The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by Gremal

Fine. They announced an exchange program. There is no exchange program for LotR.

There's no exchange program for LOTR today.

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

Yeah, I think you're right, WorkShed. My digital copy does look a bit less green than the Blu does. Interesting.

When you look at the mountain scene (where Frodo trips and the ring falls in the snow to be picked up by Boromir), is your snow pure white? I really have been having a hard time distinguishing any difference between the DC and the previous EE DVD.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

OK, I have just finished watching the first disc (I only watch one EE disc per day). I was initially thrilled to see the wonderful definition of this new edition, as well as hear the improvement in sound, as Ken noted in his review. For example, I had never previously noticed the perspiration on Bilbo's head during his farewell speech (disc time 25:18) or details such as the fiery inscription on the Ring (example disc times 34:10 and 37:36). Absolutely marvelous increase of detail.

Let me also say that those who have not repeatedly seen the movies will probably never notice the new tint and change in contrast. Those who have seen it often (I have seen Fellowship a minimum of 50 times) most certainly will.
It varied from a mild distraction to a persistent annoyance. There were times that I was so enamoured with the extra detail in the film that I did not notice it at all. A few notes based on the disc times:

08:15 Title frames; tint noticeable, but not bad.
10:00 Sam's first appearance - distracting green highlights in his hair.
12:09 "Flower field" shot of the Shire; noticeably darker than the original and tinted.
16:30 The paint on the walls at Bag End has a noticeable difference in tint; not annoying, but "odd" compared to the original.
19:50 The "life" has been drained out of the sky with Gandalf and Bilbo blowing smoke rings at sunset. This was true for many scenes, especially in the Shire and at Rivendell.
35:15 The "Gaffer sequence" at the Green Dragon; hair and facial details of the characters are noticeably teal tinted.
38:20 Conversation between Gandalf and Frodo oddly colored, not necessarily distracting, but different.

As the movie progressed to the darker locations, I thought the tint/contrast change would not be as prevalent. I was wrong.

48:50 Teal cast to the inside of Orthanc; odd, not bad.
49:25 Saruman's hair and robe noticeably teal; distracting.
55:38 Hobbits in woods hiding from Black Rider; teal cast.
57:50 Frodo's conversation with the Bree gatekeeper; noticeable teal shadow highlights to face.
1:07:36 Midgewater marsh haze is teal.
1:15:55 Moth shadow highlights at Isengard are teal.
1:24:15 Frodo awakens to teal highlights at Rivendell.
1:33:20 Boromir/Aragorn introduction sequence; heavily shaded teal.
1:36:10 Aragorn/Arwen on bridge at night; ditto
1:36:35 to 1:37:00 Notice the garish teal highlights in the shadow detail on Arwen's face. I found this particularly annoying.


I won't bother adding more, as I think you get the point. Much of the new coloration I will be able to get used to through repeated exposure. But some of it is just downright bad, not a "devil's mirk" as Elfhelm would describe in "The Ride of the Rohirrim". But Arwen's movie line that "the shadow does not hold sway" is not longer true. It does, and it is a teal shadow.

Ahhh...Bob...

I wanted to here your opinion on the horrible }}}black crush{{{ found in the Moria sequences, pretty much ruining that part of the movie.




Well it looks like Stinky-Dinkins gave a great accounting of that issue.

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

What is worse than I expected, though, are the contrast issues. Blacks are crushed horribly. It's particularly evident in places like Moria with enormous swathes of fine detail being lost entirely. I actually took the film out at one point and took it to a tiny (relatively speaking) set downstairs (a professionally calibrated XBR960 HD CRT) that is renowned for its black level performance - specifically to guage the amount lost in these scenes. It is absurdly noticeable. Blacks are crushed.

I HATE Black-Crush...HATE IT!!!!!



.

[DarkDune]

Originally Posted by Gremal

You misunderstood the post. I'm suggesting the green tint may be intentionally applied to make future versions of the release more appealing, resulting in better sales. In order for an exchange program, the studio must admit that the existing version is defective. That is not the case here.

Not yet.

When mistakes are made -- after realizing there was an issue -- usually a period of quiet follows. They probably want to see how many discs are sold, then they can decide how cost-effective it would be to make a replacement Blu.

In terms of "green". Some people are more sensitive to green tints than others. Some people actually "feel" sick when too much green tint is there. Try changing the Hue further toward green on your TV, and see how you "feel"

I bet this was a big mistake, and WB is trying to figure out what happened, and what to do next.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

Well, that's a horse of a different color. Mine, which was downloaded yesterday on iTunes through the code, has the colors that are very similar to the original EE DVD.

Honestly, yours has the teal snow?! When and where did you download it?

