The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

Isn't it likely that the digital copy is simply the old master used for the dvd? Does it have the new color timing, minus slight green tint - or does it just look like the old version?

Could very well be and that is a good question..........

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by frogmort

The more I keep researching and thinking about this, the more that I have come to believe that this has to be a mistake. I know that Peter Jackson and Andrew Lesnie did do some color grading changes to FotR, but there is a big difference between color grading, and tinting the entire movie a certain color. They are two different things.

Plus, if there was no problem at all, and this is how they intended it to look, I'm pretty sure that they would've come out very early on and said so, to stop all of this negative talk and complaining, which surely isn't going to help their sales numbers.

If people need to keep convincing themselves that it is perfect, to avoid having buyer's remorse, then that's fine with me, but I just can't accept that this is deliberate.

TE DVD
FOTR: No green tint
TTT: No green tint
ROTK: No green tint

EE DVD
FOTR: No green tint
TTT: No green tint
ROTK: No green tint

TE BD
FOTR: No green tint
TTT: No green tint
ROTK: No green tint

EE BD
FOTR: Green tint
TTT: No green tint
ROTK: No green tint

Hmmmm.....

Throw in the digital copy on this new release that has no green tint (but which could be the old master for some reason which is still to be determined) and it fuels the error side of the debate even further.

I just hope we get some sort of official statement one way or the other in the next week or two as I am sick of dwelling on all of this, lol. Looking forward to some resolution one way or the other so we can put this all to bed.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I'm still getting this on Tuesday. If the color change is a mistake and there's eventually a replacement program, fine. If the color change isn't a mistake, I can still enjoy the upgrade in PQ over the theatrical FOTR Blu-ray and learn to live with the coloring (nothing I've seen so far looks terrible, just different).

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

I hear you........its crazy.

Why would they not put the green tint in the digital copy as well IF it is truly intentional? This only supports the error side of the debate even further.

It's either an error or rush job on behalf of WHV. Not that I am trying to justify the green, but maybe they never got around to making a new digital copy of the new transfer. Either way, it screams "lazy."

Remember... these Blu Rays were announced only earlier this year, long after the Star Wars Blu Rays were announced, and it's very likely these were rushed to put on sale as to not compete with some of the other big titles coming this Fall. They probably thought everything looked "good enough" and "good enough" is exactly the argument some people are making to justify the new tint. To each their own, but for the kind of money I am spending on this set, I was expecting a near flawless transfer. I am not paying this kind of money for DVD extras I already own. That's for sure.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

It's either an error or rush job on behalf of WHV. Not that I am trying to justify the green, but maybe they never got around to making a new digital copy of the new transfer. Either way, it screams "lazy."

Remember... these Blu Rays were announced only earlier this year, long after the Star Wars Blu Rays were announced, and it's very likely these were rushed to put on sale as to not compete with some of the other big titles coming this Fall. They probably thought everything looked "good enough" and "good enough" is exactly the argument some people are making to justify the new tint. To each their own, but for the kind of money I am spending on this set, I was expecting a near flawless transfer. I am not paying this kind of money for DVD extras I already own. That's for sure.

It could simply be that they were lazy or did not have time to do a digital copy of the "new" version as you say, but either way this is not going to help kill the debate since it certainly could be used as even more evidence that this green tint is indeed an error..........who knows........I wish we did for sure one way or the other!

[Ssnake]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

VERY interesting info just posted by Kris Deering about the digital copy of the EE blu release.........

The obvious question is WHY does the digital copy not have this green tint while the actual blu ray does?

I think the question that needs to be addressed is why you quoted Kris out of context.

Here is the full quote:

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

So out of curiosity I just looked at the digital copy that came with the new EE editions and looked at the screenshot that is being referenced a few posts above this along the mountain. The digital copy looks like the original, with no blue cast.

Honestly, I like the new edition. The colors have a more striking quality when you watch the feature and it gives the image more contrast compared to the more blown out look of the original. I can honestly see why Peter would have changed it. The only think I find objectionable to that scene in general is when Boramear (misspelled) is holding the ring on the chain and looking at it. You can see a bit of color bleed on his stray hairs above his head. They look a bit cyan, even compared to the sky.

I still think most will LOVE this new transfer, it really is a huge improvement over the TE BD release.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

VERY interesting info just posted by Kris Deering about the digital copy of the EE blu release.........



The obvious question is WHY does the digital copy not have this green tint while the actual blu ray does?

