8K discussion thread

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Vilya

8K TVs will go nowhere unless they become the only type of TV offered. There is virtually no enthusiasm for them, not even here at blu-ray.com.

Worse - what happens when you can't buy one even if you really want one which is going to happen in Europe next year. What good is a format that can't be sold to the public?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Worse - what happens when you can't buy one even if you really want one which is going to happen in Europe next year. What good is a format that can't be sold to the public?

Is this some conserve energy thing?

Well, maybe they can market 8K TVs as "professional grade" products at a slight premium to bypass these restrictions?

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Is this some conserve energy thing?

Well, maybe they can market 8K TVs as "professional grade" products at a slight premium to bypass these restrictions?

Previous page post #2853

[PaulGo]

With the energy problems in Europe, I doubt the EU regulators will back off.

[Dragun]

One hurdle for 8K is that studios can't use it to sell higher quality versions of catalogue titles because the vast majority of them won't benefit from higher quality than what 4K UHD. And even if all the 65mm and VistaVision films were offered in 8K, would the difference even be noticeable on common screen sizes? You'd need an extremely large screen before 4K HDR quality starts to be noticeably lacking. Larger than what most people have at home.

[HDTV1080P]

It depends on the film stock technology that was used. Some 35mm film needs 8K scans and 70mm and 65mm film needs a minimum of 16K scans. One could develop a higher resolution 100mm film format that requires 32K scans to capture everything. Then there is the issue in the future the Hollywood and streaming studios using 8K cameras with 8K digital masters coming very soon for new releases instead of old 20th Century films. Digital cameras within 10 years will be using 16K and one day 32K. Some sea creatures and animals will benefit from the improved resolution, but the human eye might need a upgrade at the local hospital so higher resolutions can be seen.

If scientist get friendly artificial intelligence involved, then technology might get speeded up much more rapidly than what one could ever imagine.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Dragun

One hurdle for 8K is that studios can't use it to sell higher quality versions of catalogue titles because the vast majority of them won't benefit from higher quality than what 4K UHD. And even if all the 65mm and VistaVision films were offered in 8K, would the difference even be noticeable on common screen sizes? You'd need an extremely large screen before 4K HDR quality starts to be noticeably lacking. Larger than what most people have at home.

Yep, and something people don't realise about all them old 65mm and VistaVision epics is that the film stock of the time wasn't as sharp as what we have now. Some professionals have even said that the resolving power of today's 35mm is akin to 65mm from, say, 60 years ago, and with the grain in Lawrence of Arabia's 4K HDR looking very chunky and 35mm-ish I can believe it. The 10 Commandments is another example, despite being shot on 8-perf VV and having a 6K restoration there's only a tiny fraction of extra detail in the UHD vs the BD.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

They make displays for whomever is wealthy enough to buy them.

We know nothing about their customers or what purpose they had in mind for their 370" TV.

you were the one making assumption on its use with

The Titan Zeus is just a gigantic TV for the rich

and

it is not a professional product such as what a movie studio would use.

funny how when I brought up the obvious (does not make sense for home use) the use becomes irrelevant. I don't know who has bought one but I think a studio buying one for their 100+ screening room makes more sense than some billionaire's HT

I never said "limited." I said "such as" and gave an example of professional use.

sorry for putting words in your mouth, did not mean to but without a full list it is kind of a useless argument. eitrher way (continue after quote)

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Your words EXACTLY: Professional Grade. That denotes studio monitors. Not those displays used for movie and TV production ala The Mandalorian and the Samsung MicroLED stages.

I apologies for any misunderstanding I played in the discussion. In my mind it is simple the industry divides the market into two categories. Consumer grades and professional grade.

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/prof...roduct-line-up


the direct view started to monitor the results of other electronic equipment vconnected to them (like RADAR), many years later someone had the idea of sending entertainment over the air for entertainment NTSC (here in NA) was created and the consumer market/grade was born with direct view displays with a built in B&W tuner called TVs.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Anyone who can afford to buy a TV that costs $1.7 million dollars can afford to have it installed in their home even if it means removing a section of the roof and lowering it in by crane. A person that rich could also have an entire new room added to their home designed especially to accommodate this behemoth.

