The 8K infrastructure is well on it's way. But not how many of you might envision.
Part of the specs for ATSC 3.0 deals with 8K transmissions. Each station has 57 Mbps capability. What's missing is the commerical use of VVC. Tests have already been successfully completed broadcasting 8K at 85 Mbps using the current HEVC codec. VVC will reduce the bandwidth to fit inside their max capicity transmission system.
Will they broadcast 8K content? There are two different and opposing theories on that:
Yes - they will want to offer something no other transmission system (SAT/CBL/IP) will do. When HD first became available it was only on ATSC 1.0 (OTA)
No - they will break up their bandwidth allotement into X number of HD channels and Y number of SD channels. And MAYBE offer a once a year special sporting event in 4K.
I think 8K for western OTA broadcasts is a long way off. Even now major sports events are being done in 1080p and then upscaled for 4K transmission, but then is resolution even the important thing with sport? Motion resolution should be the priority, 1080p120 is only slightly more bandwidth than 4K24.
I think 8K for western OTA broadcasts is a long way off. Even now major sports events are being done in 1080p and then upscaled for 4K transmission, but then is resolution even the important thing with sport? Motion resolution should be the priority, 1080p120 is only slightly more bandwidth than 4K24.
Are they still mainly using 1080p cameras to record sports?
The 8K infrastructure is well on it's way. But not how many of you might envision.
Unfortunately this drumbeat from you is nothing but tech porn posturing...
How I envision it is not arbitrary. It's very important. This supposed infrastructure needs to start indicating there will be movie and TV content adoption. You're just showing of the promise in a vacuum. Who cares. That same could be said about SACD historically and now HiRes audio digital tracks. But if the bands I like and want to collect most (mainstream) and libraries of popular music aren't specifically asking for hires audio masters for their content or their label doesn't do those formats? Or some legal balony stops one album from happening and thats the one I wanted most? I'm shit out of luck getting "the latest and greatest".
Formats can't be lockedoff, exclusive or have all kinds of gaping holes like those examples and be expected to succeed in any market saturation sense. That's a valid analogy and criticism of the current trajectory of 8K.
I think 8K for western OTA broadcasts is a long way off.
here in Canada there are no ATSC 3 broadcasters. In the US it exists in around 60 markets only (unfortunately none near me) and almost none of them broadcast in 4k but it is used to cram in more channels. t this point wake me up ehen 4k broadcast are viable and then I will be thinking about 8k.
Atsc 3.0 is now available in 68 markets in the USA. That is over half of all households. I think they started it up last fall. So things are moving. Atsc 1.0 was getting old and there was supposed to be a 2.0 but it never panned out. The tech industry is always moving forward. I dont understand why people are hating on 8k so much. 4k is getting old and its not if but when 8k takes over. The transition is happening now and will speed up in the next few years. To each his own, if you like 1080p hd its still there. Some of us are av enthusiasts and love trying out the new advancements. Technology still has a long way to go. 4k is nothing compared to what is possible and inevitable. In the future we might have holograms or VR in every house. Totaly immersive types of tv like what you see in star trek.
One great bonus of 1000fps 1000Hz on 0ms-GtG displays is the ability to software-emulate a CRT electron beam or software-emulate plasma subfields.
So you can use brute Hz and framerate, on a retina-refresh-rate display, to temporally emulate (phosphor, zero blur, decay) any retro display more accurately.
You can use ~16+ digital refresh cycle to emulate one CRT refresh cycle. Even HDR becomes useful to simulate the brightness of the electron beam dot (temporally emulated over a short time period, spread over a very short retina-fineness refresh cycle). One frame of an emulated CRT refresh cycle looks like a frame from a 1000fps high speed video of a CRT (rolling scan with a fadebehind effect).
Incidentally, playing back a 1000fps high speed video of a CRT, in real-time to a 1000fps 1000Hz display, temporally looks like the original CRT -- including the soft rolling flickerfeel. Give it enough brute retina refresh rate. Even DLP temporal dithering is software-emulatable (in GPU shader) on an ultrahigh-Hz sample and hold display (The new 500 Hz LCDs are fast enough to simulate a very old DLP chip from a couple decades ago). Throw enough Hz at the problem, any retro temporals can be moved into software.
