The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Cook

I am confused by your post. Are you saying he was respectful or he wasn't? In my post I said he was respectful. I am well aware of the changes to the book, and I don't think any of them would have been as bad as having Sauron fight Aragorn. I like the movies, and I like the books. As a harry potter fan I have had to put up with some not so great adaptions so I am content with how Jackson handled LOTR.

If I understand your question: I am groaning about the changes Jackson almost made. Somethings he did, didn't seem to bother him, but apparently this one did.

I have said this endlessly here, but I will say it again: Some changes were appropriate in order to adapt it to film. Dropping Bombadil, for example. Speeding up slow points in the story. Not waiting 17 years after Bilbo leaves, etc.

Other changes, however, diminished the beauty of the story or even flat-out contradicted what Tolkien wrote. There are many odious and egregious examples, but the Witch-King/Gandalf thing is inexcusable. Not only is it beyond silly, but utter rubbish.

I would like to buy software to rip BDs and edit them, just to correct that part of ROTK.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by radagast

If I understand your question: I am groaning about the changes Jackson almost made. Somethings he did, didn't seem to bother him, but apparently this one did.

I have said this endlessly here, but I will say it again: Some changes were appropriate in order to adapt it to film. Dropping Bombadil, for example. Speeding up slow points in the story. Not waiting 17 years after Bilbo leaves, etc.

Other changes, however, diminished the beauty of the story or even flat-out contradicted what Tolkien wrote. There are many odious and egregious examples, but the Witch-King/Gandalf thing is inexcusable. Not only is it beyond silly, but utter rubbish.

I would like to buy software to rip BDs and edit them, just to correct that part of ROTK.

The EE ROTK had problems in general. It wasnt as smooth as the other EE's.

[Cook]

Edit:double post

[Uxi]

I kinda get where PJ was going with it but the Witch King vs Gandalf should have really been at the Gate of Gondor and it should have been in the theatrical. The extended scene has Gandalf apparently outmatched when they really didn't get to test as each are pulled from the open clash by other priorities.

I never minded dropping Bombadil, but the Scourge of the Shire is really necessary to show that the Shire couldn't escape the war unscathed.

[frogmort]

One continuity problem that bothers me is when Gandalf the White and the Witch King of Angmar meet, Gandalf's staff explodes(which is silly), but then later on at the Grey Havens, he still has the exact same staff.

[Falaskan]

I think it's ok in that scene. Since they are going on to the next life (Heaven) it represents that all things are restored in the next life.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

The other thing that REALLY bothered me was how they handled the ford scene... The White Horses

[Show spoiler] WERE NOT ARWEN'S MAGIC, IT WAS GANDALF'S!!!

I don't know why but that just irks the CRAP outta me... I did NOT like the change. I guess I just didn't like them making Arwen such a centralized important character...



That scene COULD HAVE BEEN epic... and I mean EPIC!

Yea this is the ONLY scene in the movie where I have to turn my head for a moment and look away is the line-

Arwen: [draws her sword] "If you want him, come and claim him!"



However I am glad that there is Baskshi's animated version that I can watch too. Yea I know...it has some serious problems also. But I still love that version too.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Michael Harper

I was looking at that picture with the fifteen discs, trying to figure out exactly whether or not the film will be split over two discs, and realised that just because there are so many discs, that doesn't mean it will:

Disc 01 - The Fellowship of the Ring
Disc 02 - Appendices Part 1
Disc 03 - Appendices Part 2
Disc 04 - Costa Botes Documentary 1
Disc 05 - The Fellowship of the Ring - Digital Copy
Disc 06 - The Two Towers
Disc 07 - Appendices Part 3
Disc 08 - Appendices Part 4
Disc 09 - Costa Botes Documentary 2
Disc 10 - The Two Towers - Digital Copy
Disc 11 - The Return of the King
Disc 12 - Appendices Part 5
Disc 13 - Appendices Part 6
Disc 14 - Costa Botes Documentary 3
Disc 15 - The Return of the King - Digital Copy

Kinda makes more sense in my opinion

The digital copies with the info we have right now (which could change) are not on disc, but will be downloaded with a code that comes in the box set.