I am guessing that is true, but do you know if anyone is willing and can afford to do all that?

the company does not sell to consumers. Don't get me wrong I am not saying it is impossible for someone to get an installer that specializes in professional installs (by that I mean installs for entities and not individuals) to look the other way.
In the end consumers that want professional displays have always found a way to circumvent that reality the same way (but more difficult) for an entity to go out to Walmart and buy a consumer grade display.

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Even with those included they don't come anywheres near the 210 MILLION TVs sold world wide in 2021.

But I understand you will never admit defeat in an argument. That's the reason I have zero respect for anything you say. All you care about is being right - not accurate.

what argument? I don't care how many TVs sold in the consumer market and how many monitors sold in the professional market. I don't know why you see it as relevant in any way. The person going to the used car lot only gets to pick from what is in the lot, the person going to Walmart to buy the cheapest TV can't demand a 20$ B&W CRT he can only buy the cheapest one they have, on the other hand the person buying a new high-end car like a person buying a high end display gets the luxury of being demanding and asking for the features he want. What you keep on missing the high-end consumer market is nowhere near the high-end professional market.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I am guessing that is true, but do you know if anyone is willing and can afford to do all that?

the company does not sell to consumers.

If I knew anyone like that I would be on their yacht right now somewhere in the south Pacific...

As to the part that I underlined, you know that for a fact, do you? If I had $1.7 million to spend on a TV they would refuse to sell their product to me because I am just a lowly consumer?

Originally Posted by Anthony P

funny how when I brought up the obvious (does not make sense for home use) the use becomes irrelevant.

Funny how Titan's marketing shows their TV inside of a home then, huh?



"Titan Technology is engineered to create the most extraordinary home viewing experience on the market. "

"The indoor TV range is designed and optimized for the home environment, creating an astonishing picture quality for viewing film, gaming and sport. Our screens are simply the biggest domestic televisions available anywhere."

Sure looks like they sell to us mere (wealthy) consumers and for home use as well.

https://titanscreens.com/indoor.html

^ That link shows that they offer TVs for the home in the following sizes: 173", 196", 251", AND 370".

It is also funny that even this $1.7 million dollar colossus is NOT 8K; apparently not even the very, very rich, or the "professionals", are all that interested in 8K.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Sure looks like they sell to us mere (wealthy) consumers and for home use as well.

https://titanscreens.com/indoor.html

it does look as if they are aming their displays to the consumer market now.
and I agree it makes it a bad example. Maybe I missed or forgot they pivoted and I agree it makes it a bad example but as you can see in the about us us https://titanscreens.com/about-us.html

"the first Titan Screen was built from scratch and became the largest screen ever put into Leicester Square, London in November 2013."

for cannes or the two theatrea s after that you can see they started out on the professional side.

Now from the discussions in the past on a different topic I know you know as well as I do that there are many other veryy expensive solutions out there. But if you need a different example

https://pro.sony/en_CA/products/led-video-walls the price is not there but since they started allowing installers to sell them to consumers you can easily find how high it can go.

It is also funny that even this $1.7 million dollar colossus is NOT 8K; apparently not even the very, very rich, or the "professionals", are all that interested in 8K.

I already pointed that out from the get go.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Try googling Zeus Titan, it is just a 4k display and not even close to the most expensive currently on the market

that being said the Zeus hit the market in 2014 (if I remember correctly) so it is not that surprising it came out as 4k and not 8k.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

that being said the Zeus hit the market in 2014 (if I remember correctly) so it is not that surprising it came out as 4k and not 8k.

That was 8 years ago. I am sure that they have upgraded their TVs many times over that span of years.

It is telling that upgrading to 8K was not among them. They know that their very wealthy customers do not care about 8K any more than the rest of us do.

[Lee A Stewart]

LG launches a new 136" 4K microLED MAGNIT TV in the US

LG Electronics launched a new microLED TV in the US, the LG MAGNIT 4K 136-inch 2000-nits 120Hz Micro LED residential display (LSAD Series). This residential TV is a "luxury residential display' that is powered by LG's latest Alpha 9 AI-enhanced processor and the company's own webOS smart TV platform.

https://www.microled-info.com/lg-lau...d-magnit-tv-us

You see it - no 8K. Only 4K.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

LG launches a new 136" 4K microLED MAGNIT TV in the US

https://www.microled-info.com/lg-lau...d-magnit-tv-us

You see it - no 8K. Only 4K.