Because the digital copy is the DVD version

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Ssnake

I think the question that needs to be addressed is why you quoted Kris out of context.

Here is the full quote:

I dont see the relevance of his personal opinion as far as the color goes in regard to why the digital copy does not have the green tint which is what I was trying to focus on. That is why I did not include his entire post/comment. For the purpose of this discussion, his opinion of the color(or mine, yours or anyone else for that matter) has no purpose. No matter if you hate or love the green tint, why does the digital copy not have it IF this is truly how it is meant to be seen? It could be something as simple as them using the old transfer and being lazy, OR it could be evidence that the green tint is indeed an error........we dont know for sure either way so let the new point of speculation begin!

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by aiman04

I don't really trust screenshots myself, but again Ken Brown himself has said that the green tint is there the whole movie (though different scenes may not be so noticeable), I trust his opinion as you would trust Bill Hunt and Robert Harriss.

Now I'm just trying to find out the truth. I live in Malaysia but I always buy from US or UK as my local releases are usually very low in overall quality. If I can easily have the disc to see it with my own eyes I would do so. It's not easy to return the disc and should there be a disc exchange program I'm sure it will not include international customers. So I need to make sure before I make the purchase, and these conflicting reports aren't really assuring. Guess I still have to wait then.

Well, hold on - these aren't conflicting reports, are they? Everyone who's seen the discs say that they're fine. The only people citing problems are going by screenshots and youtube videos. If you accept that the proof is in the pudding, as they say, there's no cause for alarm. If it hadn't been for these screenshots, all the reports you'd be hearing now would be glowing. And if you won't accept these first-hand accounts, what's ever going to sort this out for you? A screenshot that shows no-such disastrous green tint? Haven't we already had a few of those?

Penton-Man, in response to citing Bill Hunt - let's not allow any mission creep. The fact is, the original allegations are not subtle. I mean, the controversial screen and video grabs show an image that is layered with a thick green murk. I'd imagine that'd be easily within anyone's remit to spot. Bill knows what's being alleged, he's seen the discs and he doesn't see the problem. He's got no vested interest in denying or affirming.

Nor does it affirm anything that people who went to the screening saw no murky green tint; as those who have seen the discs are saying - guess what? That there's no murky green tint!So how does this advance your case? Why should they say they're looking into something when there's nothing to look into? When Jackson and his DP have actually said this is how they want the films to look? Would Sony do anything different?

I don't have much sympathy for this argument, usually, but I can really imagine the BD departments just despairing at these kind of mass-hysterics. It devalues all the occasions when there is something seriously wrong. There is a lean to cyan in the grading but that appears to be the Director's choice. Does somebody want to go back and re-grade FIGHT CLUB or ALIEN 3 or any one of Fincher's movies?

The grading on LORD OF THE RINGS is not subtle and it never was. It's a product of the digital age and not by any means a flawless one. That grading no-doubt covered a multitude of CGI sins. Someone asked if we wouldn't rather be without it? Well, yes - I would. But that's a matter of aesthetics, of artistic choice; it's not a flaw in the transfer to BD.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by Ssnake

I think the question that needs to be addressed is why you quoted Kris out of context.

Here is the full quote:

The point Todd Smith was making was that the digital copy did not reflect the new color timing. The second half of the quote he omitted has nothing to do with the digital copy revelation and everything to do with the quoted author's subjective opinion on the new color timing. How exactly do you figure the quote was taken out of context? Todd never said the author of that quote hated the new color timing of the Blu Rays...

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by vidjunkie

Gotta love it, when people only quote what they need, to make their own point of view valid, Thank you very much Ssnake for posting the entire post, much better reading it in its entirety.

Read my post above...........that was certainly NOT my intention. His opinion (or mine, yours, etc.....) had no relevance to the topic I was focused on which is why I left it out.

Originally Posted by greg_achen

The point Todd Smith was making was that the digital copy did not reflect the new color timing. The second half of the quote he omitted has nothing to do with the digital copy revelation and everything to do with the quoted author's subjective opinion on the new color timing. How exactly do you figure the quote was taken out of context? Todd never said the author of that quote hated the new color timing of the Blu Rays...

Thank you.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

The point Todd Smith was making was that the digital copy did not reflect the new color timing. The second half of the quote he omitted has nothing to do with the digital copy revelation and everything to do with the quoted author's subjective opinion on the new color timing. How exactly do you figure the quote was taken out of context? Todd never said the author of that quote hated the new color timing of the Blu Rays...