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

Yea this is the ONLY scene in the movie where I have to turn my head for a moment and look away is the line-

Arwen: [draws her sword] "If you want him, come and claim him!"



However I am glad that there is Baskshi's animated version that I can watch too. Yea I know...it has some serious problems also. But I still love that version too.

I have Bakshi's version as well, and even then its not Glorfindel its Legolas that appears and carries Frodo to Rivendell... and I understand taking out Glorfindel. As much as I liked his character he was not essential to the story. But come on, the ford is just cheesy and a little overdone... I REALLY wish that would have been kept closer to the book.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

I think it's ok in that scene. Since they are going on to the next life (Heaven) it represents that all things are restored in the next life.

Huh? No one is going to the next life (Heaven). They are travelling to the Undying Lands (Valinor) in the West. It's an actual place, though only the Elves can navigate to it.

Someone needs to read The Silmarillion.

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Huh? No one is going to the next life (Heaven). They are travelling to the Undying Lands (Valinor) in the West. It's an actual place, though only the Elves can navigate to it.

Someone needs to read The Silmarillion.

Some of us struggle with the content on LotR and you're pushing the The Silmarillion?!?! Holy crap give us some time... Time TIME!!!

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

I always thought he really screwed up with the Witch King confrontation. Terrible scene in the film.

Agreed - I dont think for looking like such a bad ass that the WK ends up getting any good screen time. Seems like a high-ranking Orc at best. Bleh.

[threefiftyrocket]

so I realized recently that as long as I have owned the EE on DVD, I have never watched the special features... I started this weekend and have been pacing myself. I'm in the middle of The Appendices disc 3 and Oh MY all I can say is these truly are AMAZING! Really give you a new appreciation for the films and the books, really takes your appreciation to a completely different level.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

so I realized recently that as long as I have owned the EE on DVD, I have never watched the special features... I started this weekend and have been pacing myself. I'm in the middle of The Appendices disc 3 and Oh MY all I can say is these truly are AMAZING! Really give you a new appreciation for the films and the books, really takes your appreciation to a completely different level.

I hate to admit it, but I haven't watched them either. After reading through some of this thread lately, I decided to put them in my computer bag and watch them when travelling. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess.

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

I hate to admit it, but I haven't watched them either. After reading through some of this thread lately, I decided to put them in my computer bag and watch them when travelling. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess.

they are quite amazing... I wouldn't recommend the bonus features that came with the TE's those are mostly crap but these are just so saturated with info its amazing! I recommend HIGHLY even if one is just a casual Tolkien fan...

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

Yea this is the ONLY scene in the movie where I have to turn my head for a moment and look away is the line-

Arwen: [draws her sword] "If you want him, come and claim him!"

For the most part the movies are very well done, but they do have their awkward moments. Some of them, like the scene you mention, are indicative of an almost desperate attempt to get Arwen screen time and involved in action scenes at any cost.

Some of them are due to what appear to be plot holes that the writers didn't quite know how to fill, such as Merry and Pippin "just by coincidence" running into Frodo and Sam in Farmer Maggot's cornfield and somehow rolling down a hill onto a road where "just by coincidence" is - a Black Rider.

Some of them are due to the odd fashion in which characters or places are portrayed. For example, Lothlorien and Bree do not have anything close to the "feel" of the locations as indicated in the book. Bree and the Prancing Pony are certainly not the welcoming friendly locales described in the story. Lothlorien was Tolkien's vision of heaven on Middle-earth; the chapter "Lothlorien", especially when the Fellowship is at Cerin Amroth, is among the greatest of his literary accomplishments. In a letter he wrote to Milton Waldman, shortly after completing the book he wrote:

"Aragorn leads them on through Lorien, a guarded Elvish land - at which point I make the perilous and difficult attempt to catch at close quarters the air of timeless Elvish enchantment..."

