8K discussion thread

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't just think it's about the will to do it (bearing in mind that a key 8K manufacturer stopped making BD players, as you noted), it's also the tech. Yes, the next next next gen codec will be even betterer at compression etc but I just cannae see them fitting 8K onto the current 100GB disc specs with anything like the quality it truly needs. 4K is pushing it as it is. I know you posted that link about the 128GB discs being ratified for 8K recording but that won't make a dent, as taping bit-starved OTA stuff with accordantly shitty audio is a different ball game.

You do have this 10 TB optical storage from 2018 news, as I totally agree with your assessment on the present media even using a forth layer is not terribly useful, just a band-aid. A future optical drive could possibly support this as well as read older formats. Keep watching, it won’t come quickly.

The new nano-optical long-data memory technology is based on a novel gold nanoplasmonic* hybrid glass matrix, unlike the materials used in current optical discs.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

You do have this 10 TB optical storage from 2018 news, as I totally agree with your assessment on the present media even using a forth layer is not terribly useful, just a band-aid. A future optical drive could possibly support this as well as read older formats. Keep watching, it won’t come quickly.

Dude, there's any number of miracle optical formats that have been mooted (and the even rarer ones have actually come to market ) in these last few years, but I refer you to what I wrote re: it being a "mass replication" format. These ^ things are intended for long-term storage, are made in very limited numbers and cost silly amounts of money, they're not intended for banging out tens of thousands of discs en-masse in the arse end of Mexico. I'm surprised no-one's mentioned OAD yet, I should scratch that off my "next gen optical disc formats" bingo card

My point is that it would be commercial suicide to invest (and it would take many, many millions of dollars) in an all-new mass replication format when all the while physical media is dying and the existing formats are "good enough" for like 90% of disc-buying consumers. You heard of those US replication plants closing, yes? It's not dead, not by a long chalk, but that same chalk has put the writing on the wall all the same.

Originally Posted by rachaeldeckard

Besides the technical issues the more important point is that there is simply no 8K content for them to sell you on a disc. People already complain about 2K upscales on 4K Blu-ray but at least they still get the benefit of HDR and WCG. The 8K format offers no other benefits besides upscaled resolution which the TVs can do themselves.

Like I keep saying 8K is only about new content delivered via broadcasting and streaming.

Well, yeah. That's what I've been saying over and over as well: when we consider that there is no "HDR 2" to put onto an 8K disc (PQ-derived HDR is already good for encoding BT.2020 colour and up to 10k nits) then where does that leave all this legacy 2K content? We got those HDR/WCG benefits already from putting them onto 4K disc so the added benefit of them being an extra extra upscaled version on a 8K disc ain't gonna fly. I'm sure we'll have lots more 8K content in years to come, but not from Hollywood for theatrical movies.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Where I see 8K being invaluable is for content like sports, nature and reality shows, etc. Here is where you want the images to look as close to real life as you possibly can.

And even with sports, due to motion blur, unless commercial motion estimation algorithms have gotten better (which AFAIK, they haven’t) there will not be that much of a picture quality gain with 8K @ 50/60 fps over that of 4K @ 50/60 fps except on anything but essentially static and wide establishing shots those of which you should see a noticeable difference in clarity.

Thusly, we really need full UHD (8K @100/120fps) for sports having players running, or otherwise moving fast along with camera pans to follow the action for I think many Joe6pack fans to really sit up and take notice and say, 'hey I gotta buy one of these new fangled TVs ASAP'.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I mean the royal you,

not 'royal', but you can call me Otis, since you’re one of the knights

[ray0414]

If there is ever an 8k format. I wonder if they will stop making 4k discs? Or stop making DVD or 1080P Blu rays? They surely could NEVER have 4 different disc formats for distribution. That would be madness and idiocy. I don't think it happens.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by ray0414

If there is ever an 8k format. I wonder if they will stop making 4k discs? Or stop making DVD or 1080P Blu rays? They surely could NEVER have 4 different disc formats for distribution. That would be madness and idiocy. I don't think it happens.

The #1 problem is that nearly every TV shows out there that consumers like and collect is not on 4K. This is the content outside movies that people watch most of the time during the week. Be it on DVD, ported or released on Blu-ray, there doesn't seem to be a compelling need to even put it out on 4K except for a few things by HBO. Also a lot of these shows are not available to streaming which makes buying discs more sustainable.

[JohnAV]

8K Explained: Everything You Need to Know About the 8K Resolution - IGN

According to the gamers perspective

Should I get an 8K display for TV and movies?
Short version: No, there’s almost no situation where you’d benefit by going above 4K, unless you put a very, very large TV into a very, very small room.

Should I get an 8K display for gaming?
Short version: No. 4K still challenges the best gaming hardware of today, and 8K will take way more processing power.

What about an 8K monitor?
Short version: You might benefit, but the hassle will likely outweigh the improvement.

But I really want 8K. What should I do?
Short version: Buy a primo 4K TV and upgrade your gaming hardware and media library instead.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by ray0414

If there is ever an 8k format. I wonder if they will stop making 4k discs? Or stop making DVD or 1080P Blu rays? They surely could NEVER have 4 different disc formats for distribution. That would be madness and idiocy. I don't think it happens.

And what are you going to put on those 8K discs? 99.9% of all content be it movies, TV shows etc. can't take advantage of 8K.

