Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Theatrical Versions) - April 6, 2010

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

On Playing the disc the Pioneers display shows Dts Master audio 5.1 at a varible bitrate of between 3-6 Mbps. Quote
Does your Pioneer have the DTS-HD MA firmware update noted in these specifications from Pioneer? Apparently Pioneer decided to pay DTS licensing fees for DTS-HD-MA sometime after it was introduced.

No. DTS didn't have the decoding solution in place for over a year after DTS-MA discs came on the market. A BD player must have sufficient horsepower to decode the stream. Pioneer finally got the decoding solution and added it via firmware, just as Sony and the PS3 did. It wasn't a matter of "paying licensing fees".

Actually, the limitation in bitrate is a contractual requirement agreed to by DTS and the player and receiver manufacturers. Think of it as the difference in price for connection speeds from your ISP. The higher the speed, the higher the price. So, yes, the limitation actually occurs in the receiver’s DSP and is dependent on the license agreement between DTS and the manufacturer.

What's with the talk of bitrates and all?
It's a matter of horsepower (DSP) if you're able to decode DTS-MA. DTS lossy is relatively simple to decode, but DTS-MA requires more computing power than most simple decoders can provide.

Take TrueHD. It's pretty simple to decode it, and most first generation BD players were capable of decoding it with a firmware update. The PS3 was TrueHD out of the box. DTS did not have their decoding software ready, and when they did it was discovered a lot of DSPs were incapable of handling the computing power needed. So they enabled the players to read the bitstream and send it to another device for decode. It's only been in the last year and a half with DSP chips getting faster and cheaper have you seen players with native decoding.

In the end, it's not a licensing issue.

[beanham22]

Originally Posted by radagast

Okay. I do not want to re-start an argument here. So I have a question. Did anyone here buy LoTR on Blu from Canada? There it is being distributed by Alliance, which is Universal. If so, are you happy with the quality of the discs? Do they play okay in your BR player? If someone has already mentioned this (I'm not talking about the argument about Alliance) I apologize, because I missed it in the deluge of posts in this thread.

I got them from Canada they play and look fine in my ps3.

My favourite Sean Bean role is Alec Trevalyn from Golden Eye, imo the only worthy Bond Villian post Dalton.

Also I have a question for Grand Bob and maybe others if they can answer.

How does Sam get the ring before rescuing Frodo from Cirith Ungol (sp?). Is it just not shown in the theatrical release? I always assumed that Frodo dropped in Shelob's lair but am not sure.

[ckenisell]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It's a matter of horsepower (DSP) if you're able to decode DTS-MA. DTS lossy is relatively simple to decode, but DTS-MA requires more computing power than most simple decoders can provide.

All of this talk about DTS-HD-MA 5.1 and 6.1 and I STILL can't figure out how to get LOTRs to play in DTS-HD MA 6.1.

I have an Oppo BDP-83 set to bitstream via HDMI to an Integra DTC 9.8 receiver. The reciever displays DTS-HD MA 5.1 and I hear nothing from my back speakers. The box shows 6.1. Why am I not getting 6.1?

Thanks!

[phansson]

Originally Posted by ckenisell

All of this talk about DTS-HD-MA 5.1 and 6.1 and I STILL can't figure out how to get LOTRs to play in DTS-HD MA 6.1.

I have an Oppo BDP-83 set to bitstream via HDMI to an Integra DTC 9.8 receiver. The reciever displays DTS-HD MA 5.1 and I hear nothing from my back speakers. The box shows 6.1. Why am I not getting 6.1?

Thanks!

Same boat.....exactly.....

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by beanham22

How does Sam get the ring before rescuing Frodo from Cirith Ungol (sp?). Is it just not shown in the theatrical release? I always assumed that Frodo dropped in Shelob's lair but am not sure.

Sam takes the Ring off of Frodo in the pass between Shelob's Lair and the tower because he assumes Frodo is dead and feels as though it is his duty to complete the quest. It is only after hearing the orcs who take Frodo to the tower that he realizes Frodo is only poisoned, and therefore his main effort, of course, becomes one of rescue.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Sam takes the Ring off of Frodo in the pass between Shelob's Lair and the tower because he assumes Frodo is dead and feels as though it is his duty to complete the quest. It is only after hearing the orcs who take Frodo to the tower that he realizes Frodo is only poisoned, and therefore his main effort, of course, becomes one of rescue.

Wasn't it when Sam heard the orcs talking about Frodo in Cirith Ungol that he realized he wasn't dead after all?

[Underworld54]

Originally Posted by ckenisell

All of this talk about DTS-HD-MA 5.1 and 6.1 and I STILL can't figure out how to get LOTRs to play in DTS-HD MA 6.1.

