Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Theatrical Versions) - April 6, 2010

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Right. Oin and a group of dwarves found the passage to the west gate of Moria and apparently foolishly went outside where the Watcher in the Water killed him. Before the lake existed at that entrance, a road ran from the west gate of Moria to the Elven city of Ost-in-Edhil, where Celebrimbor made the three Elven rings. The west gate of Moria was shut by the dwarves of Durin's reign when Sauron came to get the rings and destroyed Eregion. Elrond left that area at that time and founded Rivendell.

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Yes, Balin foolishly led a group of dwarves from the Lonely Mountain (of Hobbit fame) to Moria about 30 years before the events of the movies. His reign as "Lord of Moria" lasted about five years before they disturbed the Balrog while mining mithril, and were killed. I'm not exactly sure of how you would state the cousin-relationship, but Balin's grandfather Farin was Gimli's great-grandfather. Bilbo would have been saddened by his death, because Balin visited Bilbo on occasion after the events of the Hobbit.

Originally Posted by radagast

Elvish? Moria was a Dwarvish place. There were Elvish letters on the door. The passage about Oin was in the book that Gandalf found, and read aloud, in the chamber where Balin's tomb was.

Originally Posted by snowball_iv

Ya they were cousins. Fundin and Groin were brothers, Groin had Gloin and Gloin had Gimli, and Fundin had Balin.

A awesome website that i always use to look up Lord of the Rings facts and names is The Encycolpedia of Arda

So I guess they were second cousins or whatever you call that. Thanks for the heads-up on the "LoTR wiki".

[snowball_iv]

No problem, so is this your first time reading The Hobbit?

[Batman1980]

First time in about 20 years, I think. Just reading it on the toilet for now, will probably really get into it soon and read it properly.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Yes, Balin foolishly led a group of dwarves from the Lonely Mountain (of Hobbit fame) to Moria about 30 years before the events of the movies. His reign as "Lord of Moria" lasted about five years before they disturbed the Balrog while mining mithril, and were killed. I'm not exactly sure of how you would state the cousin-relationship, but Balin's grandfather Farin was Gimli's great-grandfather. Bilbo would have been saddened by his death, because Balin visited Bilbo on occasion after the events of the Hobbit.

The thing that sounds strange to me is that Legolas mentions the dwarves awakening an evil in Moria, while they are in Lorien. But he makes it sound like it was a long time ago, whereas Balin's group coming across the Balrog was a relatively recent thing. I guess he was talking about the Balrog as Durin's Bane. But did the Balrog in Moria get awakened twice?

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by radagast

The thing that sounds strange to me is that Legolas mentions the dwarves awakening an evil in Moria, while they are in Lorien. But he makes it sound like it was a long time ago, whereas Balin's group coming across the Balrog was a relatively recent thing. I guess he was talking about the Balrog as Durin's Bane. But did the Balrog in Moria get awakened twice?

It may be that he means the Goblins or the Orcs and not Morgoth's general the Balrog at all.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by radagast

The thing that sounds strange to me is that Legolas mentions the dwarves awakening an evil in Moria, while they are in Lorien. But he makes it sound like it was a long time ago, whereas Balin's group coming across the Balrog was a relatively recent thing. I guess he was talking about the Balrog as Durin's Bane. But did the Balrog in Moria get awakened twice?

The first confrontation of the Balrog and the Dwarves that occurs in Moria happens during the reign of Durin. The only thing that Tolkien tells us about that event comes from "The Tale of Years": In the year Third Age 1980 "a Balrog appears in Moria and slays Durin VI". It could be that at this time the Balrog finally settled in Moria after wandering from the destruction of Thangorodrim in the First Age. The second confrontation was definitely a result of the Dwarves "delving too deep" for mithril, the most valuable substance in the world, 24 years before the Fellowship enters Lothlorien. It is because of this that the Elves are angry at the Dwarves and Celeborn bad-mouths Gimli.

