8K discussion thread

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by DJR662

What does 8K bring along that will make as much of an impact and has the same importance for picture quality like HDR/WCG does?

Further more, and almost equally important (for me at least), there is and most probably will never be 8K movie content on a physical 8K disc format.

Consumer 8K photography and video recording will be the stimulus this time. I know a lot here in a film centric forum just look at 8k content with a lot of doubt, but you always need something to grow the market and 4K had a distinct lack of content also for some time. The studios took the easy way out, instead of providing content closer to native 4K they capitalized on mostly just less compressed 2K with HDR/WCG.

Perhaps with people inspecting films on 8k displays will cause there to more vocal criticism online to what we gotten so far. At least one can hope!

[PaulGo]

Consumers can purchase 4K TV products at a very inexpensive price and currently the availability of 4K content on cable is quite limited (non-existent on broadcast TV). For over 99% of purchasers of TVs a 4K TV is more than good enough. Unless the industry can show consumers the need for 8K TV or the price drops down to the point that it replaces 4K TVs (just as 4K TV have replaced 1080P TVs) 8K TV will remain a fringe product for many years in the US.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Have you seen it in action yourself, Auditor55? No? Then don’t comment.

I don't need to see it, unless science is flawed and salesmen, display manufacturer marketeers and fanboys know more than scientists and PhD's on the subject of human visual acuity.

[Robert Zohn]

Not sure what you have read, but Florian Friedrich, one of the world authority on the science of video and specifically heavily researched on 8K, and the only creator of 8K test patterns disagrees with you.

Here's his Linkedin post and here's a more in depth study and findings on the value of 8K resolution and how we see the advantages at further viewing distances.

With all of this information on the how the human visual system sees the enhanced image performance of 8K resolution at further viewing distances then the vision charts would lead you to believe the biggest advantage that all of the 8K TVs offer is the very best contrast ratio, best up-conversion, and the best color reproduction all of which cannot be had on any 4K TV.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

I don't need to see it, unless science is flawed and salesmen, display manufacturer marketeers and fanboys know more than scientists and PhD's on the subject of human visual acuity.

Thats a valid point, it reminds one of that hyped MQA where it’s magical properties were found not validated. But oh boy did the marketeers really try. 8k is way different, I don’t care if ones visual acuity at a long distance is inadequate, just that the overall recreation of the visuals is a lot more accurate. If you don’t need it yet, that’s fine, I just like improvement with video and audio technologies to move forward not be stuck in the past.

How’s that saying go if your always looking at the past, you’ll never see the future.

[Phillip c. Niethe]

I viewed a 8k television at a best buy but since all they do is play some random crap advertisement footage and won't put in a 4k film for me to watch on it while I fiddle with the settings to see if I like it any better than the surrounding 4K televisions, I say 8k can set on shelf in a store and rot. The 8k didn't appear any different than the surrounding Sony and Samsung they had. Qled and Oled looked the most spectacular.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I know you don’t but the thought of that apparent difference in 4K and 8K images will/or should cause concern amongst developers like Mike Zink and Annie Chang devoted to the challenge of ensuring perceptual fidelity as most lately touted at CES - https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/be...ew-tvs-1267374

and covered on too many other websites to name, not to mention some hobbyists and calibrators that continually blabber on about how important it is to them to achieving accuracy to creative intent with this or that TV or this or that player with this or that HDR format.

I love me some accuracy to intent. But I just don't think that an 8K TV will provide anything more than a minute amount of extra accuracy over a top flight 4K TV - w/ref to what the intrinsic 8K technology does, not just by virtue of manufacturers installing the better processors etc in the 8K TV ranges only - and all for a vastly inflated price point, at least at this stage in proceedings. And when I look at the descriptors for the latest 8Ks and how they proudly tout noise reduction and sharpening as part of their processing toolset then I can't help but cringe.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Phillip c. Niethe

I viewed a 8k television at a best buy but since all they do is play some random crap advertisement footage and won't put in a 4k film for me to watch on it while I fiddle with the settings to see if I like it any better than the surrounding 4K televisions, I say 8k can set on shelf in a store and rot. The 8k didn't appear any different than the surrounding Sony and Samsung they had. Qled and Oled looked the most spectacular.