I wish I could take a screenshot of it, but the copy protection is not cooperating with me. I would take a shot off a camera, but I am afraid I would be stoned to death for it!!

You bring up a good point with the picture. Where are all the screams of agony regarding the tinting of The Wizard of OZ? They couldn't keep the horse the SAME COLOR. And that's not even counting the weird sepia tone in the first several minutes of the movie.

[DarkDune]

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

Yeah, I think you're right, WorkShed. My digital copy does look a bit less green than the Blu does. Interesting.

For X-mas gives them time

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Velmeran

Jackson intentionally left it out because he felt it would be "confusing to the viewers".

Not sure why it would have been confusing for Glamdring and the other weapons made in the elder days for the elf-lords to have their glow; and yet not for Sting.

As for missing in the 2nd part of Moria, that is a mistake that's yet to be caught and/or rectified.

You're right! Jackson "dumbed down" the movie because he thought the audience was stupid.

[dwesson]

I just wanted to pop in to say that I've had the opportunity to check out the most prominent scenes on both the BD and the DC and to my eyes, in motion, neither has an overly green or blue look to it. During the scenes with snow, especially when Frodo drops the ring/Boromir picks it up and during the Second Breakfast scene, the snow looks white as it should and the sky looks blue as it should. Now, when you pause on certain frames, perhaps you can see that the color has been altered, but not in motion, at least not for me. The only thing I notice is that some scenes appear a bit darker than I remember them being, but it's not a look that bothers me. Honestly, if I had never read anything in this thread before watching the new disc, I would have never even thought about it.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by radagast

You bring up a good point with the picture. Where are all the screams of agony regarding the tinting of The Wizard of OZ? They couldn't keep the horse the SAME COLOR. And that's not even counting the weird sepia tone in the first several minutes of the movie.

Oh that's all been "fixed" in the "new" edition.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

Not yet.

When mistakes are made -- after realizing there was an issue -- usually a period of quiet follows. They probably want to see how many discs are sold, then they can decide how cost-effective it would be to make a replacement Blu.

In terms of "green". Some people are more sensitive to green tints than others. Some people actually "feel" sick when too much green tint is there. Try changing the Hue further toward green on your TV, and see how you "feel"

I bet this was a big mistake, and WB is trying to figure out what happened, and what to do next.

We've agreed before and we'll agree again. Seeing how long it took to get two sentences officially from the PR person from WHV, I think they are trying to figure out what the problem is and what can be done. I know I'm assuming there is a problem but given PJ's prior releases of other films and the appearance of Fellowship compared to the other two films in the trilogy, it doesn't add up that this was all intentional.

I boosted the reds on my TV and found it to be a far more pleasant experience. It also brought a lovely blue to the night scenes. Buckleberry Ferry looked rather gorgeous, despite the contrast issues.

I know a lot of people aren't having issues. However, green is easily misinterpreted by the eye. Some of the people not seeing the tint issue might literally not be able to see the tint. It doesn't mean it isn't there. That's why the Photoshop analysis is valuable, in my opinion, because it showed graphically and numerically that there is a tint and that the white levels are lowered throughout the entire length of the film.

Originally Posted by greg_achen

Oh that's all been "fixed" in the "new" edition.

I don't see the difference. I'll have to see it in motion!

Just kidding guys, no reason to attack.

[JTStarkiller]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

When you look at the mountain scene (where Frodo trips and the ring falls in the snow to be picked up by Boromir), is your snow pure white? I really have been having a hard time distinguishing any difference between the DC and the previous EE DVD.

It does look pretty white indeed (and the sky nice and blue). I haven't gotten to that part yet on Blu, I stopped at the end of disc 1, but yeah, it doesn't look like any green has been applied to it.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by CF FilmFan

This is very enlightening, thanks for the link. I understand their intent now, although I don't agree with thier decision on how DG was applied to the film. Arguably some scenes look impressive with digital grading techniques applied. Other ungraded scenes I saw during the video look more natural/filmic...and much better without DG. It seems they applied their color filters to the entire FOTR motion picture, when they could have (should have?) applied it to specific sections only.

Just an opinion...the love the films and the new EEs.

FYI. I added this edit to the post you quoted.

EDIT: This video is included only to make the point that Jackson's objective to "nudge the movie "sideways" from the reality of New Zealand toward the mythic land and time of Middle Earth was not achieved in 2001, hence the second, more successful attempt with the changes to the new release. Please don't dwell on the techniques they used at the time in their attempt accomplish that goal.

[amoergosum]

Originally Posted by TheZoof

Now there is clearly a change in color however notice the clarity of detail in the hills and trees. The shadows and clarity are much improved.

...in a way that there's loss of shadow detail in the EE.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

FYI. I added this edit to the post you quoted.