Blur Busters is currently working on refresh-rate combining multiple projectors in parallel too (e.g. 16 different 60Hz strobed projectors pointing at the same projector screen to produce a 960fps 960Hz image), and using custom projection mapping software to auto-align 16 projector images onto each other and avoiding the manual alignment work. We also figured out the genlock algorithms to deal with the precision-slightly-off-phase VBI's. We developed some algorithms and software to pull refresh-rate-combining off successfully.
We are now working on a white paper (ETA 2023) on this refresh rate combining technique will come out at some point, as it unlocks access to ultrahigh refresh rate experiments much more cheaply using today's technology. In creating a public white paper and putting together a consortium for a demonstration rig, we want easier access to near-retina refresh rates sooner in humankind, so demonstration displays need to happen sooner than later in order to focus the industry to properly develop videophile-quality ultra-Hz displays outside of the gaming monitor market. The next step after 120Hz needs to be 1000Hz, because 60Hz-vs-120Hz is a 8.3ms blur difference, and 120Hz-vs-1000Hz is a 7.3ms blur difference (time difference of 1/1000sec vs 1/120sec) -- the sharp jump up the diminishing curve of returns is mandatory for a sufficient "wow!" effect.
8K 1000fps 1000Hz is now currently possible with today's technology via our new refresh rate combining algorithms, they need to be zero-temporals projectors though (i.e. LCD or LCoS), since temporal dithering of DLP makes refresh rate combining much harder to do at high quality (unless you use about ~24-36 separate DLP projectors doing 1-bit 1440-2880Hz apiece, to do a zero-subrefresh-temporals DLP, but that requires custom projectors like separating dozens of Viewpixx to do 24-36bit color 1440Hz -- e.g. 36 bit color requires 12 DLP's doing red, 12 DLP's doing green, and 12 DLP's doing blue -- or custom built DLP projectors -- far more expensive than refresh-rate-combining cheaper LCD/LCoS. Stacking misalignments and digital GPU-based shader convergence algorithms (CRT style convergence in software even accounting for lens manufacturing imperfections) does soften image somewhat, but the brute 8K oversample factor still produces images sharper than 4K.
The goal is simultaneously combining near-retina-resolution and near-retina-refresh simultaneously -- both for UltraHFR content and for retro display emulators (like software-based simulation of a CRT electron gun).
Retina refresh rate is tons of fun in the laboratory currently! We can finally test tomorrow's algorithms in the lab on today's displays as Blur Busters has found ways to unlock essentially infinite scaling of refresh rate via refresh rate parallelism techniques (stacked projectors strobing round-robin). We found ways to strobe non-strobed LCD projectors, so that we can use more projector candidates off-the-shelf -- even chinese generics.
Though the first applications are probably high-cost apps like enterprise and simulators (e.g. ride simulators), but the desire is to show off 1000fps 1000Hz to as many eyes as possible (e.g. NAB, CEDIA or DisplayWeek of some future year this decade).
Longer-term, we will need direct view OLED / MicroLED with 1000Hz backplanes, and future projector technologies that are refresh-rate-combining friendly will probably be developed by multiple parties.
However, first things first, is to at least /demonstrate/ the benefits of 1000fps 1000Hz in actual convention-usable rigs -- and our algorithmic breakthrough is refresh rate combining projectors, with multiple concurrent algorithmic breakthroughs involving genlock/synchronization, strobing, overdrive, convergence (stacking), processing parallelism, all achievable off-the-shelf. We've even found a software-based genlock algorithm too (precision-out-of-phased VBI's), achievable on commodity GPUs, and we've got source-side algorithmic breakthroughs too. All will be comprehensively covered in our white paper.
Nontheless, lots of things will be quiet for now -- but exciting things are happening in the lab already. The intent is to fast-forward 8K 1000fps 1000Hz demos to the early half of this decade -- pulling 2030s/2040s technology to "by end of 2024" -- at least via a projector venue. Avoiding spilling too many beans, we've solved every single piece of the infinite-Hz chain as cheaply as possible with Blur Busters brilliance -- possibly the most important Blur Busters innovation to be released as a free white paper.
