean what the heck, why even purchase Blu-ray?

[Penton-Man]

Anyway Heavy, if ultimately, there is a lack of a clear-cut response to the distress this green hue issue has caused on audio/video enthusiast forums all over the internet, I fear peoples’ confidence in Peter J. will be permanently eroded to some extent.

I still have faith that eventually Peter or one of his close colleagues directly associated with the LOTR EE project will be forthcoming in confronting this situation head-on like NBC Sports did with the Masters Coverage over at Congressional last weekend (Hey Denon CI, I’ve killed worms there too) -
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#43472191
Sure seems to be a lot of editing out or flat out not mentioning ‘G’ words recently, i.e. first God now the color Green from reviews.

Hopefully a response will be sooner rather than later as prolonged delay suggests collusion between all parties associated (studio and filmmaker) with the recent release. I personally think that in these types of unclear situations, it is best to hear FACTS presented from the horse’s mouth, so to speak. See the link in the last paragraph regarding another recent internet fracas with motion picture presentation, here – https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post4796537

And, believe it or not, some very active Directors of similar notoriety (who use social media regularly) do respond to internet distress from fans over much less significant items, albeit with bolder language –
http://thefilmstage.com/2010/11/26/t...tion-troubles/

^ The following is the Direct link for those too impatient to sit through the commercial –
http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum...l=1#post153623

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by rickah88

I think no matter what, some are going to complain.
There are 2 impossibilities in life:
1) Pleasing ALL the people SOME of the time
2) Pleasing SOME of the people ALL of the time

I'll cast my vote next Tuesday!

Well RicK, nobody should dissuade you from purchasing this set by belittling your choice to do so, as that is your prerogative.

But you have to understand that some people are a bit more discerning with their discretionary income when it comes to more expensive sets like this and they are feeling distressed by this whole ambiguous situation - given the cost of the package, fan or not, they are hesitant/angry to put down a pile of green-backs to make a purchase without some sort of reassurance from the filmmaker as to what be the truth of the whole matter.

The problem is then compounded by the fact that the delay in receiving an official detailed statement causes cynicism in the eyes of some to any eventual public statements put forth by the distributing studio or Peter J. himself. I mean, unless there’s been news to the contrary on that LOTR thread we have here, ‘production sources’ haven’t even provided basic technical information such as to whether Peter’s post house in New Zealand (Park Road Post) did most or all of the work on the remastering of the LOTR set and subsequently sent their HD deliverable (i.e. the 'Master') to the Burbank studio? or, whether WB did some/ most of the work here in the U.S., under *the guidance/approval* of Peter J., of course. It’s all rather cloak-and-dagger at this point which breeds skepticism.

At this point, I would say that just about the only thing one can confidently assume as to the digital history of this production is that GDMX (in the U.S.) did the encoding and I’m told from friends whom I still know and trust that all 3 LOTR films went through the exact same protocol to be processed by and output from their encoder. Therefore, if you don’t see the global green hue on all three films of the Trilogy, then the problem (if there is one, meaning it was not an intended creative choice but a foul-up) was not caused at the encoder level but rather further upstream….if people are seriously interested in determining any root cause.

Like I said before, I still have some faith that eventually Peter or one of his close colleagues directly associated with the color grading of FOTR EE will be forthcoming in providing everyone with a thorough explanation of the situation.

[Penton-Man]

^
For if not, I’m afraid many home theater enthusiasts will view that silence as being arrogantly dismissive about the whole matter and I fear that some creative *I hate the green* person will produce a “Hitler finds out* YouTube version (with Hitler playing a WB executive or Peter himself) as, for example, I was alerted to this newest one by a disgruntled Canuck fan in Vancouver, who shares my fondness of YouTube –

YouTube - ‪Hitler finds out Vancouver Canucks lost the Stanely Cup‬‏

Then that (yet to be produced) Hitler-FOTR YouTube comedy clip will invariably be picked up by blogger sites and forums all over the internet and prepare yourselves for yet another round of internet distress.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

There are other reasons to have liked Vancouver over Boston.

Great timing Anthony. See above post.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Objectivity

Anyway, my wife is legally blind. She has no vision in one eye (except for light and dark) and extremely poor vision in the other...

See Paul H’s response. Also, on a real-world note, let me say that I truly empathize with your wife’s situation, as I had a close family member (my father, who has since passed ) who was challenged with being nearly blind in both eyes during his later years of life. May I ask what specific condition (the medical name) affects your wife?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

That's one reason I don't like 3D. The image is far too dim and lacks contrast and "life." 2D is just much more preferable aside from not having to wear glasses.

All I can tell you is that if you’re unhappy now, then be patient,….for in 5 -10 years there will be laser projectors in the field that will significantly improve the current dimness of any and all 3D motion pictures which some viewers find objectionable.