Currently most of the BB selling 8Ks including Magnolia Design are not wired to separate UHD BD players, they all use a connected store distribution video cable feed to displays. However if you talk to sales in advance they could let you know in advance if they can hook up a store demonstrating UHD BD player to a 8K TV to allow you to play your UHD media provided it's doable, that the wiring/setup is not too much. This would be something they are willing to do for a consumer that needs that to make a real decision not just gamble.

[Fendergopher]

One thing I'm curious about is whether 8K displays make cinematic judder look any better or worse than on 4K displays. I'm not sure if it's only the native panel refresh rate that affects this or not.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

I don't need to see it, unless science is flawed and salesmen, display manufacturer marketeers and fanboys know more than scientists and PhD's on the subject of human visual acuity.

Everyone has their own horn to toot wherein it’s possible to manufacture an experiment or demonstration with a set of conditions geared toward a certain outcome of limited scope - https://www.displaydaily.com/article...n-dolby-vision

But which “scientists and PhD’s on the subject of human visual acuity” have refuted the proposition that quality 8K tvs look no better than their 4K counterparts with methodology using those materials (TVs) at normal viewing distances? You need to cite some specific evidence to be taken seriously; otherwise, you’re just trolling to create controversy like you once did in the Sony Qualia thread on AVS back in the day.

I genuinely want to know what you are reading that directly addresses this. For instance, at the Hollywood Professional Association Tech Retreat next month, I’m looking forward to hearing exactly what Michael Z., who is a known 8K tv skeptic, has to present - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...+#post17258594 .

Also, would be nice to have the presentation of the final tally of all observers in the ‘2K-4K-8K Can You See The Difference” challenge from the last SMPTE Tech conference rather than the results of a single score card - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post17004969
to determine the prowess of one manufacturer’s AI upscaling technology.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Currently most of the BB selling 8Ks including Magnolia Design are not wired to separate UHD BD players, they all use a connected store distribution video cable feed to displays. However if you talk to sales in advance they could let you know in advance if they can hook up a store demonstrating UHD BD player to a 8K TV to allow you to play your UHD media provided it's doable, that the wiring/setup is not too much. This would be something they are willing to do for a consumer that needs that to make a real decision not just gamble.

Best Buy is not going to perform any special request from customers to connect selected 4K Blu-ray players to a 8K TV, and let them bring in their own movies and other content to demonstrate in their store. Most of those TV displays are already mounted on the wall, and they just can't do it, nor have the time to connect any additional equipment to them. The customer will have to view the demo feed that's already connected in the store.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by slimdude

Best Buy is not going to perform any special request from customers to connect selected 4K Blu-ray players to a 8K TV, and let them bring in their own movies and other content to demonstrate in their store. Most of those TV displays are already mounted on the wall, and they just can't do it, nor have the time to connect any additional equipment to them. The customer will have to view the demo feed that's already connected in the store.

You can choose not to believe what I posted, but thats Magnolia Design’s policy as discussed with them today.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

You can choose not to believe what I posted, but thats Magnolia Design’s policy as discussed with them today.

Depends on where you are, I’d have to go over 100 miles for the Woodland Hills Magnolia (which is where I picked up my Oppo 203 3 years ago).

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Depends on where you are, I’d have to go over 100 miles for the Woodland Hills Magnolia (which is where I picked up my Oppo 203 3 years ago).

You local BB does’t even stock 8k displays usually, maybe Urners. For a city of 380,000 it just illustrates how the first year of 8k displays doesn’t have that much retail penetration yet.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by Phillip c. Niethe

I viewed a 8k television at a best buy but since all they do is play some random crap advertisement footage and won't put in a 4k film for me to watch on it while I fiddle with the settings to see if I like it any better than the surrounding 4K televisions, I say 8k can set on shelf in a store and rot. The 8k didn't appear any different than the surrounding Sony and Samsung they had. Qled and Oled looked the most spectacular.

Here you go again, you are attributing the better looking display that you observed at Best Buy to increased resolution alone. Stop being so easily swayed by the "K's". The marketing (psychology) has already influenced you and convinced you to toss aside objectivity.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Here you go again, you are attributing the better looking display that you observed at Best Buy to increased resolution alone. Stop being so easily swayed by the "K's". The marketing (psychology) has already influenced you and convinced you to toss aside objectivity.