There is no way Hollywood is going to change to 8K for movies shown in theaters. Nor will the theater owners upgrade their equipment to 8K.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

And what are you going to put on those 8K discs? 99.9% of all content be it movies, TV shows etc. can't take advantage of 8K.

There is no way Hollywood is going to change to 8K for movies shown in theaters. Nor will the theater owners upgrade their equipment to 8K.

Those 8k projectors that are made by Delta go for $299,000 each.

Then there's the problem of getting 8k content to them and storing 8k content for duration of usage, all totally beyond any theater chain wants to deal with. No, 5G is not going to help.

[JohnAV]

INSANE 8K TRANSPARENT OLED TVs! | LG Display - YouTube

The author was going to just do a unboxing and review of the LG 65C9 4K OLED TV, so this includes going to this multi-level luxury store on the 5th floor where LG invited him to see the same model as well as other TVs like their transparent demo.

The London Harrods store showroom shown in this YouTube video reminds one of going to a art exhibit rather then just thinking of them as TV displays any more. Very impressive for a customer to take in.

[JohnAV]

8K TVs Are Coming: Here’s Everything You Need to Know About Buying One - Robb Report

A rushed authored article that actually had this written in.

Why Buy Now
Despite all the reasons to forego the tech, there are several arguments for investing in 8K. First, if you have yet to buy a 4K TV, it makes sense to skip that step and future-proof your living room by investing immediately in an 8K TV.

But it’s not just about the future—8K will also help you today. Because 8K TVs boast much more powerful processors than even 4K TVs, their images will look better immediately out of the box. This matters especially when you’re upscaling content. An 8K TV will upscale 1080p content better than a 4K TV will, and will also upscale 4K content to 8K. So, all images will simply look better on an 8K display than on a 4K.

The Sony ZG9’s X1 Ultimate processor will upscale 4K images to closer resemble 8K by using AI to read and analyze the images in real time, so even inferior pictures will look better and sharper on your wall-size screen. Blacks will be even blacker and colors brighter, offering up to twenty times the contrast of conventional LEDs.

Plus, they offer superior HDR (high-dynamic-range) capabilities. Compared to most TV’s that offer standard dynamic range, all 8K TVs come with some form of HDR. This affects both the contrast and brightness of an image. If you see two TVs side-by-side, the one with HDR will pop with much greater vitality. HDR imaging shines most notably on complex textures like skin, hair, foliage, wood and stone. The sheen of Simba’s fur in The Lion King may look more realistic than that of your German shepherd sleeping next to you.

He would make a scary salesman!

[rachaeldeckard]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

On a related note there was this article
Forget 8K, are you ready for 32K? - RedShark

Now that we have modular displays you can get as high a resolution as you want. You are only limited by the size of your wall. Now that there is a 32K display I'm sure someone will put together a 64K one next.

The question is is there any actual content at that resolution and is there a way to feed it natively to the display.

The article mentions they are working on 32K content but I imagine that is going to be computer generated since I am not aware of any 32K video cameras.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

8K TVs Are Coming: Here’s Everything You Need to Know About Buying One - Robb Report

A rushed authored article that actually had this written in.



He would make a scary salesman!

Nah. The best salespeople are the ones who can sell, not the ones who actually know about the product. I know this from personal experience, being one of the latter folks

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

8K Explained: Everything You Need to Know About the 8K Resolution - IGN

According to the gamers perspective

Cannot spell ignorance without IGN

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Nah. The best salespeople are the ones who can sell, not the ones who actually know about the product. I know this from personal experience, being one of the latter folks

ABSOLUTELY! Engineers stink as salespeople and salespeople stink as engineers!

Again from personal experience: 40 years in Sales.

[imsounoriginal]

I know the conversation about physical media on glass isn't totally new, but Variety has a piece on it that I figured was worth sharing:

Why Microsoft and Warner Bros. Archived the Original ‘Superman’ Movie on a Futuristic Glass Disc (EXCLUSIVE)

Microsoft has teamed up with Warner Bros. to store a copy of the 1978 movie “Superman” on a small glass disc about the size of a coaster. The collaboration, which will be officially unveiled at Microsoft’s Ignite 2019 conference in Orlando, Florida Monday, is a first test case for a new storage technology that could eventually help safeguard Hollywood’s movies and TV shows, as well as many other forms of data, for centuries to come.

[Geoff D]

Weird that they said it was 76GB though, did they store the compressed UHD disc encode rather than the actual digital master? The latter would run to many terabytes.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Weird that they said it was 76GB though, did they store the compressed UHD disc encode rather than the actual digital master? The latter would run to many terabytes.

At 76GB it's definitely a compressed version.

This appears to be a publicity stunt. The primary goal of Project Silica is to store data from the Cloud:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/rese...roject-silica/

[Geoff D]

Yeah, it's obvious it's just to grab a few headlines, in case anyone thinks this is where the future of consumer physical media is heading (the paths of glory lead but to the grave etc). As the article sez, it's just another method of long-term data storage that's being explored.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah, it's obvious it's just to grab a few headlines, in case anyone thinks this is where the future of consumer physical media is heading (the paths of glory lead but to the grave etc). As the article sez, it's just another method of long-term data storage that's being explored.

In it's current configuration it doesn't (IMO) seem to be very efficient: 76GB on 74 layers