As depicted in the movie, a more suitable adjective would be "frightening", at least until the day they leave.

Obviously, all of the situations (e.g. Tom Bombadil, barrow-wights, etc.) could not be put into the films, and the timeline as presented in the books would be a nightmare for anyone writing a screenplay. As I have stated previously, I am extremely happy the films were made and am in awe of the effort of the production staff. But overall, I think the movies suffer whenever Jackson and Boyens deviate from the original character and plot intentions of Tolkien.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Huh? No one is going to the next life (Heaven). They are travelling to the Undying Lands (Valinor) in the West. It's an actual place, though only the Elves can navigate to it.

Someone needs to read The Silmarillion.

I read parts of it, and I get what you're saying, but I still think it is a heaven type allegory.

[threefiftyrocket]

Oh I completely agree. These 3 films are by far my favorite films of all time. They have provided me with many many many hours of entertainment since seeing them all three in theaters three times each. In no way am I saying that they shouldn't have been made, I just think that SOME of the liberties taken were because they were lazy, or as you stated Grand Bob, that they were trying to FORCE a female lead to garner a female audience... I know PJ and everyone who worked on these films basically pulled off the impossible in filming them, and they did a WONDERFUL job of it too. And I also realize that not everything was going to be pulled off brilliantly. I just complain when I see something that deviates from the book when it didn't have to, or when they were trying to force something that shouldn't have been done. Other than that, I will celebrate these marvels for years to come, just as the novels have been celebrated for years.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

Other than that, I will celebrate these marvels for years to come, just as the novels have been celebrated for years.

Agreed.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

For the most part the movies are very well done, but they do have their awkward moments. Some of them, like the scene you mention, are indicative of an almost desperate attempt to get Arwen screen time and involved in action scenes at any cost.

Some of them are due to what appear to be plot holes that the writers didn't quite know how to fill, such as Merry and Pippin "just by coincidence" running into Frodo and Sam in Farmer Maggot's cornfield and somehow rolling down a hill onto a road where "just by coincidence" is - a Black Rider.

Some of them are due to the odd fashion in which characters or places are portrayed. For example, Lothlorien and Bree do not have anything close to the "feel" of the locations as indicated in the book. Bree and the Prancing Pony are certainly not the welcoming friendly locales described in the story. Lothlorien was Tolkien's vision of heaven on Middle-earth; the chapter "Lothlorien", especially when the Fellowship is at Cerin Amroth, is among the greatest of his literary accomplishments. In a letter he wrote to Milton Waldman, shortly after completing the book he wrote:

"Aragorn leads them on through Lorien, a guarded Elvish land - at which point I make the perilous and difficult attempt to catch at close quarters the air of timeless Elvish enchantment..."

As depicted in the movie, a more suitable adjective would be "frightening", at least until the day they leave.

Obviously, all of the situations (e.g. Tom Bombadil, barrow-wights, etc.) could not be put into the films, and the timeline as presented in the books would be a nightmare for anyone writing a screenplay. As I have stated previously, I am extremely happy the films were made and am in awe of the effort of the production staff. But overall, I think the movies suffer whenever Jackson and Boyens deviate from the original character and plot intentions of Tolkien.

Very good points as always Bob. And yes, I found the portrayal of Bree disappointing too.

Probably my greatest beef with these films is the overly Hollywood 'feel' (or maybe 'techniques' or 'style' is a better word) that they have in them. It just seemed like every now and then he relied on it too often, with one such example being the classic pullback to reveal the flying Nazgul for the very first time, when at the beginning the picture stayed on the rider for awhile to fool the audience into thinking that he was riding another horse. Whenever I watch that scene now I think to myself, "That was interesting the first time I saw it, however it's not really necessary any more. Please get on with it!". Which is also one of the reasons I still enjoy Bakshi's version too as it avoids this style altogether. And yes...I know that film has it's problems also.

Now obviously I still enjoy the films, specially FotR which I could probably watch once a week. And I can't wait to load that EE BD when I get it.


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