I have an Oppo BDP-83 set to bitstream via HDMI to an Integra DTC 9.8 receiver. The reciever displays DTS-HD MA 5.1 and I hear nothing from my back speakers. The box shows 6.1. Why am I not getting 6.1?

Thanks!

Do you have a feature on your receiver where you can Matrix the soundtrack to give you back speaker sound? The option would be Dolby Pro Logic Movie llx or it may be listed as PLllx Movie. You should have something like that.

[aggienader08]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Once more into the breach, dear friends. Peter Jackson recently had this to say about the 'LotR' Blu-ray release in an interview:

Michael Kung: The theatrical cut of the “Lord of the Rings” Trilogy was just released on Blu-ray, and dedicated fans are purposefully giving the set one-star reviews on Amazon and other online marketplaces because they want the extended version on Blu-ray. How you do you navigate fans like that?

Peter Jackson: I agree with the fans. I was heavily involved in the DVD process when the films were being released through New Line, but now that Warner Brothers has taken control over the releasing of the films, they just tell me what they’re doing and don’t involve me in the process. [With New Line,] the one thing we never did with the fans was make them feel cheated. Back in the original release, we always put extra material in, extra documentaries — a lot of added value. I so totally understand why the fans would be upset; I don’t disagree with them.

Thank you for posting that Ken! That's really interesting that Peter Jackson would throw WB under the bus, and also hilarious. WB will hopefully one day soon get their come-uppins, at least I hope so.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Fors*

Wasn't it when Sam heard the orcs talking about Frodo in Cirith Ungol that he realized he wasn't dead after all?

Right. In the book, while Sam is wearing the Ring, he hears the orcs in a passage of Shelob's Lair conversing that Frodo is alive, but is unable to catch up with them before they enter a door at the back of the Tower of Cirith Ungol. In the movie,

[Show spoiler] instead of listening while he is wearing the ring, he hears them in the pass while he is hiding, but waits until they are in the tower to act. In the movie, Sam never wears the Ring.

[Brodo Faggins]

Originally Posted by aggienader08

Thank you for posting that Ken! That's really interesting that Peter Jackson would throw WB under the bus, and also hilarious. WB will hopefully one day soon get their come-uppins, at least I hope so.

Sounds like shire-folk to me.

[Q?]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Right. In the book, while Sam is wearing the Ring, he hears the orcs in a passage of Shelob's Lair conversing that Frodo is alive, but is unable to catch up with them before they enter a door at the back of the Tower of Cirith Ungol. In the movie,

[Show spoiler] instead of listening while he is wearing the ring, he hears them in the pass while he is hiding, but waits until they are in the tower to act. In the movie, Sam never wears the Ring.

[Show spoiler]What? He wore the ring with no problems?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by ckenisell

All of this talk about DTS-HD-MA 5.1 and 6.1 and I STILL can't figure out how to get LOTRs to play in DTS-HD MA 6.1.

I have an Oppo BDP-83 set to bitstream via HDMI to an Integra DTC 9.8 receiver. The reciever displays DTS-HD MA 5.1 and I hear nothing from my back speakers. The box shows 6.1. Why am I not getting 6.1?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by phansson

Same boat.....exactly.....

Both the OPPO and the Integra (pretty much a pre-amp version of my Onkyo TX-NR905) are crippled with "Essentials" decoders. You both are stuck, unless (like me) you also have a PS3. My OPPO is the primary BD player, but for Disney/Pixar discs and some others with DTS-MA 5.1 ES I use the PS3.

For the Integra use THX Ultra2 Cinema mode. You should get something out of the back surrounds. I know both you and I aren't ready to drop another $2k just to get ES on a few titles.

Of course if Warner had stuck with Dolby TrueHD EX we'd be good.

[phansson]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Both the OPPO and the Integra (pretty much a pre-amp version of my Onkyo TX-NR905) are crippled with "Essentials" decoders. You both are stuck, unless (like me) you also have a PS3. My OPPO is the primary BD player, but for Disney/Pixar discs and some others with DTS-MA 5.1 ES I use the PS3.

For the Integra use THX Ultra2 Cinema mode. You should get something out of the back surrounds. I know both you and I aren't ready to drop another $2k just to get ES on a few titles.

Of course if Warner had stuck with Dolby TrueHD EX we'd be good.

It shows DTS ES on my receiver when playing the EE DVD editions.....

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Q!

[Show spoiler]What? He wore the ring with no problems?

For the most part, yes.

[Show spoiler]This could be due to several reasons. First, because Sam was not interested in wielding the power of the Ring, it had less effect on him, although for a short period of time he had visions of "Sam, the hero of the age", but was saved by his "hobbit sense". He could however, feel the "eye" searching for him, but perhaps it couldn't find him because he spent most of the time wearing it in Shelob's Lair. He did have to put it on again briefly to pass the "watchers at the gate" (statues) to gain entrance to the courtyard of the tower to save Frodo.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by phansson

It shows DTS ES on my receiver when playing the EE DVD editions.....

