Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Theatrical Versions) - April 6, 2010

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Y'know, I think everyone should just wait until we can actually watch the discs, not just read reviews and look at screengrabs, both of which are entirely subjective and not entirely conclusive.

Good advice, BUT every time the screen grabs have shown DNR, EE, etc......it is always the same way viewing on my FP setup and unfortunately LOTR will be no different I am sure.

I do agree though that everyone should view these for themselves since how much or little these issues bother you will depend on many factors. Those with smaller sets and/or larger seating distance will be less distracted than those of us with FP setups and closer seating for the most part.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

This mentality is the problem with forums like this, with many review sites, and with many mastering engineers.

"Better than DVD" is not the goal for a high-bit-rate format capable of 1080p video without compression artifacting and lossless quality sound that capture astonishing faithfulness to the highest quality source elements even when viewed from 1.5 screen widths in home projection.

"Faithful to the source" should be the goal for blu-ray Disc. Not "better than DVD".

This is home-theater. Not TV. And if you're not watching in full 1080p and with a 30 degree viewing angle to replicate a theatrical-scale viewing experience, you're not experiencing home-theater, you're just watching television, and you won't be able to appreciate the level of detail that other reviewers watching with a cinema-viewing angle are alble to enjoy, and the blu-ray Disc should be faithfully delivering.

Well said David and I agree 100%

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Jeff couldn't be more right. An enraged mob crashes against the rocks, but calm consumers move mountains. Thanks for re-posting his thoughts!

People have every right to be angry. Mountains are just as easily moved or torn down with anger. You bet. If things were done right the first time, we wouldn't have this. Considering how many times transfers haven't been done right, we have something of an epidemic on our hands with Blu-ray. Truely, there's disease a foot with way too many subpar transfers. It wasn't funny or cute when we saw this with DVD, but now with high-res......come on. There's no excuse other than it's too expensive......period. In that case, don't release it at all or charge a higher price to make up for the cost to do it right. None of this half-assed crap. For Blu-ray/1080p, you either do it right or not at all. Some say, well if you "stick it to them" as it were, they won't be motivated to address and fix the issues. Fine, if they don't, then it doesn't come out and everyone then knows exactly, without question, Warner's or whoever's commitment is or lack there of. This sort of "well you've got to be nice to them or else", is the sort of treat the studios with kid gloves, tuck tail, knuckle under, limp wristed excuse we hear so much these days. Studio should do this: Pick a movie in their catalog, find out how much it wil cost to completely restore it, then tell the public this is how much it will cost and how much we would have to charge you. Be up front and open on the costs. If the format is too expensive to maintain and support, then dump it, admit it and go back to DVD. I swear, if your not gonna do it right with this level of resolution, just stop.

[dcowboy7]

They are on TBS not TNT.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by mredman

How do you know its not faithful to the source?

When a relatively crappy HDTV feed looks better than the blu ray, it is safe to say the blu ray is NOT faithful to the source.

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

No, it's a good sized set and 8 feet is about average for that size.

For HT, that is a very small screen in all due respect. Not to mention you are sitting ~2.5 screen widths away which is FAR for 1080p and you wont catch all the detail at that seating distance. The good thing though is you wont notice a lot of the flaws either. I would say 1-1.5 screen widths is ideal for 1080p, but opinions vary on this. I am about 1.8 screen widths from my 94" screen which is a bit further than I would like to be, but in my setup this is as close as I can get without compromising my audio (and I cant fit a larger screen). This is the MAX distance I would want to be for HT though IMO at 1080p.

[Fighter]

Originally Posted by dcowboy7

They are on TBS not TNT.

Nah dude, you're wrong, it's TNT.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Fighter

Nah dude, you're wrong, it's TNT.

You are both wrong, it's on TVA


For me anyway it was on TVA

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by Maggot

People have every right to be angry. Mountains are just as easily moved or torn down with anger. You bet. If things were done right the first time, we wouldn't have this. Considering how many times transfers haven't been done right, we have something of an epidemic on our hands with Blu-ray. Truely, there's disease a foot with way too many subpar transfers. It wasn't funny or cute when we saw this with DVD, but now with high-res......come on. There's no excuse other than it's too expensive......period. In that case, don't release it at all or charge a higher price to make up for the cost to do it right. None of this half-assed crap. For Blu-ray/1080p, you either do it right or not at all. Some say, well if you "stick it to them" as it were, they won't be motivated to address and fix the issues. Fine, if they don't, then it doesn't come out and everyone then knows exactly, without question, Warner's or whoever's commitment is or lack there of. This sort of "well you've got to be nice to them or else", is the sort of treat the studios with kid gloves, tuck tail, knuckle under, limp wristed excuse we hear so much these days. Studio should do this: Pick a movie in their catalog, find out how much it wil cost to completely restore it, then tell the public this is how much it will cost and how much we would have to charge you. Be up front and open on the costs. If the format is too expensive to maintain and support, then dump it, admit it and go back to DVD. I swear, if your not gonna do it right with this level of resolution, just stop.

