8K discussion thread

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

You forget, the lower the resolution, the less inherent motion blur. That was already covered.

I'm not forgetting. I'm saying combined with the other improvements it won't matter much.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

You forget, the lower the resolution, the less inherent motion blur. That was already covered.

I don't see your argument going anywhere.

[JohnAV]

Toronto 8K - YouTube

30Hz

[LordoftheRings]

Flagship 8K Denon AV receiver ... 2,500 squids (US currency)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JSJ...ature=youtu.be

Do we need it? I sure do for being full 8K bullet-proof into the future ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rljC...ature=youtu.be

And WHO knows what's coming up to replace Dolby Atmos. ...Dolby 8K Utmost?

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

When VHS came out we had a infinite amount of content to sell to consumers.

When LD came out we had a infinite amount of content to sell to consumers.

When DVD came out we had a infinite amount of content to sell to consumers.

When BD came out we had slightly less than an infinite amount of content to sell to consumers.

When UHD-BD came out we had a little less then an infinite amount of content to sell to consumers.

We have no 8K content to sell consumers other than a few hundred 65mm production movies.

Yes Hollywood is beginning to shoot movies with 8K cameras but not with the intention of developing an 8K format. Strictly for editing option purposes to create a better 4K DI. Hollywood is leaning more towards 6K cameras for the same purpose.

This guy gets it......

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I don't see your argument going anywhere.

Is that a turtle spinning @ 78 revolutions per minute on a platter?
Poor little pet, she must have the vertigo. ...That's kind of cruel no?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

We are already seeing 8K displays and A/V receivers with 8K HDMI inputs. No company makes a 8K HDMI input unless they plan on connecting a external 8K source like a 8K camcorder or a 8K optical disc player. There is a strong possibility that around the year 2026 that a 8K optical disc format might be released. Also around 2026 8K satellite boxes, 8K cable boxes, 8K videogame systems, and 8K streaming boxes might be released.

There is a strong possibility that high quality disc will be dead by 2026, at least as any kind of mass-manufactured format. Into that niche indie realm there is no chance in hell that the powers that be will spend the many millions needed to either update the BD spec (again) or develop a new high capacity disc format. And no, all those magical archival holo-optical discs that people are always itching to link to don't count.

There will be no 8K Blu-ray format. 8K content? For sure, on a variety of platforms.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There is a strong possibility that high quality disc will be dead by 2026, at least as any kind of mass-manufactured format. Into that niche indie realm there is no chance in hell that the powers that be will spend the many millions needed to either update the BD spec (again) or develop a new high capacity disc format. And no, all those magical archival holo-optical discs that people are always itching to link to don't count.

There will be no 8K Blu-ray format. 8K content? For sure, on a variety of platforms.

You can't scale data centers dramatically, so come up with alternatives then. (power consumption)

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

You can't scale data centers dramatically, so come up with alternatives then. (power consumption)

Switch over to VVC compression codec. Instant 50% reduction.

[Geoff D]

Yeah, and as the streaming future is where we're headed (like it or not) then squirting 8K down that pipe with VVC or whatever codec comes after that or whatever codec comes after that will be easy peasy. I ain't saying it'll look amazing, but that's streaming for you.

"How comes it's not so easy to put it onto 8K disc then?" WINKY FACE

Because you can't just slap a new codec and 8K resolution onto a BD and call it a day. There are two dozen companies and manufacturers that make up the BDA and they all have to agree on this stuff to take it forward, it's why 4K disc itself took a bit longer than it should have because they were busy wrangling over the name, the specs and anything else under the Blu-ray sun, as well as having their tech groups investigate and evaluate the available codecs, HDR formats etc. Then you'll need new playback hardware as this stuff won't be able to be retrofitted to existing 4K players and the options amongst manufacturers are starting to dwindle, Samsung having exited the market completely as we know.

