The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[MEB]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

Sorry, but that is wrong. The green/teal tint is present in every single screencapture that was posted. It's just that in many scenes it isn't that intrusive. Heavily blue tinted scenes just become a bit greener, heavily green tinted scenes barely show any difference and heavily red tinted scenes look more normal.

However, either here or at AVSForums someone posted a picture with 6 scenes from the film with 'regraded' colors and a comparison with the green intact and even those which were acceptable with the tint looked infinitely better without it.

So, regardless of how little the reviewers seem to be bothered, for me this is a clear indicator that something went wrong. No sane person would butcher their film like that.

+1000 on Karl's comments! My eyes say the ENTIRE movie has been re-graded with the teal/cyan tint. As he points out, it depends on the original color palette in a given scene whether or not the new teal/cyan tint looks incredibly objectionable, mildly objectionable, or not really all that noticeable at all.

Given the careful frame-by-frame, scene-by-scene color timing the original theatrical release received, the new teal/cyan tint on this new Blu-ray smacks of someone setting some master level of color change and leaving it that way through the entire re-grade.

Mark

[mredman]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

I dunno, all the screencaps I've seen in these reviews look exactly like what I watched on Tuesday night - so it definitely doesn't seem like there's any kind of problem exclusive to the BD. Without comparing to the originals, I really like the look of pretty much all those caps except the shot of the hobbits in the snow (the "what about breakfast?" scene). That has a distinct overcast of green which does look kind of odd to me (I noticed it on Tuesday as well). The shots on Caradhras look fine to me though (the snow looks white to me, sky looks blue too). Overall, I'm pleased with the image, so I will still buy.

Ok your post Aragorn actually proves that the version on the EE BD is the look of the movie PJ want it to look.

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

I'd have to double check, but I'm 98% sure it did

Ken just want to say remarkable work on the review of LOTR EE

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by Velmeran

Just curious, if/when Jackson makes a statement and says the color grading on the discs is exactly as he approved it? What then?

Then the debate can be more focused. Rather than debating the nature of the film's new appearance, people can simply discuss the idea of a filmmaker making revisions to a film after its original release.

Jackson definitely confirmed new color grading. But the green tint could be a production error or a part of that new color grading. As of now, the only confirmation that has been made is that color changes were made. Jackson and Lesnie haven't addressed the BD presentation as it appears on the retail discs. Which brings us to...

Originally Posted by Velmeran

Also, on the flipside, if/when Jackon makes a statement and says its incorrect, what then (more for those who don't have an issue with the color grading based on the reviews).

In this case, a disc exchange program would most certainly be initiated. The studios, Warner included, may be profit-driven companies, but they're also interested in satisfying their customer base. Studios have traditionally addressed most production errors that arise, in one way or another. Not always, mind you, but generally speaking (especially when it comes to major studios).

Only time and patience will tell if fans are given a single issue to debate (film revisionism) or given the opportunity to take advantage of an exchange program. I'm as curious as the next guy!

Either way, your purchase is secure. (Unless you loathe the color changes altogether, or take issue with the principle of what amounts to at-times drastic/dramatic new color timing.) If it is an error, you'll eventually get the discs you paid for through an exchange program. If there isn't an error, you'll have the version Jackson and Lesnie wanted everyone to have

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by mredman

Ok your post Aragorn actually proves that the version on the EE BD is the look of the movie PJ want it to look.

No, it confirms nothing. Color perception is so subjective that one's memory may play tricks here. If you want to believe that PJ wanted to have his film look like this, fine, be happy with it. I'm not and I'll continue to voice my opinion.

If I wanted something green I'd watch Shrek again.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by mredman

So my question to you did you read his review through because this is what he said:

Both Peter Jackson and director of photography Andrew Lesnie have confirmed that these sometimes drastic changes were intentional and were made under their supervision

I would remind you, though, that this is Peter Jackson's extended cut; he's always made it clear that his extended cuts are not his Director's Cuts, nor the versions of the films he considers canon or sacrosanct. They are meant to supplement, not supplant, the theatrical cuts. Lest we forget, the extended editions have been an exercise in revisionism since their inception. Seeing as the color changes weren't made to the theatrical versions last year -- effectively preserving Jackson's original vision -- that should take some of the sting out of the issue.

Which brings us to the doorstep of a more troubling, albeit less likely possiblity: that while Jackson and Lesnie did indeed make changes to the film's color timing and did indeed approve the subsequent transfer, something happened between the transfer leaving their offices and arriving on store shelves. A transfer isn't simply approved, dumped on a disc and issued to an adoring public. There are a number of steps in the post-filmmaker-approval process that could, hypothetically, lead to an error resulting in the kind of issue that's being discussed
Again, do I think it's likely in this case? I'm leaning towards "no,"


"Did you see LESS LIKELY and leaning towards no?"


Yes there is still doubt. but the doubt is 1%. And certain that the EE BD is the intended look is 99%

Don't forget to include the next part of my sentence, "I'm leaning towards no, but I keep waffling." My doubt is higher than 1%

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

No, it confirms nothing. Color perception is so subjective that one's memory may play tricks here.

My memory is not playing tricks. These shots are reflective of what I saw three days ago. I knew what to look for going in, and am 100% fully confident of what I saw color wise.

I believe that if there is a problem, it exists on the master - not just on the BD.

[42041]

Originally Posted by mredman

WTH are you even talking about. Nothing indicates that the EE BD is error. So the doubt of that is very small so 1% is the way it should be.

Aragorn here just confirmed that he saw it at the theater and it was the same as the screenshots here. so there basically is no doubt anymore and what you are seing on the EE BD is APPROVED by PJ.