Don't misunderstand. I don't think anyone is saying that people shouldn't be upset, or that they should put on kid gloves to express their opinions. But anyone in any industry who's dealt with a complaint call from an irate customer will tell you that they're more apt to listen to (and help) a person who calmly explains why they're upset than a person who's screaming into the telephone.

Sometimes, message board posts deal in absolutes and engage in heated rants. The equivalent of a shouting caller. Anyone can bark and whine, but those opinions are, quite frankly, either brushed aside or ignored altogether because of their very nature. Studio reps who read these boards aren't just looking for positive feedback, but tirades about the studio ripping people off, or purposefully releasing a shoddy product, or being lazy, or being a part of some crazy conspiracy... these merely turn reps away, even those reps who are genuinely looking for positive and negative feedback on a title. Ultimately, it isn't about sugar-coating your opinion. It's about understanding any and every human being would be more apt to pay respect to a disheartened but civil filmfan than take abuse from an angry mob.

If threads didn't get so unruly at times, and if posters could conduct 100% civil discussions -- even when they're angry -- I guarantee studios would take advantage of the copious amounts of free market research and slowly but surely adjust their business practices accordingly. Hope that helps clarify. Thanks as always for posting!

[dcowboy7]

Originally Posted by Fighter

Nah dude, you're wrong, it's TNT.

No your wrong its TBS next week....TNT has "pretty woman" on friday.

[Dexter Morgan]

Originally Posted by dcowboy7

No your wrong its TBS next week....TNT has "pretty woman" on friday.

Yep it's TBS.

[Biggiesized]

Ken, the bigger issue at hand here though is the fact that we as consumers, in particular to this release, only have a single means of voicing our concerns. We're not insiders; we can't talk to studio executives even if we wanted to. If we have concerns, we state them and provide reasoning and/or evidence to support those feelings.

With respect to LOTR especially, lots of A/V enthusiasts are disappointed with the video quality. What do we do? Say so and use screenshots FROM THE DISC as proof. One would think this to be a reasonable approach. Instead, many people discredit those that use this method and a shitstorm ensues.

If there was a community mouthpiece for the studios with whom we could communicate our concerns, a lot of this could be avoided.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by Biggiesized

Ken, the bigger issue at hand here though is the fact that we as consumers, in particular to this release, only have a single means of voicing our concerns. We're not insiders; we can't talk to studio executives even if we wanted to. If we have concerns, we state them and provide reasoning and/or evidence to support those feelings.

With respect to LOTR especially, lots of A/V enthusiasts are disappointed with the video quality. What do we do? Say so and use screenshots FROM THE DISC as proof. One would think this to be a reasonable approach. Instead, many people discredit those that use this method and a shitstorm ensues.

If there was a community mouthpiece for the studios with whom we could communicate our concerns, a lot of this could be avoided.

Seriously, there should be something like a Better Business Bureau/Consumer Reports for Blu-ray titles. I feel it's becoming that bad. Too many times, titles are being neglected in these glorified DVD transfers. I went to pick up the movie Bigger than Life, which has been given a nice transfer and once again, I came across so many Warner titles and was reminded how bad they are. The Dirty Dozen.......apperently a horrible transfer. Robin Hood: Prince of Theives.......apperently a horrible transfer. The list goes on and on, one after another as I scan the titles. This should not be. Not at this level, not on this playing field. If there was a real intermediary body that had contacts within the industry, but one that wasn't a political wash over, but one that had teeth and was for the consumer, then perhaps people wouldn't be so upset. Since there isn't, what do you expect. Their concerns, their anger, their dissapointment, their suspicions are truely justified in the kind of record the industry has shown on DVD in the past, with poor Blu-ray transfers, very few times leading to fine re-issues, and now this: A MAJOR, holy grail moment for the Blu-ray format, tainted by either lack of funds, greed or incompetance. It really doesn't matter which at this point, it's just a part of an ongoing lack of commitment to excellence that we see croping up way too many times. The studios, for whatever reason are not stepping forward and doing what needs to be done to get it right on Blu-ray.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by Biggiesized

Ken, the bigger issue at hand here though is the fact that we as consumers, in particular to this release, only have a single means of voicing our concerns. We're not insiders; we can't talk to studio executives even if we wanted to. If we have concerns, we state them and provide reasoning and/or evidence to support those feelings.

With respect to LOTR especially, lots of A/V enthusiasts are disappointed with the video quality. What do we do? Say so and use screenshots FROM THE DISC as proof. One would think this to be a reasonable approach. Instead, many people discredit those that use this method and a shitstorm ensues.

If there was a community mouthpiece for the studios with whom we could communicate our concerns, a lot of this could be avoided.

I definitely understand. I'm not suggesting that the majority of posters you're referring to are doing anything wrong. Many of the concerns I've read are measured, well-worded, logical, and offer evidence and fair arguments or points. When I say angry mob, I'm only referring to those whose frustration and anger overshadow or undermine their reason and ability to communicate their dissatisfaction. Sorry if that wasn't clear. It isn't about muffling concerns or disappointment, or about censoring what you're trying to say. It's just about posing a complaint in a way that reflects the intelligence and validity of the argument, not the underlying emotions that tend to quash a good, solid point. Hope that helps clarify

[Grand Bob]

It was my understanding that the TE release was delayed from last September so that the studio could give it the proper treatment it deserved as a classic. What happened?