Digital copy is the DVD version. They are always DVD versions. I have never gotten a digital copy for a movie that was 1080p have you?

That is why the Digital copy does not have the tint it is the DVD version that was never changed with the new color timing

[Ispoke]

Originally Posted by mredman

Because the digital copy is the DVD version

Certainly is my understanding of digital copy. The only digital copy I used was from Star Trek BD and was shocked when it turned out to be of DVD resolution

After reading up on digital copy discovered in general they just port a DVD version for the copy so it's playable on other multimedia devices.

[Illy Scorsese]

Now even the Digital copy doesn't match?... lolololololololololololololol

Seroiusly, are we still debating whether there has been a botch job?

What more do you need????

The fact that there hasn't been a officail statement was all you needed to know... But seriously, how can you even question it now.

LOL @ "Well maybe they just used the old master for the digital copy".

The funniest thing about that would be that that in itself is another botch by WHV.

IT NEVER ENDS!!! Why can't they get the release of this film right?

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by mredman

Digital copy is the DVD version. They are always DVD versions. I have never gotten a digital copy for a movie that was 1080p have you?

That is why the Digital copy does not have the tint it is the DVD version that was never changed with the new color timing

A digital copy could have easily been made from the new master. The original DVD version was taken from a high def master as well and then down-converted. Basically you are saying that you agree WHV was too lazy/cheap to do a new digital copy reflecting the new "superior" color timing. That gives me a lot of faith.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by mredman

Digital copy is the DVD version. They are always DVD versions. I have never gotten a digital copy for a movie that was 1080p have you?

That is why the Digital copy does not have the tint it is the DVD version that was never changed with the new color timing

Makes sense to me, but I know nothing about digital copies as I have never used one or had any interest. That would certainly explain why the digital copy does not have the green tint and would at the same time kill any further fuel for the debate if this is how digital copies truly work.

Originally Posted by greg_achen

A digital copy could have easily been made from the new master. The original DVD version was taken from a high def master as well and then down-converted. Basically you are saying that you agree WHV was too lazy/cheap to do a new digital copy reflecting the new "superior" color timing. That gives me a lot of faith.

Nevermind my comment above then in this same post..............I guess the debate goes on as far as this goes.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

A digital copy could have easily been made from the new master. The original DVD version was taken from a high def master as well and then down-converted. Basically you are saying that you agree WHV was too lazy/cheap to do a new digital copy reflecting the new "superior" color timing. That gives me a lot of faith.

yes they were to lazy and they still are. Thats why all the extra discs are just the DVD's from the old DVD set of EE. Its the same with the Ultimate Editions of Harry Potter they also just stuck the bonus DVD discs in there from the DVD releases of the potter movies. its the same here. So yes the digital copy is just a copy from the old EE DVD. Digital copies has always only been DVD format quality. He only went in and changed the transfer for a HD master of FOTR

[Illy Scorsese]

Oh boy, here we go...

For days people have been asking people to check their digital copy...

Someone finally does and reports the difference...

So now we go into dismissing the digital copy "mode". lol

I swear this is the DNR refusal all over again... It's hilarious to see this whole thing happen again.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Illy Scorsese

Oh boy, here we go...

For days people have been asking people to check their digital copy...

Someone finally does and reports the difference...

So now we go into dismissing the digital copy "mode". lol

I swear this is the DNR refusal all over again... It's hilarious to see this whole thing happen again.

Yes, hilarious and sad, at the same time.

[Larkitect]

Originally Posted by chip75

The Amazon thing is odd as it's come and gone and come back again. Usually there's a sidenote saying they've been informed about a problem with the discs (usually by a member of the public) and they're looking into the situation before they proceed with sales.

I'm gutted we have chunky blue Amaray's instead of the fantastic black cases you guys in the US have had.

Out of curiosity has anyone checked their digital copies to see the quality of them? Are they in 2 parts for each film or edited into one?

was looking for "Legend of the Fist: The Return of Chen Zhen" at Best Buy yesterday and found the EE box set on the shelf. didn't think they'd sell it but they did. didn't think the DC would activate early but they did.

anyway, to answer you, each movie is one file.

and i haven't done any direct comparison but it looks more like the TE than the EE BD in terms of the color timing.

sorry if this has all been hashed out, i've been skipping around a lot in this thread today (i forgot i actually had an account registered). as a lurker this has been very entertaining. but in a good way.