Meanwhile, you may want to try out 3D at home as according to a most recent survey “87% of current 3DTV set owners say they are satisfied with the quality of their 3D picture” – which I assume also includes the ‘brightness’ of the picture. See -
http://tvtechnology.com/article/121760

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Objectivity

I guess in this case my specific question would be - Do the clear 3D glasses at places like Disney World work in a RealD theater. If so, without flying to Florida and sneaking a pair into my pocket, is there a place I can buy a pair with clear lenses online?

I don’t know and I don’t know if the lenses would even stay ‘clear’ (to the viewer’s eyes) when watching 3D in a RealD theater but, given the overwhelming attention on all the home theater forums with the green in FOTR I can’t help posting this link in which the news release contains the phrase…”The glasses come in fun, kid-friendly green” –
http://www.dcinematoday.com/dc/pr.aspx?newsID=2377

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well RicK, nobody should dissuade you from purchasing this set by belittling your choice to do so, as that is your prerogative.

But you have to understand that some people are a bit more discerning with their discretionary income when it comes to more expensive sets like this and they are feeling distressed by this whole ambiguous situation - given the cost of the package, fan or not, they are hesitant/angry to put down a pile of green-backs to make a purchase without some sort of reassurance from the filmmaker as to what be the truth of the whole matter.

The problem is then compounded by the fact that the delay in receiving an official detailed statement causes cynicism in the eyes of some to any eventual public statements put forth by the distributing studio or Peter J. himself. I mean, unless there’s been news to the contrary on that LOTR thread we have here, ‘production sources’ haven’t even provided basic technical information such as to whether Peter’s post house in New Zealand (Park Road Post) did most or all of the work on the remastering of the LOTR set and subsequently sent their HD deliverable (i.e. the 'Master') to the Burbank studio? or, whether WB did some/ most of the work here in the U.S., under *the guidance/approval* of Peter J., of course. It’s all rather cloak-and-dagger at this point which breeds skepticism.

At this point, I would say that just about the only thing one can confidently assume as to the digital history of this production is that GDMX (in the U.S.) did the encoding and I’m told from friends whom I still know and trust that all 3 LOTR films went through the exact same protocol to be processed by and output from their encoder. Therefore, if you don’t see the global green hue on all three films of the Trilogy, then the problem (if there is one, meaning it was not an intended creative choice but a foul-up) was not caused at the encoder level but rather further upstream….if people are seriously interested in determining any root cause.

Like I said before, I still have some faith that eventually Peter or one of his close colleagues directly associated with the color grading of FOTR EE will be forthcoming in providing everyone with a thorough explanation of the situation.

Penton,

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation! I(heck we all do) appreciate your insights and look forward to more to come!
Don't get me wrong it's not like I throw money into the blu-ray streets. I do like to wait for good deals, but this trilogy is one of my favorites! The books are in my top 3 of all time, only surpassed by the late Robert Jordan's(& Brandon Sanderson) Wheel of Time & Terry Brooks original Shannara series(both of which I'd love to see picked up my Mr. Jackson). But I digress, in the couple of weeks since this "controversy" has arisen I've seen two reviews BOTH by trusted sources(Bill Hunt & Ken Brown) BOTH acknowleding there is a color timing issue, but that in their opinion was not the big of a deal. If anything maybe we should be thanking all the firestorm as the price as now dropped to $70 on Amazon($23/movie). Were I to have a beef it would be with the extras being placed on DVD and not BD. Perhaps they could not be upgraded to HD, I'm not really sure...but in my humble opinion the fans are getting everything from the DVD EE's AND a few bonus doc's that were on other DVD releases. Not to mention, what reviewers are calling the best transfer they've seen to date. For me, a fan, that's not too bad of a deal. I've learned long ago not to scratch the surface too hard or kick the tires to long, as you will almost always find something wrong.
If, down the road, an announcement is made by the studio...as I said previously maybe they will offer an exchange program.
And let's face facts, this set is just a placeholder for some as there is sure to be a 5-movie "Ultimate Edition" released when the 2 Hobbit prequels are ready to be released on BD. Then we'll get to rehash all these msgboard threads
Again, thanks for all your detailed insight it's always appreciated!

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum...l=1#post153623

I had no idea Mr. Bay has been busying himself, "pushing the envelope" of 3D! It's exciting to learn that someone is getting so close to 4D.

What'll they think of next?!

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not yet, ……and you?
I’m still trying to find the time to take the family out to see Super 8….and as a belated answer to DenonCI’s query about lens flares and their presence in that motion picture, etc. –

Denon, I personally don’t like anything that draws attention to the surface of the image. In some cases I think lens flares work well, in other cases…. not so much. I don’t know what the case is with Super 8 as I still haven’t seen that movie yet. Also, I don’t like the excessive use of any cinematographic technique (such as the ‘dutching’ in John Adams ) as I feel it loses its effect after awhile and even becomes counter-productive to the storytelling.

I'll let you decide what you think of TOL, but whatever anyone thinks of the film it demands to be seen on as big a screen as possible (ie., not "just" BluRay at home).