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by Maggot

Seriously, there should be something like a Better Business Bureau/Consumer Reports for Blu-ray titles. I feel it's becoming that bad. Too many times, titles are being neglected in these glorified DVD transfers. I went to pick up the movie Bigger than Life, which has been given a nice transfer and once again, I came across so many Warner titles and was reminded how bad they are. The Dirty Dozen.......apperently a horrible transfer. Robin Hood: Prince of Theives.......apperently a horrible transfer. The list goes on and on, one after another as I scan the titles. This should not be. Not at this level, not on this playing field. If there was a real intermediary body that had contacts within the industry, but one that wasn't a political wash over, but one that had teeth and was for the consumer, then perhaps people wouldn't be so upset. Since there isn't, what do you expect. Their concerns, their anger, their dissapointment, their suspicions are truely justified in the kind of record the industry has shown on DVD in the past, with poor Blu-ray transfers, very few times leading to fine re-issues, and now this: A MAJOR, holy grail moment for the Blu-ray format, tainted by either lack of funds, greed or incompetance. It really doesn't matter which at this point, it's just a part of an ongoing lack of commitment to excellence that we see croping up way too many times. The studios, for whatever reason are not stepping forward and doing what needs to be done to get it right on Blu-ray.

Here's my issue with these boards... because of the early on issue Warner Bros. had with not consistently supporting lossless audio, if Warner Bros. releases a subpar, low priority catalog title - people raise their pitchforks, in group en masse. EVERY single time. They release more blu-ray movies than any other studio and they usually have the best prices. For just about every mediocre transfer, they have two great ones to match it. It's the growing pains of any new format. It's not like they're selling a lot of copies of even blu-ray's best sellers. For all we know, WB saw page after page of all the immature comments on Amazon, regarding the TE cuts, and decided not to bother with a worthwhile restoration.

All of the studios release the same subpar, low priority catalog titles (and manage to botch their fair share high priority titles also), but people on here always go after Warner Bros. I say talk about being disappointed with this transfer as much as you want, but as should be obvious by the "Why we hate Warners" thread - the rest of us don't care if you plan on boycotting a specific studio or not, for whatever "noble" purpose you deem necessary. I'm not going to lose sleep because you're never going to buy a copy of Catwoman.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

It was my understanding that the TE release was delayed from last September so that the studio could give it the proper treatment it deserved as a classic. What happened?

I think the delay was simply because their release schedule was overwhelmed, and marketing figured these films would sell well outside of the Christmas sales anyway. I doubt they would have looked significantly different if released in November, and I doubt the reason for the DNR-like look on FOTR (which may be something else that could or could not be fixed (see Penton's comments in his thread)) was due to anything that could have been "fixed" with the delay.

But that's just my opinion based on my experience.

[davcole]

Well, at least we'll be able to say we'll hear some amazing thunderous audio before the Extended Editions come out.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Here's my issue with these boards... because of the early on issue Warner Bros. had with not consistently supporting lossless audio, if Warner Bros. releases a subpar, low priority catalog title - people raise their pitchforks, in group en masse. EVERY single time. They release more blu-ray movies than any other studio and they usually have the best prices. For just about every mediocre transfer, they have two great ones to match it. It's the growing pains of any new format. It's not like they're selling a lot of copies of even blu-ray's best sellers. For all we know, WB saw page after page of all the immature comments on Amazon, regarding the TE cuts, and decided not to bother with a worthwhile restoration.

All of the studios release the same subpar, low priority catalog titles (and manage to botch their fair share high priority titles also), but people on here always go after Warner Bros. I say talk about being disappointed with this transfer as much as you want, but as should be obvious by the "Why we hate Warners" thread - the rest of us don't care if you plan on boycotting a specific studio or not, for whatever "noble" purpose you deem necessary. I'm not going to lose sleep because you're never going to buy a copy of Catwoman.

But that's just it. They shouldn't have to look at threads for comments, they should do it right in the first place. It really is that simple. Do it right the first time, there's nothing noble about it, more like integrity. This is not a hard concept to grasp here or a out of place request.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by davcole

Well, at least we'll be able to say we'll hear some amazing thunderous audio before the Extended Editions come out.

Agreed. If there is one positive in all of this, it is the audio which should be fantastic!

[QuasidodoJr]

Originally Posted by Maggot

But that's just it. They shouldn't have to look at threads for comments, they should do it right in the first place. It really is that simple. Do it right the first time, there's nothing noble about it, more like integrity. This is not a hard concept to grasp here or a out of place request.

You do realize they are a business trying to make a profit, right?

Like I said, how are we to know they didn't bother with a costly restoration on the TE cuts because of the Amazon page? Have you taken a look at it?

http://www.amazon.com/Lord-Rings-Picture-Theatrical-Editions/dp/B000X9FLKM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1269658527&sr=8-1

2,362 1 star reviews and it hasn't even released yet. And most of them came well before any reviews had hit the news circuit. If I was WB, I'd say "screw it" also.