The 8k didn't appear any different than the surrounding Sony and Samsung they had. Qled and Oled looked the most spectacular.

Now how did you derive that from his post?

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Everyone has their own horn to toot wherein it’s possible to manufacture an experiment or demonstration with a set of conditions geared toward a certain outcome of limited scope - https://www.displaydaily.com/article...n-dolby-vision

But which “scientists and PhD’s on the subject of human visual acuity” have refuted the proposition that quality 8K tvs look no better than their 4K counterparts with methodology using those materials (TVs) at normal viewing distances? You need to cite some specific evidence to be taken seriously; otherwise, you’re just trolling to create controversy like you once did in the Sony Qualia thread on AVS back in the day.

I genuinely want to know what you are reading that directly addresses this. For instance, at the Hollywood Professional Association Tech Retreat next month, I’m looking forward to hearing exactly what Michael Z., who is a known 8K tv skeptic, has to present - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...+#post17258594 .

Also, would be nice to have the presentation of the final tally of all observers in the ‘2K-4K-8K Can You See The Difference” challenge from the last SMPTE Tech conference rather than the results of a single score card - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post17004969
to determine the prowess of one manufacturer’s AI upscaling technology.

Stop with inflammatory word's like trolling. I'm trying to give my opinion just like you so stop it. Yes, 8K does make a difference, so does 16K depending on the size of the screen and seating distance. Those facts are irrefutable because the human being does not have unlimited ability to see extra details from higher resolution displays regardless of screen size and seating distance, which is what some display manufacturers and their marketeers (psychologist) and influencers would have the public believe.

I Challenge you to bring to this forum and/or post any credible expert in the field display technology or human visual acuity that will claim that human beings can make out the details of increased resolution of of likes of 4K and 8K size and seating distance notwithstanding.

I sit about 9.5 feet from my 65 inch 4K OLED display and I can't tell difference between SDR 1080p content and SDR so-called 4K content. I notice the difference when so-called 4K content is enhanced by Dolby Vision or HDR 10, not even taking to account 8K.

I don't personally need to see 8K when I have difficulty see distinguishing between 2K and 4K.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

I sit about 9.5 feet from my 65 inch 4K OLED display and I can't tell difference between SDR 1080p content and SDR so-called 4K content.

Simple go to your 4K capable YouTube app on TV.
Find 4K Urban Life look at the virtual walks in 4K and some others that are only HD. Both would be in SDR.
If they look identical in resolution your TV is not a 4K OLED.

Example

London, Great Britain - 4K Virtual Walking Tour around the City - Part #1 - YouTube

[Phillip c. Niethe]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Here you go again, you are attributing the better looking display that you observed at Best Buy to increased resolution alone. Stop being so easily swayed by the "K's". The marketing (psychology) has already influenced you and convinced you to toss aside objectivity.

Quoted the wrong guy. To say here you go again would indicate me having been fooled once before ( was a fan of 4K since the reveal. maybe you should remove your head from your rectum and read lol.

[Auditor55]

Joseph J. Kane Jr., Chief Executive Officer

Joe Kane brings more than three decades of experience to video display engineering, production, and operations. His career is distinguished by the success of several educational programs and developments of products in the consumer and professional electronics industries. Mr. Kane was nominated for an Emmy‚ for his contributions to the DVD Video format. Mr. Kane’s formal education is in Electronics, Communications. He spent several years working in telephone, data, and RF communications before making the transition to video technology in the research and development facilities at Eastman Kodak.

I thought I would post this background on Mr. Joe Kane. So I guess this man is an idiot and a clueless nincompoop that doesn't know what he's talking about. So I guess we should listen what some fanboy or salesman have to say on the subject of display technology in general and resolution in particular.

Please watch and listen to what Expert Joe Kane says about 4K resolution, please start at about the 2:45 mark of video.

Home Theater Geeks 180: Ultimate Ultra High Definition - YouTube

Please bring me someone credible (with similar or greater credentials than Joe Kane), that would refute what he's said. He was right then and what he said was proven correct. Now if this man is saying this, why do I need to go down to Best Buy and try to prove him wrong (SMH).

Note: If what said about 4K is correct it also stand true for 8K.