It takes time, it takes money, and I just can't see who would be insane enough to want to spend that to make 8K disc happen when 4K disc itself makes up a tiny percentage of the overall physical disc market share. 8K disc's take-up would be lesser still and "if they knew then what they know now" I think they wouldn't even have bothered with 4K disc, I really don't. It came too late to try and grab any meaningful share of the physical media market as streaming had already taken hold, Sony wanted to launch 4K disc as early as 2014 (having debuted their 4K TVs a year or two before) to capitalise on the 4K hype but, as said, shit happens.

[Lee A Stewart]

Strike while the iron is red hot, not when it's luke warm.

Those 2 extra years may have made a difference in the adoption of UHD-BD but . . . probably not that much. UHD-BD was always going to be a collectors format. That's why the number of UHD-BD releases pales in comparison to BD.

Just a note on VVC . . . the required bandwidth Using HEVC Table 10 for 8K is 100 mbps (25 for UHD). VVC promises to reduce those by 50% and still maintain a quality presentation. NHK is using HEVC Table 10 for their SAT 8K feed.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Strike while the iron is red hot, not when it's luke warm.

Those 2 extra years may have made a difference in the adoption of UHD-BD but . . . probably not that much. UHD-BD was always going to be a collectors format. That's why the number of UHD-BD releases pales in comparison to BD.

Just a note on VVC . . . the required bandwidth Using HEVC Table 10 for 8K is 100 mbps (25 for UHD). VVC promises to reduce those by 50% and still maintain a quality presentation. NHK is using HEVC Table 10 for their SAT 8K feed.

All that requires it be incorporated into hardware. Before we get in the discussion of this will do wonders, you need to look at what is supported with this new gear. Adding more codecs support as part of the TV, or player or being recognized and passthrough a AVR is not a drop dunk.

see 3 New Codecs Are Coming in 2020. What Does it Mean for Creators? - NoFilm School 3/12/20

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Ateme, SES Collaborate on UHD Satellite Transmission Using VVC

https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/at...sion-using-vvc

And what a perfect application for VVC. Build it into the external tuners people are going to have to buy to get ATSC 3.0 on their current TVs.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Strike while the iron is red hot, not when it's luke warm.

Those 2 extra years may have made a difference in the adoption of UHD-BD but . . . probably not that much. UHD-BD was always going to be a collectors format. That's why the number of UHD-BD releases pales in comparison to BD.

Just a note on VVC . . . the required bandwidth Using HEVC Table 10 for 8K is 100 mbps (25 for UHD). VVC promises to reduce those by 50% and still maintain a quality presentation. NHK is using HEVC Table 10 for their SAT 8K feed.

Aye, I didn't say it would've helped UHD disc to take over the world, but a couple of years' headstart and actually timing its launch alongside 4K TVs wouldn't have hurt.

[peterv]

So the consensus seems to be:

- 8K when it finally comes is going to be heavily compressed and knowing the difference in sound and image quality between 4K streaming and physical disc, this does not bode well for film buffs who just want to own the absolute best they can get.

- 8K content streamed over the internet over and over again is going to cost an incredible amount of energy, which we really don't have if we want to keep the planet alive.

All this sounds like there will be a bright future for 4K Ultra HD discs after all

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by peterv

So the consensus seems to be:

- 8K when it finally comes is going to be heavily compressed and knowing the difference in sound and image quality between 4K streaming and physical disc, this does not bode well for film buffs who just want to own the absolute best they can get.

- 8K content streamed over the internet over and over again is going to cost an incredible amount of energy, which we really don't have if we want to keep the planet alive.

All this sounds like there will be a bright future for 4K Ultra HD discs after all

Yeah it kinda does.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by peterv

So the consensus seems to be:

- 8K when it finally comes is going to be heavily compressed and knowing the difference in sound and image quality between 4K streaming and physical disc, this does not bode well for film buffs who just want to own the absolute best they can get.

- 8K content streamed over the internet over and over again is going to cost an incredible amount of energy, which we really don't have if we want to keep the planet alive.