By demoing this, hopefully OLED / MicroLED manufacturers will accelerate ultrahigh-Hz backplanes for a faster race up the diminishing curve of returns, since humankind visibility benefits requires 3x-4x increases in Hz (e.g. 60Hz -> 240Hz -> 1000Hz -> 4000Hz) to really be visible to Average Joe User, to avoid the "grandma can't tell VHS-vs-DVD" or the "can't tell 1080p-vs-4K" effect.
Mandatory sharp geometrics up the diminishing curve convinced us we need to light a fire under the refresh rate race. In order to be visible to most of population.
Refresh rate incrementalism on slow-GtG displays (and high-frequency stutter adding extra blur) sabotages the refresh rate race because average users typically don’t see small Hz differences (in persistence motion blur and stroboscopic behaviours).
The vanishing point of the diminishing curve is not till the quintuple digits, but progressively larger Hz differences are needed for blurless sample-and-hold display science & physics.
Note -- We're now highly well regarded Hz researchers now! I (or my business Blur Busters / TestUFO) is now already cited in over 25 peer reviewed research papers (Google Scholar) involving displays, including papers by parties like Samsung, NVIDIA (two papers!), NIST.gov, and others. If the research papers are too complex, read the Cole Notes at blurbusters.com/area51 (explainer articles that have become Hz textbook reading). If you're an accredited researcher in specific key areas, collaboration is welcome and co-authors in my research white paper are currently being recruited -- the working theme is "Unlocking Access To Unlimited Display Refresh Rates Via Refresh Rate Combining Multiple Consumer Projectors". (Not necessarily the final title).
We have tvs that can do 8k but there's no media. We have 3D media discs but no new tvs to play them on
In theory around the year 2026-2028 we should have a new 8K optical disc format and possibly 8K streaming from Netflix or VUDU. While its true since the year 2016 that all consumer electronics companies dropped Blu-ray 3D support to keep the flat panel display prices cheaper in price. Blu-ray 3D is alive and well on consumer 4K projectors. The entire line of native 4K light engine LCOS projectors from JVC and Sony support both native 4K Blu-ray discs and native Blu-ray 3D which is a 1080P format.
Samsung streams 'Das Boot' in 8K through its own TV Plus app
Quote:
Almost four years after launching its first 8K TVs, Samsung can finally offer premium content in 8K resolution. However, it is just one title and it is available in 8K in Germany only.
Dang, I thought it was the real Das Boot (movie).
Not streaming content.
It would be an upscale if it was the movie. Shot on 35mm film which can't reach 8K unless it's the VistaVision format (maybe) which it wasn't. 35mm Spherical.
Geoff touched on this a few pages ago. TV show was shot using 8K cameras.
It would be an upscale if it was the movie. Shot on 35mm film which can't reach 8K unless it's the VistaVision format (maybe) which it wasn't. 35mm Spherical.
Geoff touched on this a few pages ago. TV show was shot using 8K cameras.
Well, you could scan and master any film source out to 8K if you wanted to. Wouldn't be an "upscale" in that case but nor would it have much in the source to trouble the 8K part of the equation. HBO did some tests a while back with 10K vs 4K scans of some real world 35mm content (1995 film The Tuskegee Airmen) albeit viewed in 4K and not 8K or 10K, and viewed at 4K could discern no difference between them. They then applied the Lowry process (temporal averaging to extract more detail) to the 10K scan and found that there were slightly finer details discernible when viewed at 4K.
Obviously this wasn't an 8K viewing test so won't seem majorly relevant here, but it would've been interesting to compare the two scans sans Lowry processing on an 8K display system. I say sans Lowry because when you have to resort to a very expensive and not entirely transparent process like Lowry's to squeeze a drop more >4K detail out of 35mm then it's not going to be practicable for most. And that's a recent-ish film too, the further back you go the less resolving power that the stocks and lenses have. But again, a straight shootout between the native scans would be cool.
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You should be getting it soon Waboman
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