DTS (lossy) ES and DTS-MA ES are 2 different codecs.

[whitearrow]

Originally Posted by radagast

Meaning it was politically correct to involve Arwen more.

I disagree that "political correctness" was the motivating factor here. The story already has a kickass woman character in Eowyn, and a truly powerful, smarter-than-most-of-the-men character in Galadriel.

I think the driving purpose of involving Arwen more was to bring focus to Aragorn's story, which is why in the films he has all these doubts about the idea of becoming king. In the books, he knows that is his destiny all along, knows that he wants Arwen, and she knows that she will stay -- it's all sort of a done deal but for actually winning the war.

In the films, it's a journey that allows Aragorn a much more human side than he has in the books -- he has doubts, a lot of them, about his own role, the dual pride (Elendil) and shame (Isildur) he feels in his heritage, whether Arwen is better off living a short life with him than an eternal one with her people, etc.

Arwen brings all that stuff into focus, and giving her a great entrance is a smart way to introduce the character as someone who really is Aragorn's equal, which, let's face it, she doesn't come across as in the books. (It also prevents introducing a character for one scene who basically disappears shortly thereafter.) And hey, she's a 2500+ year old elf from a long line of warriors. Her mother was kidnapped by orcs. There's no reason to believe that she can't ride a horse and swing a sword if she had to.

I admit there were characters from the books I missed seeing in the films -- Elladan and Elrohir and Prince Imrahil were at the top of the list.

[Q?]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

For the most part, yes.

[Show spoiler]This could be due to several reasons. First, because Sam was not interested in wielding the power of the Ring, it had less effect on him, although for a short period of time he had visions of "Sam, the hero of the age", but was saved by his "hobbit sense". He could however, feel the "eye" searching for him, but perhaps it couldn't find him because he spent most of the time wearing it in Shelob's Lair. He did have to put it on again briefly to pass the "watchers at the gate" (statues) to gain entrance to the courtyard of the tower to save Frodo.

[Show spoiler]The thing I'm wondering about, was Frodo really the perfect choice for being the one carrying the ring? the good thing he did was showing mercy to Gollum and carrying the ring for such a long time, but sounds to me that Samwise could've easily done the same?

And thanks

[jonmoz]

If your Blu-ray player like my Pioneer Bdp-09fd sends a 5.1 Dts master audio signal to your reciever like my onkyo Tx-sr875 via its Hdmi Bitstream all you have to do is apply one of your recievers post processing modes to convert this into 7.1.

For example THX ULTRA 2,DOLBY SURROUND EX,or even Dolby PRO-LOGIC 2 can be used to achive this.

As long as your Blu-ray player's Hdmi bitstream outputs the Dts Master audio 5.1 signal at a variable bitrate of 3-6 Mbps rather than the fixed base codec of 1.5 Mbps,there will be little difference between this and the Dts 6.1 es matrix soundtrack as this is not a true 6.1 audio track anyway,the extra channel is created using the surround left and right speakers then it's duplicated creating the extra sound channel,so your recievers post processing modes will do the same job.

If of course the Lotr soundtrack was a Dts master audio 6.1 es discreate soundtrack your recievers post processing will not be nessasary as this is a true 6.1 audio format with 7 individual sound channels,and your reciever will recognise and decode this.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Q!

[Show spoiler]The thing I'm wondering about, was Frodo really the perfect choice for being the one carrying the ring? the good thing he did was showing mercy to Gollum and carrying the ring for such a long time, but sounds to me that Samwise could've easily done the same?

And thanks

I think the malice shown by Sam towards Gollum is exactly why Sam wouldn't have been a good choice. Plus, it really didn't matter did it, as it was Bilbo who ultimately got to choose who to pass the ring onto? I don't know if Gandalf could have altered who Bilbo decided to bear the ring? What do you think Grand Bob?

[raygendreau]

[QUOTE=PeterTHX;3173781]No. DTS didn't have the decoding solution in place for over a year after DTS-MA discs came on the market. A BD player must have sufficient horsepower to decode the stream. Pioneer finally got the decoding solution and added it via firmware, just as Sony and the PS3 did. It wasn't a matter of "paying licensing fees". [QUOTE]

The HD-MA Suite is licensed software. It is used to encode media in the studio.

And, having just gotten off the phone with Lee Ann in the DTS corporate licensing dept, licensing agreements exist with the player and AVR manufacturers. No details will be provided however on the structure of these agreements. For that information, I would have to fill out the licensing application which can be found at DTS.com.

Dolby is a little more forthcoming on their licensing info:

http://www.dolby.com/professional/te...-licensed.html