[tvine2000]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Yeah, the AQ is completely overlooked. PQ is only half the HD experience!

i don't think the aq is overlooked. pq is still the big selling point with blu-ray.after all the first thing people notice is the pq.not everyone has a/v receivers. just a hdtv with the tvs sound.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by ckenisell

I know this has probably already been discussed, but the box art shows DTS-HD Master Audio 6.1. But, I am using an Oppo BDP-83 in bitstream mode and my Integra DTC9.8 is showing DTS-HD 5.1. I am definitely not hearing anything out of the rear channels.

What's the deal? I was really looking forward to 6.1 surround sound.

Oh yeah, I don't want to have to use post processing to get a 5.1 bitstream into a 7.1 output within the receiver.

Since you have the option of decoding DTS-HD MA in either the Oppo or the Integra, what does your display show when you decode in the Oppo?

[PeterTHX]

[QUOTE=raygendreau;3157509]How do you reconcile your statement with the definitions shown on the DTS link in my post? DTS-HD MA is by definition discrete.[quote]

DTS-MA on BD can be anywhere from 1.0 mono to 7.1. There are several titles that are 2.0 Surround. That isn't "discrete".

This shows mandatory max bit rates of 1.509 mbps for DTS-ES and 24.5 mbps for DT-HD MA.

Max bitrates have nothing to do with what is on the LOTR discs.

The bit rate for FOTR averages around 4.7 on my display in the first chapter so I don't think it is DTS-ES.

ES has been discussed earlier in the thread (do a search). Many Disney titles use 5.1 ES, such as the new Toy Story BDs.

Were the studio masters referred to here 5.1??

5.1 with a matrix encoded 6th surround back channel. They played theatrically in Dolby Digital EX and what we are getting on disc is exactly what they should be.

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Since you have the option of decoding DTS-HD MA in either the Oppo or the Integra, what does your display show when you decode in the Oppo?

Both OPPO and Integra are crippled with the "DTS Essentials" decoders which ignore the ES flag. Unless the sound is truly discrete 6.1, like on X-MEN: The Last Stand you won't get sound from the surround back channels unless you use the receiver's post processing.

The DTS decoder in the PS3 recognizes and decodes 5.1 ES matrix.

[raygendreau]

[QUOTE=PeterTHX;3158201][QUOTE=raygendreau;3157509]How do you reconcile your statement with the definitions shown on the DTS link in my post? DTS-HD MA is by definition discrete.

DTS-MA on BD can be anywhere from 1.0 mono to 7.1. There are several titles that are 2.0 Surround. That isn't "discrete".



Max bitrates have nothing to do with what is on the LOTR discs.



ES has been discussed earlier in the thread (do a search). Many Disney titles use 5.1 ES, such as the new Toy Story BDs.



5.1 with a matrix encoded 6th surround back channel. They played theatrically in Dolby Digital EX and what we are getting on disc is exactly what they should be.



Both OPPO and Integra are crippled with the "DTS Essentials" decoders which ignore the ES flag. Unless the sound is truly discrete 6.1, like on X-MEN: The Last Stand you won't get sound from the surround back channels unless you use the receiver's post processing.

The DTS decoder in the PS3 recognizes and decodes 5.1 ES matrix.

The back of The Last Stand lists the audio as 6.1 DTS ES HD Master Audio which you say is truly discrete. I just finished playing the first 5 minutes while watching the display. It displays as DTS HD MA 6.1 and the bit rate was averaging around 4.8 mbps, which is the same display I get playing any of the LOTR BDs (on LOTR I have seen peaks in the battle scenes at 5.8 mbps.

The back of the LOTR trilogy lists the audio as DTS-HD MA 6.1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...1404842&sr=1-1

I am amazed that quality components like the Oppo and Integra wont do what my old fat 60 gig PS3 and a cheap Sony STR-DG 720 7.1 rcvr wont do.
My receiver doesn't have internal decoders for DTS HD MA or Dolby True HD.

[jonmoz]

The Lord of the rings is listed as 6.1,but it's matrix not discrete so in effect it's a 5.1 track,the only way you will get sound from your rear effect speakers is to use your recievers processing.

Bear in mind the rear effect sound is made up from the left and right surround speaker channels,so letting your reciever do this is no big deal,as the sound is not true 6.1 anyway.