As far as I know, all of the extremely premium TVs are 4K.

Those that can afford anything that they want sure don't seem to want 8K. I would think that if there is any market that every wish would be catered to it would be to those that can afford TVs priced in 6-7 figures.

[Robert Zohn]

The only reason you don't see MicroLED displays in 8K is because of the LED dot pitch can't be made any smaller.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

The only reason you don't see MicroLED displays in 8K is because of the LED dot pitch can't be made any smaller.

When are you going to become a Titan Zeus authorized dealer?

More to the point, what percentage of your TV sales are 8K models?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

That was 8 years ago. I am sure that they have upgraded their TVs many times over that span of years.

It is telling that upgrading to 8K was not among them. They know that their very wealthy customers do not care about 8K any more than the rest of us do.

that is a ridiculous comment. If you look at traditional manufacturers there is a reason a TV manufacturer can release A, B, C... all of them the same size but with slightly different features, all you need to do is replace the box with chip X with a box of chip Y that has the extra features. Since they build their own panels to go 8k would mean, at minimum, completely overhauling the production line with equipment that can build an 8k display.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

that is a ridiculous comment. If you look at traditional manufacturers there is a reason a TV manufacturer can release A, B, C... all of them the same size but with slightly different features, all you need to do is replace the box with chip X with a box of chip Y that has the extra features. Since they build their own panels to go 8k would mean, at minimum, completely overhauling the production line with equipment that can build an 8k display.

TV advancements are often quite more involved that just putting a new chip inside the set. That's not a very well thought out statement.

Titan's customers are spending well over $1 million for a TV. Upgrading their production to 8K would certainly be worth it IF their customers actually gave a damn about 8K. They don't. I have no doubt that a company like Titan that indulges the richest of the rich asks their customers what it is that they want in a luxury TV. If their insanely wealthy customers wanted 8K, I bet Titan would deliver it. I suspect that their margins on their $1.7 million TVs are very appealing, too.

None of the TV makers that offer these extreme luxury TVs offer them in 8K. Sony and Samsung already have 8K production lines, yet none of their extreme luxury TVs are offered in 8K because no one who can afford them gives a shite about 8K. 8K resolution is best realized on a jumbo sized display, but even knowing that there is still no interest.

The rich don't want 8K. The "pros" don't want it. The s here at blu-ray.com don't want it. Mainstreet doesn't want it, either. If you think 8K TVs are so wonderful, go buy one and regale us with your review of it.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

TV advancements are often quite more involved that just putting a new chip inside. That's not a very well thought out statement.

I was not talking about advancement but manufacturing. if you can replace the box of parts X with parts Y when the display is assembled that is an easy option to give your customers. that is why, to make it simple, Sony and Samsung have several 65" 4k TVs each.

But since titan makes their own paanels in order to offer 8k they would need a line that can build those 8k pannels. One day maybe they will build one, maybe one day they will retrofit one but just because today thety can't offer an 8k line does not mean that they won't do that one day.

Titan's customers are spending well over $1 million for a TV.

depends on the TV, their most expensive model is 7 digits but they also have some that are not.

Upgrading their production to 8K would certainly be worth it IF their customers actually gave a damn about 8K. They don't. I have no doubt that a company like Titan asks their customers what it is that they want in a million dollar plus TV and clearly 8K is not on that list. I bet their margins on their $1.7 million TVs are very appealing, too.

you are just making a whole lot of assumptions based on your own bias. This is a small shop how do you know if they have or don't have the means to add an 8k line production system.

None of the TV makers that offer these extreme luxury TVs offer them in 8K. Sony and Samsung already have 8K production lines, yet none of their extreme luxury TVs are offered in 8K because no one gives a shite about 8K.

if you would have taken a peek at what I mentioned in the previous post

https://www.sony.com/en_us/SCA/compa...solutions.html

Sony Electronics Inc. today announced the availability of its award-winning Crystal LED display system for home installation. Having initially introduced the technology for use in commercial and entertainment venues, Sony Electronics now offers residential configurations and installation, giving consumers an unrivaled home theater technology capable of displaying [b]8K /b] HDR video content and beyond – up to 16K.
For more information on Crystal LED, please visit:

http://pro.sony/en_GB/change-country...gy/crystal-led

8K resolution is best noticed on a jumbo sized display, too but as no one really cares about it, it is not offered.