You constantly resort to personal attacks and snark remarks. Really shows what a childish person you are. Please point out when i ever was disrespectful towards you.
You lash out just because i got a different opinion and thinks this new look is awesome and agree with PJ. That gotta stop!

Do you get some kind of kickback from WB for convincing people to buy this set? If you see no problem, then relax and wait for them to arrive, because I can tell you right now this is just going to go in circles until people get tired or some authoritative statement on the matter comes out.

[kpkelley]

Ken,

In regards to the color grading, Penton had made mention previously that color shifts, while seemingly drastic when comparing static images, aren't as jarring as other digital anomalies as the viewer's eyes will adjust to the image. Did you find that as you viewed Fellowhip your eyes adjusted to the new color timing and it wasn't as diverting?

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Don't forget to include the next part of my sentence, "I'm leaning towards no, but I keep waffling." My doubt is higher than 1%

lol. That seems to be a problem with people around here. Selectively using quotes or pieces of information out of context to prove their "point." It's nice when the person whose words are being quoted is here to prevent that from happening.

[jwoodwar]

Cant wait to get my copy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brightstar]

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

The Theatrical Edition looks better

[The Duke]

Originally Posted by merrick97

I want to thank Ken Brown for his excellent review and I very much appreciate his opinion on the subject. He was clearly more critical of the color changes than Bill Hunt or Robert Harris and that is his right and opinion.

I think Ken's review is the Mother of all Reviews, one of the best I've ever read. For me it wasn't whether he was critical or a fan of the color change, it was that he explained & detailed the results in great detail, unlike Mr. Hunt.

In other words, screenshots were exaggerated and it makes me as excited about this set as ever.

Well, like the screenshots of the first release of Gladiator you don't see the disappearing fireballs & flaming arrows with the BD in motion like you did the screenshots. But they did give a very good indication of the amount of DNR used, resulting in poor detail. And motion isn't going to make green snow & skies go away.

For those of you that are cancelling your preorders:

I hope you enjoy the DNR/EE riddled 480p dvds.

Ill be seeing and hearing these films in the absolute best possible quality!

And good for you. I have patience and am no hurry. I'll wait for confirmation that this is indeed the intended results, while I watch the price continue to fall. I'm in no mood to pay a premium for 9 DVDs that I already own. I may even wait for the standalone releases.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

Ken,

In regards to the color grading, Penton had made mention previously that color shifts, while seemingly drastic when comparing static images, aren't as jarring as other digital anomalies as the viewer's eyes will adjust to the image. Did you find that as you viewed Fellowhip your eyes adjusted to the new color timing and it wasn't as diverting?

That's honestly a bit tough for me to say, as I was so acutely aware and so actively evaluating the color shifts, new color timing and green/cyan tint for my review. Outside of a review setting, I'm sure my love of the films would have shone through. I did notice that it isn't as jarring in the fabric of the film as individual screenshots or single side-by-side comparisons might suggest, but I also noticed how dramatic the various differences were when I would switch between the TC version and the EE version. For instance, the snow-covered mountains and open sky aren't as distracting when the scenes that come before and after them are darker and have a penchant for the presiding green/cyan hues.

Ultimately, I think each person's take will be different, and it will all come down to personal preference, sensitivities and opinions on film revisionism. (Unless it is the result of a production error, of course.) That's why the "I'm right/you're wrong" arguments that are cropping up right now are problematic. Until Jackson or Lesnie issue a new statement, there is no absolute right or wrong on the issue. Just taste, opinion and (hopefully) civilized debate.

Hope that helps, even if only a bit

[Brightstar]

so everyone is cancelling there preorders becouse of this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwcm-...ature=youtu.be

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by joliefan

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

The Theatrical Edition looks better

If you look closely you can see that TE is oversharpened resulting in pixelation artifacts.

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=1#vergleich

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by The Duke

I think Ken's review is the Mother of all Reviews, one of the best I've ever read. For me it wasn't whether he was critical or a fan of the color change, it was that he explained & detailed the results in great detail, unlike Mr. Hunt.



Well, like the screenshots of the first release of Gladiator you don't see the disappearing fireballs & flaming arrows with the BD in motion like you did the screenshots. But they did give a very good indication of the amount of DNR used, resulting in poor detail. And motion isn't going to make green snow & skies go away.



And good for you. I have patience and am no hurry. I'll wait for confirmation that this is indeed the intended results, while I watch the price continue to fall. I'm in no mood to pay a premium for 9 DVDs that I already own. I may even wait for the standalone releases.

I cant argue with you on price. $83 is pretty expensive when it contains content that is just reprints from previous sets dvd.

Nevertheless, it seems that they got the most important parts of this set correct.

[nathan_393]

Originally Posted by mredman

Did you guys see this. Which actually puts to rest that there is an error with the EE BD.And the transfer on the discs IS the version PJ has approved

What would put it to rest is a statement from PJ or Lesnie on the issue, nothing less.

[MerrickG]

Are people seriously hanging their hopes on it "being an authoring error"?

Have a nice day everyone.




Now, if we could just convince Warner to put all those DVD extras onto one BD....

[Goldengirl]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Ken's review is the most thorough and considered that I have seen for any film. I don't have Fellowship yet, but the word that comes to my mind whenever I see any of the stills is "dull". The extra detail is great, but there is no more life or light in those scenes. The new color scheme was a bad decision. Rivendell has lost its magic; it is now "just another locale".

The same is true of Hobbiton.

[Brightstar]

The TE is more clear ohh man these are the best films ever made and they get treated like this !