This is no different to the Dolby digital 5.1 EX track used on the Dvd's and in theatres,the problem lies with Dts having two 6.1 ES formats when only one of them is 6.1,you should not hear any difference using your recievers processing.I use my Onkyo's Thx Ultra 2 setting which converts the sound to 7.1,but as i said before it's still only a 5.1 track.

[mjbethancourt]

I think someone might be getting confused about the whole dts-es and bitrate thing. Dts-es HD does not have the same bitrate limitations as the standard dts-es you would find on a DVD.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

The first confrontation of the Balrog and the Dwarves that occurs in Moria happens during the reign of Durin. The only thing that Tolkien tells us about that event comes from "The Tale of Years": In the year Third Age 1980 "a Balrog appears in Moria and slays Durin VI". It could be that at this time the Balrog finally settled in Moria after wandering from the destruction of Thangorodrim in the First Age. The second confrontation was definitely a result of the Dwarves "delving too deep" for mithril, the most valuable substance in the world, 24 years before the Fellowship enters Lothlorien. It is because of this that the Elves are angry at the Dwarves and Celeborn bad-mouths Gimli.

So in other words, the dwarves didn't learn anything from their first encounter with the balrog.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by radagast

So in other words, the dwarves didn't learn anything from their first encounter with the balrog.

It was a steep lesson to learn about greed.

[radagast]

The price at Fry's Electronics WAS at $59.77 until today. Now it's up to $63 and change. It will be interesting to see if there is a big drop the 2nd week, if the price remains that high. One thing I'm not excited about is having only 3 discs out of 9 being BR.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by BankytheHack

It sounds like the baggage you carried into the films is the problem, not the films themselves. Filmmakers can't be slaves to the original material simply to placate fans. As I've said before, movies are not books, and books are not movies. What might work in the book, might not work in the movie.

It's better to be a slave to a masterpiece like LoTR than to put idiotic Hollywood schlock in it's place. It isn't simply to placate fans. It's to make a better story. Merry and Pippin being determined not to let Frodo face leaving the Shire alone. Bilbo at the Council of Elrond. Gandalf NOT being knocked off his horse by the Witch-King. I could go on and on. Those book elements would have made a better story and a better movie. You are wrong if you think those kinds of things wouldn't have worked in Jackson's movie.

Your comment about "baggage" is ridiculous. Your baggage is that you are willing to accept any flaws in Jackson's version because of other things you do like.

Just because Kubrick may have made a movie that was better than the book, that doesn't mean Jackson succeeded in doing the same. He didn't. As a matter of fact, The Shining has a "shining" example of what I'm talking about. Jack didn't kill Dick Hallorann in the book. Having Hallorann killed in the movie didn't make the movie better. It was an unneccessary change for the sake of Hollywoodism.

Movies made from Tom Clancy's books are a great example. The ending in Patriot Games was better in the book. Far better. But the moviemakers took the easy way out and had a stupid boat chase.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by deeman54

They don't care about the EE lovers why do you think they are pushing it so far back.

Because they are waiting for Blu-Ray to obtain deeper market penetration, and they will use the EE release to promote the Hobbit.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Because they are waiting for Blu-Ray to obtain deeper market penetration, and they will use the EE release to promote the Hobbit.

Actually I think it's the other way around. The Hobbit is almost guaranteed to be the biggest movie of the year it comes out. The frenzy over the movie will promote interest in people buying the EE edition. I do agree that Blu-ray also will have better market presence and will be another good reason for the timing.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by radagast

One thing I'm not excited about is having only 3 discs out of 9 being BR.

3 discs out of 9 being BD: definitely stole some of the thunder from "the big Blu-ray release". I can't help but think WB could have done better. There are people in my office that bought Blu-ray players just for this release - and they are still watching all of the special features on DVD!

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

3 discs out of 9 being BD: definitely stole some of the thunder from "the big Blu-ray release". I can't help but think WB could have done better. There are people in my office that bought Blu-ray players just for this release - and they are still watching all of the special features on DVD!

Were those extras made in HD? Nonetheless, I think the quality of the features are more important than whether they're in HD or not.