EDIT: This video is included only to make the point that Jackson's objective to "nudge the movie "sideways" from the reality of New Zealand toward the mythic land and time of Middle Earth was not achieved in 2001, hence the second, more successful attempt with the changes to the new release. Please don't dwell on the techniques they used at the time in their attempt accomplish that goal.

The problem is that they are using the same techniques. Digital Grading is the same in theory as what was used ten years ago. I'm sure there's a few more tools in the toolbox, though.

However, applying a blanket filter is a much older technique, so I don't understand that being something that couldn't have been done in 2001 and only in 2011.

[Kingmob]

Originally Posted by Velmeran

Jackson intentionally left it out because he felt it would be "confusing to the viewers".

Not sure why it would have been confusing for Glamdring and the other weapons made in the elder days for the elf-lords to have their glow; and yet not for Sting.

As for missing in the 2nd part of Moria, that is a mistake that's yet to be caught and/or rectified.

If I remember correctly, Jackson said in one of the commentaries that the reason Glamdring doesn't glow was simply because of time & money, plus I believe that the overall theme of the movies were to remain "Frodocentric," explaining Glamdring's glow sort of takes away from that (besides there is plenty of exposition in the books). Glamdring is my favorite LOTR sword; a great example of it's glow can be found when Gandalf energizes his sword with lightning before delivering the final blow to the Balrog. This is one of my favorite scenes. Throughout the movies Gandalf pulls Glamdring a good bit, adding the glow would take probably more effort than what they wanted to do a few years ago. When Glamdring is pulled, it appears very shiny, but I still wished the glow was added, even though I understand why it wasn't. That could be said about so many things when it comes to LOTR.

[Resettito]

Got the French version (not like there's a difference but still), I've watched the first BR of The Fellowship Of The Ring, and there is absolutely NO green tint, not like I was really looking for it, but I paid attention, especially during the infamous fade to white in Rivendell which some claim is now a fade to green.

Now I dont know if the settings on one's TV or projector could have such an incidence, but I'm watching this on a Sony Bravia HW10 (1080p), praised for its filmic quality and natural colors, and there is no such thing as a fade to green, it is properly white ; so right until here, I'm really wary of everything I read here, which turns out for me (if anyone doubts my word) to be utter bull.

Since I'm not the only one who says that there is no green tint (where did those screenshots came from?), I guess this problem has really been over exaggerated and is non existent (unless your video set is not properly calibrated).

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by Resettito

Got the French version (not like there's a difference but still), I've watched the first BR of The Fellowship Of The Ring, and there is absolutely NO green tint, not like I was really looking for it, but I paid attention, especially during the infamous fade to white in Rivendell which some claim is now a fade to green.

Now I dont know if the settings on one's TV or projector could have such an incidence, but I'm watching this on a Sony Bravia HW10 (1080p), praised for its filmic quality and natural colors, and there is no such thing as a fade to green, it is properly white ; so right until here, I'm really wary of everything I read here, which turns out for me (if anyone doubts my word) to be utter bull.

Since I'm not the only one who says that there is no green tint (where did those screenshots came from?), I guess this problem has really been over exaggerated and is non existent (unless your video set is not properly calibrated).

I would love to see some shots. Again, I doubt that a calibration issue is present when I watch Fellowship considering Two Towers looks perfect and I don't have to modify any settings.

[BluJay75]

Does anyone know if the DIGITAL COPIES of the new Extended Trilogy are the same Extended versions or just the Theatrical versions??? Thanks!

[Resettito]

A shot can never truly show what one really sees live. It will never look the same, not even close.

[MEB]

Originally Posted by Resettito

Now I dont know if the settings on one's TV or projector could have such an incidence, but I'm watching this on a Sony Bravia HW10 (1080p), praised for its filmic quality and natural colors, and there is no such thing as a fade to green, it is properly white ; so right until here, I'm really wary of everything I read here, which turns out for me (if anyone doubts my word) to be utter bull.

Sony TVs are famous for having a red push. (Don't believe me, just Google "Sony TV Red Push".) A red push would help to mask a green tint. Red & green are opposite each other on the color wheel.



If you haven't had your Sony calibrated to eliminate its red push the FOTR EE will have less green tint on your TV but other movies will be too red.

Mark

[Resettito]

Originally Posted by MEB

Sony TVs are famous for having a red push. (Don't believe me, just Google "Sony TV Red Push".) A red push would help to mask a green tint. Red & green are opposite each other on the color wheel.



If you haven't had your Sony calibrated to eliminate its red push the FOTR EE will have less green tint on your TV but other movies will be too red.

Mark

No red push unfortunately for those who wish to undermine my opinion ^^