I didn't mind the skewing of JOHN ADAMS, but I grant you that these cinematic "tics" can sometimes draw you out. JJ is NOT so subtle with lens flares, nor is there a shortage of Spielbergian "looking up into the sky" shots, but it's a decent flick worth seeing. Meanwhile, watched DO THE RIGHT THING on Blu, hadn't seen it in a gazillion years (heading to Brooklyn on Sunday) and forgot how often Spike/Earnest dutch the camera in that film.

Enjoy Van, standing invite when you get over the nice part of this country.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Meanwhile, watched DO THE RIGHT THING on Blu, hadn't seen it in a gazillion years (heading to Brooklyn on Sunday) and forgot how often Spike/Earnest dutch the camera in that film.

Did it look passable in the 'filter off' BD version?

BTW, any chance you'll be in Manhattan on Saturday?

[micks_address]

Hi Penton,

Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed response.. is there a sequel in the works or to early to say?

Cheers,
Mick

p.s. i have the lord of the rings extended editions on my desk... will have to check out the fellowhsip tonight.. even though i only got 3 hours sleep last night with a daughter who wanted to stay up all night for some reason!

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Hi Mick ,

The *claim to fame*, so to speak, with the post production workflow for The Karate Kid (2010) is that it was a rather cutting edge and atypical post process (for the industry-at-large that is) since it was scanned at 4K and finished in 4K…..meaning, the color grading was done in 4K (on a Baselight Eight). This is of particular significance because even for those modern feature films which are well funded enough to be scanned in 4K at other facilities….many end up being graded using 2K proxies and thusly, are in fact, not completely worked in 4K resolution throughout the digital post production pipeline.

The reason why working in, and remaining in, 4K resolution throughout the entire process (for a Super 35 film acquisition) is the elite way of finishing a motion picture is that the color grading tools are more accurate and precise at that higher resolution…..makes for a better PQ outcome in the end.

I think there eventually will come a day in which most feature films are not just scanned in 4K but also graded in 4K (industry-wide). The industry is just not there….yet. Sony is way ahead of the curve as the facility on the lot can handle ten streams of 4K content simultaneously.

P.S.
Hey, Michel, (from imdb) here’s a belated tip of the hat to the fine work you do for imdb and on that note, thanks goes out to you or one of your colleagues for finally correcting the Tech Specs of The Karate Kid (2010) from 2K to 4K (for the master format), which was originally incorrectly listed as I alerted you and others to back here, months ago –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post3918829

Good job . The tech specs as originally listed (2K) was not the fault of imdb either, but rather, came out of a mis-step from SPHE in as much as someone inadvertently checked the wrong box or some such thing as trivial as that when providing you guys with the Technical information for that particular motion picture. Mistakes will happen.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

All I can tell you is that if you’re unhappy now, then be patient,….for in 5 -10 years there will be laser projectors in the field that will significantly improve the current dimness of any and all 3D motion pictures which some viewers find objectionable.

Meanwhile, you may want to try out 3D at home as according to a most recent survey “87% of current 3DTV set owners say they are satisfied with the quality of their 3D picture” – which I assume also includes the ‘brightness’ of the picture. See -
http://tvtechnology.com/article/121760

I do plan on buying a new display this year (or possibly next year). I will definitely try out the 3D on it. I am very curious how sports - such as baseball games would look. I'm leaning on an upper end 64-65" Samsung or Panasonic plasma, but am not ruling out an LED LCD in that size range either (although the prices start to push me away).

Hey Penton, regarding Raiders of the Lost Ark viewings, can you please keep us posted on news if it will be shown in other parts of the country? I would love to see this new restoration on the big screen as Raiders is my favorite movie of all time. I was nine when it came out - I saw it 12 times between 1981-1983. After all of these years, it still holds up as my favorite film!

[dougotte]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Anyway, on another martial arts note, do you know –
‘Tae Kwon Do’ = ?
And furthermore, if you know that…. Then, who be the Grand Master credited with bringing/developing the American version of that particular martial art?

Tae Kwon Do = Korean.

I can't answer the 2nd question. I'm no expert on martial arts; I merely have a casual interest in Asian cultures and languages. For example, I know that the words Tae Kwon Do are Korean based upon knowing a few words of Korean, but I don't know the meaning of these 3 words! Growing up in the DC area, we were bombarded by Jhoon Rhee's Tae Kwon Do commercials, with the famous tagline "Nobody Bothers Me." Of course, Jhoon Rhee is a Korean name.

Doug

[JimSD]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I still have faith that eventually Peter or one of his close colleagues directly associated with the LOTR EE project will be forthcoming in confronting this situation head-on like NBC Sports did with the Masters Coverage over at Congressional last weekend (Hey Denon CI, I’ve killed worms there too) -
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#43472191

The Masters Coverage at Congressional last weekend? C'mon Penton, it's a slow group today if no one has called you out on that one yet.