All this sounds like there will be a bright future for 4K Ultra HD discs after all

One of ATSC 3.0's formats is 8K. Each new 3.0 channel has a max bandwidth of 57 mbps - a substantial increase over 1.0's 19.7 mbps.

It is possible, though highly doubtful that OTA broadcasters could once again lead the high resolution content with 8K broadcasts like they did back in 1996 with the first HD content.

[Penton-Man]

too funny, so with all this recent discussion wrt 8K and movies, I’d imagine everyone has now completely dismissed this study? –
https://www.techhive.com/article/352...ifference.html

[HDTV1080P]

The following article is an interesting read. There is an 8K TV Association and certification logo so that consumers that see that logo on their 8K display will know they are purchasing a quality 8K display. It is disappointing that the 8K association of companies decided not to make the 3D feature mandatory. Hopefully around 10+ years from now the 16K association of companies will agree to make it mandatory for 16K displays to have some type of 3D feature (each company that makes 16K displays would decide rather to use active glasses, passive glasses, or glass free 3D technology if the 3D feature was made mandatory in 16K displays).

Getting back to the year 2020. According to the following article they are claiming that within 2 years a major streaming provider might start offering movies in native 8K quality. However, things can get delayed and it might be 3+ years before native movies are offered in 8K quality. Companies like Netflix have been using 8K digital cameras and are ideal for offering 8K movies. The existing HEVC codec is used for both the 2016 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray format and the new ATSC 3.0 over the air broadcast system. Bit rates for 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs peak at 128Mbps and ATSC 3.0 broadcasts peak at 57Mbps (ATSC 3.0 also has the capability of using 8K resolution with the HEVC codec) However better quality and more efficient video codecs might be created for streaming, satellite TV, cable TV, videogame systems, and possible even a new 8K optical disc format in 2026. However many articles when talking about 8K are only mentioning streaming, ATSC 3.0, satellite/cable TV channels, videogame systems, and no mention of a 8K optical disc format. But seeing a 8K DVD format with a legacy 480i DVD layer is a possibility or instead a 8K Blu-ray format or other 8K optical disc format that uses up to 2TB of storage with lossless video and audio would be a videophiles dream. 8K optical disc format would need to appear on the market by around 2026, and it would need to have better quality when compared to 8K streaming. If not then physical media would most likely slowly die as people with 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs switch to 8K steaming to get the best picture quality from 8K VUDU and 8K Netflix. But for 8K streaming to replace Blu-ray disc and all physical media, 8K streaming would need to also offer lossless audio.

Select quotes from the article:

“Our goal with the 8K Association Certified logo program is to offer a logo that consumers can look for knowing that any 8K TV that carries the logo will provide a high-quality 8K experience.”

“8K technology is about much more than 33 million pixels. Although the quantity of pixels is four times greater than 4K UHD resolution, the quality of those pixels and the dramatically better visual experience that can be delivered are the real benefit. “

“We believe that like 4K, streaming will lead the way with 8K adoption. The major streaming service providers are not offering an 8K service yet, but we see smaller players entering the market first, paving the way for the bigger players later. 8K will really take off when a major streamer offers a service, which will likely be within the next two years, in our opinion.”

“The standard codec for 8K today is HEVC (high-efficiency video coding), but AV1 is already being used on YouTube for 8K content and the MPEG-based codecs VVC (versatile video coding), EVC (essential video coding), and LCEVC (low complexity enhancement video coding) are all nearing finalization.”

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-entertainment

[Lee A Stewart]

It's unfortunate (at least to me) that when 8K is broken down to all of it's pluses and minuses the final story reads like Hans Christian Andersen's familiar fairy tale:

The Emperor's New Clothes

When I first saw 8K there was no 4K, only HD. I did what everyone else did; stepped right up to the display with my eyes about 10" away and saw no pixels. It was amazing technology. The thought of having access to movies in a resolution on par with 70mm motivated me to begin my journey to create "Lee's IMAX Theater" in the basement of my home.