I won't disagree with you but I have an HT I don't think it qualifies as jumbo but it is big enough so that 8k will most likely make a difference (i.e there is room for improvement over 4k)

The rich don't want 8K. The "pros" don't want it. The s here at blu-ray.com don't want it. Mainstreet doesn't want it, either.

dpon't know about the rich, but as a pro, nerd and BD.com member I am in this thread because I am interested in 8k. If you are not, why are you even in this thread? just to piss on other's interests?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I was not talking about advancement but manufacturing. if you can replace the box of parts X with parts Y when the display is assembled that is an easy option to give your customers. that is why, to make it simple, Sony and Samsung have several 65" 4k TVs each.

But since titan makes their own paanels in order to offer 8k they would need a line that can build those 8k pannels. One day maybe they will build one, maybe one day they will retrofit one but just because today thety can't offer an 8k line does not mean that they won't do that one day.

depends on the TV, their most expensive model is 7 digits but they also have some that are not.

you are just making a whole lot of assumptions based on your own bias. This is a small shop how do you know if they have or don't have the means to add an 8k line production system.

if you would have taken a peek at what I mentioned in the previous post

https://www.sony.com/en_us/SCA/compa...solutions.html

I won't disagree with you but I have an HT I don't think it qualifies as jumbo but it is big enough so that 8k will most likely make a difference (i.e there is room for improvement over 4k)

dpon't know about the rich, but as a pro, nerd and BD.com member I am in this thread because I am interested in 8k. If you are not, why are you even in this thread? just to piss on other's interests?

I did not price their smaller models. Go large or go home. Still, I bet their smallest TV, a 173" model, is probably well into six figures.

We know nothing about Titan's manufacturing capabilities, but clearly they can make a TV that is 32 feet wide, 15 feet tall, and that weighs a literal friggin' TON. This is not some boutique cupcake bakery.

An old 2014 Business Insider article stated that:

"And for the more daring, Titan provides the full works, offering a completely customized display for "any shape or size required." They're not joking either, Titan's customized displays "include a waterproof Titan screen emerging from a swimming pool, curved screens for a super yacht sun deck, and a model custom designed for roof terraces."

They seem more than capable of making 8K displays if there was any demand for them among their elite clientele. This is a company that makes enormous waterproof TVs that rise from the depths of a swimming pool like 'ol Nessie herself. I would put nothing past them.

https://www.businessinsider.com/meet...inch-tv-2014-6

It's great that Sony offers a luxury jumbo TV up to 16K; when will you start schilling for it?

I am interested in 8K displays if they ever offer something more substantial than just an increase in resolution. What I am not under is any illusion that people want this tech, at least in its present form. I also need to see a lot of 8K content coming down the pipeline and I am not seeing anything other than youtube cat videos and drone flights. We don't even have any agreed upon 8K format standards.

What I am not interested in is buying a display that offers no real world benefits. I need to be able to see an impressive improvement both with the display and the real world content I watch with it. If all we get is the opportunity to upscale the resolution of our existing discs and streams, then no thanks.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, and something people don't realise about all them old 65mm and VistaVision epics is that the film stock of the time wasn't as sharp as what we have now. Some professionals have even said that the resolving power of today's 35mm is akin to 65mm from, say, 60 years ago, and with the grain in Lawrence of Arabia's 4K HDR looking very chunky and 35mm-ish I can believe it. The 10 Commandments is another example, despite being shot on 8-perf VV and having a 6K restoration there's only a tiny fraction of extra detail in the UHD vs the BD.

Also take into account that the camera lenses in that era varied greatly quality wise. I think the only people really clamoring for 8K is the gamer crowd. I’m a casual gamer at best. As a kid of the late 70s and early 80s I appreciate how far games have advanced but how much more realism do these games need. Even the latest consoles can barely deliver 4K at high frame rates consistently and some of the last generation video cards aren’t up to the task either. Let’s get 4K perfected before we jump the shark.

As an owner of a 8K eshiftX unit I’m not that excited for 8K content. I see little difference in my BDs compared to the UHDs resolution wise. The difference is more attributable to the wider color gamut and HDR.